I can't be the only one who hates having a Taunt aura.
By
Aliana Blue,
Posted on: 2011-02-07 23:55 in Scrappers
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Oh I agree from a design perspective. I personally don't mind having a strong taunt aura, I like it. I've been bitten in the butt by AAO's strength a grand total of once (all-Scrapper Tin Mage, two War Walkers and Bobcat all decided they hated me. It being my first time, I had no idea they buffed each other's to-hit.) I just don't think a Scrapper's taunt aura should trump a Tanker's taunt aura, ever. Holding aggro is their job, and their taunt auras are part of their aggro management toolset. I do not draw aggro with my Blaster AoEs if there is a competent tank and I allow him to do his job, but with AAO I might.
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Originally Posted by Kractis_Sky
I find scrappers with taunt auras thematically fitting. AAO, RttC, Invic are some of the strongest powers in the secondaries of scrappers and should have repercussions - not to mention it fuels their mechanic. The taunt on AAO, is indeed, especially strong. I find this also fitting. There should be risk when damage is buffed that high outright. It's a lot like expecting not to draw argo when you're spamming AOE's as a blaster - Don't start nuttin' and there wont be nuttin'.
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Personally, I'm fine with that... Just like I'm fine with my Fire/SS tanker outdamaging all my scrappers. Change either and you have to change the other IMO, but I'd really rather see no change at all. | I just don't think a Scrapper's taunt aura should trump a Tanker's taunt aura, ever. Holding aggro is their job, and their taunt auras are part of their aggro management toolset. |
I dunno...If you don't have your scrapper built like a glass cannon you should be able to survive with the taunt aggro. Especially if you're /willpower.
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Taunt auras mean stuff close into melee. You know, the place where you do the most damage?
Taunt auras make stuff huddle up nicely to get mown down by AoEs or packed into debuff areas.
Taunt auras help take aggro off squishier teammates. Yes, Scrappers are squishier than Brutes and Tankers but you know what? I can eat inspirations to boost my defense, resists and restore hp. I can't pop inspirations to taunt mobs.
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Originally Posted by Wanted_NA
Everytime I play my /Fire or /DA or /Elec scrappers I curse and curse at the runners. I really wish all scrapper secondaries would get a taunt aura.
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After playing my Claws/Fire brute a lot I can't play any /fire, /DA or /Elec because of the running, there are others reason too. I'm about to delete my level 39 Spins/fire because I hate the running so much.
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I love taunt auras. The only problem I have with my DM/SR scrapper is the lack of a taunt aura. If I had that, he would be perfect.
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This and higher hp making better use of the scaling resists are why /SR is better for Brutes IMO.
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Originally Posted by MunkiLord
I love taunt auras. The only problem I have with my DM/SR scrapper is the lack of a taunt aura. If I had that, he would be perfect.
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This. So much, this.|
Originally Posted by Wanted_NA
Everytime I play my /Fire or /DA or /Elec scrappers I curse and curse at the runners. I really wish all scrapper secondaries would get a taunt aura.
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I actually have to time my FSC on my Fire/Fire when I solo so that I know I'm going to kill everything around me when I hit it, otherwise, every mob on me *will* scatter, each w/a shred of life left.
Edit: I should add, the OP has a bit of a point, in that if you're duo'ing, say 2 scrappers, or hell 2 brutes or 2 tankers, the melee w/the stronger (or just plain existent) taunt aura will take the brunt of aggro. This *can* be a problem at the lower levels. I try to alleviate it by jumping in first (if I have the weaker aura) and catching the alpha, knowing the aggro will bleed off of me. Still, this is a rare enough situation that rarely bothers me, and is far outweighed by the benefits of having mobs stick close to all my melee toons.
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Maybe they could add two copies of the auras into the scrapper secondaries: one with taunt component and one without, obviously coded so that you can only pick one or the other.
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Originally Posted by Werner
I HATE runners.
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I've found the best way to taunt something, is to simply stab it in the face.
Just saying.
/jest
On a secondary note, the idea came to mind just now: What say anyone to the proposition that Confront (a power that is, by and far, widely skipped) be transformed into a more useful tool to the Scrapper as a whole? I'm thinking maybe a 7-10 foot radius taunt aura, un-enhanceable beyond accuracy and endruance. Have a base Acc of maybe 50% (Ala Cloak of Fear style, broke Acc), and a start off end drain somewhere in the neighborhood of 0.80/eps? Make it allowable for the taunt sets, but no enhancement on the taunt itself; leave it just powerful enough that it'll help grab aggro, but no stronger than, say, 75% of a true tanker taunt. This way [we] can compensate some for the loss or lack of a tank, and likewise have a personal option for crowd control even when solo. It'll force a few slots for interest, but is probably not something that will get run 24/7 without intentionally building around it to do so. As a bit of a quirk, there is the issue of things like AAO or RttC that this would over compliment, so maybe make it so the power halves when another taunt effect is running in order to limit it's effectiveness? Or, otherwise completely un-runnable while one of the others is running?
Then, I would pick the power up, and use it. Not constantly, but it would be nice to throw on the pile from time to time.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
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I fully support this.
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Originally Posted by DSorrow
Maybe they could add two copies of the auras into the scrapper secondaries: one with taunt component and one without, obviously coded so that you can only pick one or the other.
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It's worth noting here that there's more to grabbing aggro than having a taunt aura. My understanding, taken from the forums, is that mob "hate" is a factor of several things, one of which is how much damage you've recently dealt a mob. "Taunt" effects act as large multiplier on this, meaning that damage dealt by someone who has taunted a mob is has far more weight than damage dealt by someone who has not.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
I just don't think a Scrapper's taunt aura should trump a Tanker's taunt aura, ever. Holding aggro is their job, and their taunt auras are part of their aggro management toolset. I do not draw aggro with my Blaster AoEs if there is a competent tank and I allow him to do his job, but with AAO I might.
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This is important, because it factors in to what happens when two people have taunted something, and one of them is applying significantly more damage than the other. Even if a Tanker's taunt aura is stronger than a Scrapper's, if they're both beating on the same foe and the Scrapper is dealing enough extra damage to make up the difference in taunt strength, they may "steal" aggro. Making the Tanker's taunt aura strong enough to ensure this never happened would probably require extremely large differences in Tanker and Scrapper aura "hate" multipliers.
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This is a very fair and balanced point, unlike the 3 toon example given above.
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Originally Posted by dave_p
Edit: I should add, the OP has a bit of a point, in that if you're duo'ing, say 2 scrappers, or hell 2 brutes or 2 tankers, the melee w/the