Incarnates and power level arms race
By
Anti_Proton,
Posted on: 2011-03-02 10:22 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Bounder
Take at look at Apex and Tin Mage
That is almost exactly what it is.
You are now and incarnate, embuded with power from the well of the furies itself. Blessed by whatever in the world first gave you those abilities you started off with.
You have faced off against lvl 50 mobs with ease before your new level.
You have reached a new level of power... now....
Go face off against some low life fools who happen to be 4 levels higher than you are!
Ps: Good Luck and happy Incarnatedom to you
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You have no idea how close you are with this | I hope the challenges for raid size teams will be things like 80 ft tall robots rampaging though Steel Canyon |
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| Now, I have gained incarnate power, yeah! Now lets see what I can do.. and the hardest challenges, now that I'm more powerful.. need 23 to 47 other heroes (or whatever the raid, er leagues will hold). |
I've said this loads of times before but at our CURRENT level of incarnation we will need help in taking on some of the newer challenges. Dare i say it, but i'ld say a team of 8 could do the new trial with 1 or 2 new incarnate levels then a team of 16 which will struggle. Its all about the enemy uppin their game to face THEIR new more powerfull enemy [us].
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I feel much the same way, and an "arms race" is a good way to put it. What I tend to dislike about most traditional RPGs is that they're so designed that you slowly fall behind the power curve and need more and more help to do less and less. I know the story tries to convince us that we're stronger really, really hard, but the fact remains that everything only gets more and more difficulty and requires more and more people.|
Originally Posted by Bounder
It seems to me that in a way we may actually end up feeling less powerful as superheroes as we gain incarnate power.
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"Show, don't tell." I'm being told I'm stronger, but I don't see it. I don't "feel" it. It just feels like my enemies are racing ahead of me.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I said it once, i'll say it again. I think it's about the effects of our powers. They need to look and feel more powerful.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I feel much the same way, and an "arms race" is a good way to put it. What I tend to dislike about most traditional RPGs is that they're so designed that you slowly fall behind the power curve and need more and more help to do less and less. I know the story tries to convince us that we're stronger really, really hard, but the fact remains that everything only gets more and more difficulty and requires more and more people.
"Show, don't tell." I'm being told I'm stronger, but I don't see it. I don't "feel" it. It just feels like my enemies are racing ahead of me. |
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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I can haz giant robot robot battles nao, plz? |
Originally Posted by Bounder
I hope the challenges for raid size teams will be things like 80 ft tall robots rampaging though Steel Canyon, cars and buildings burning and civilians fleeing underfoot.. truly the next level in threats. |
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Can I haz destructible instanced missions plz? |
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
I can haz giant robot robot battles nao, plz?
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Which ignores that the enemies you just left behind are now substantially weaker. So, when 6 months from now we see a substantial number of people soloing TFs and AVs who used to feel almost impossible now seem trivia, I guess folks still won't feel like they've gotten any stronger.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I feel much the same way, and an "arms race" is a good way to put it. What I tend to dislike about most traditional RPGs is that they're so designed that you slowly fall behind the power curve and need more and more help to do less and less. I know the story tries to convince us that we're stronger really, really hard, but the fact remains that everything only gets more and more difficulty and requires more and more people.
"Show, don't tell." I'm being told I'm stronger, but I don't see it. I don't "feel" it. It just feels like my enemies are racing ahead of me. |
Sure, people will be doing minimum team size runs of B.A.F. and Lambda with ease, the formerly +4 NPCs now at +1, but I guess folks won't feel any stronger then either.
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I suppose I should have gotten my first alpha slot slotted and tried the new content first, sounds like they are gonna be on the right track, and replies here are calming my fears. 
It is still a danger though, a challenge for any game designer when you have to keep upping the scale of things, and I'm still wondering what they will give us to fight if they make use of the upper end of the league team size limit, with a big feel and also hopefully use plots other than the well of the furies. I hope they think big in visual feel and not just in numbers was my real fear.
Anyway, off to work towards getting my first Cardiac and see what we have now at least.
And that robot pic above is great!
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Yeah, I'll feel stronger, you are correct.. as long as they do not put those same TF foes and AVs in the new missions with them now suddenly stronger as well, that is my fear. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
So, when 6 months from now we see a substantial number of people soloing TFs and AVs who used to feel almost impossible now seem trivia, I guess folks still won't feel like they've gotten any stronger.
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I want them to come up with new challenges that feel like they need the new incarnate power heroes, and hopefully not just say that many our old foes are now also incarnate powered and even more of a match for us. (since some teams will be even bigger now with the new league system, they would seem to have gained even more power than we did since our last encounters)
Give us new, big things to fight so we feel like we are making progress. Things visually large especially, things that you take one look at 'em and you know that is raid caliber.
So basically, if they are going to add raid (league) content soon with issue 20 and beyond, we would like very raid like opponents, not just the same old thing with bigger numbers.
Understandable fear.
If we are going to have the ability to field 40 + incarnates on one team, then you know they are going to use it. And yes, that many incarnates should have something truly cosmic to fight a la Unicron instead of a Tyrant or Recluse or other old threats who managed to still somehow stay the same distance ahead of us in power levels.
Agreed.
Giant robots (larger than the War Walkers) will only happen if and well the devs solve the problem of targeting extremely large entities. We know they're working on it, at least.
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We already know we'll become more powerful than Recluse eventually, and Tyrant in his current form (which we have yet to even see) is not an old threat.
| If we are going to have the ability to field 40 + incarnates on one team, then you know they are going to use it. And yes, that many incarnates should have something truly cosmic to fight a la Unicron instead of a Tyrant or Recluse or other old threats who managed to still somehow stay the same distance ahead of us in power levels. |
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The first time I read this, I thought, "What? Why would we be fighting unicorns???" Then I went back and read it again. "Oh, the Orson Welles robot in the movie." |
Originally Posted by Willowpaw
If we are going to have the ability to field 40 + incarnates on one team, then you know they are going to use it. And yes, that many incarnates should have something truly cosmic to fight a la Unicron instead of a Tyrant or Recluse or other old threats who managed to still somehow stay the same distance ahead of us in power levels.
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You should use bigger numbers - they're more scary.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
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Minimum for B.A.F. is 12 |
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My powers look and feel plenty powerful to me. It's the enemies who look weak and puny.|
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
I said it once, i'll say it again. I think it's about the effects of our powers. They need to look and feel more powerful.
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Except the giant robots, those look and feel powerful. If Tyrant wants to be taken seriously as a threat, he needs more giant robots.
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Hah, I have to agree with you. I dont have it punch still looks like punch. But if it can knock a giant robot the size of a ******* skyscraper on it's ***/cause it to explode im gonna feel pretty damn powerful.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
My powers look and feel plenty powerful to me. It's the enemies who look weak and puny.
Except the giant robots, those look and feel powerful. If Tyrant wants to be taken seriously as a threat, he needs more giant robots. |
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it's not the devs fault you have never done a rikti or hami raid|
Originally Posted by Bounder
It seems to me that in a way we may actually end up feeling less powerful as superheroes as we gain incarnate power.
Lets see, all though my superhero life, the hardest challenges needed me to team up with 7 other heroes. |
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Now, I have gained incarnate power, yeah! Now lets see what I can do.. and the hardest challenges, now that I'm more powerful.. need 23 to 47 other heroes (or whatever the raid, er leagues will hold). That is fine, unless those challenges end up being just an upgraded version of the older challenges, such as Recluse or someone like him is now tougher too but it now takes you 24 to take him out instead of 8, it might seem off a bit off. I hope the challenges for raid size teams will be things like 80 ft tall robots rampaging though Steel Canyon, cars and buildings burning and civilians fleeing underfoot.. truly the next level in threats. Not just the same kind of threats that we faced as non incarnate heroes but now happen to match our newly found greater power, but even more so. |
So Superman became, or at leased seemed, much *underpowered* because he joined the Justice League?
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If he suddenly needs the League to defeat Captain Boomerang, yes.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
So Superman became, or at leased seemed, much *underpowered* because he joined the Justice League?
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I agree with the OP ; nothing else to add.
This is actually a very comic book inspired idea. Look at the heavy hitters of the Marvel Universe -- Thor, Hulk, etc. Then read "Infinity Gauntlet."
Or look at the heavy hitters of the DC Universe -- Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. Then read something like "Crisis on Infinite Earths."
Teaming up with 20 - 50 heroes (and villains on occasion) happens in comics for their big event stories all the time. If that's the type of thing COH is headed towards, I'm all for it.
Give me giant robots. Give me a madman with truly godlike powers. Give me something like Galactus to fight.
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Yeah, sure I'll team up with you to fight Galactus. I don't want to team up with you to fight the Abomination, with some terrible deus ex slapped on to explain why he's suddenly so powerful I have to team up with you.
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Originally Posted by Defenestrator
This is actually a very comic book inspired idea. Look at the heavy hitters of the Marvel Universe -- Thor, Hulk, etc. Then read "Infinity Gauntlet."
Or look at the heavy hitters of the DC Universe -- Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. Then read something like "Crisis on Infinite Earths." Teaming up with 20 - 50 heroes (and villains on occasion) happens in comics for their big event stories all the time. If that's the type of thing COH is headed towards, I'm all for it. Give me giant robots. Give me a madman with truly godlike powers. Give me something like Galactus to fight. |
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It seems to me that in a way we may actually end up feeling less powerful as superheroes as we gain incarnate power.
Lets see, all though my superhero life, the hardest challenges needed me to team up with 7 other heroes.
Now, I have gained incarnate power, yeah! Now lets see what I can do.. and the hardest challenges, now that I'm more powerful.. need 23 to 47 other heroes (or whatever the raid, er leagues will hold).
That is fine, unless those challenges end up being just an upgraded version of the older challenges, such as Recluse or someone like him is now tougher too but it now takes you 24 to take him out instead of 8, it might seem off a bit off.
I hope the challenges for raid size teams will be things like 80 ft tall robots rampaging though Steel Canyon, cars and buildings burning and civilians fleeing underfoot.. truly the next level in threats. Not just the same kind of threats that we faced as non incarnate heroes but now happen to match our newly found greater power, but even more so.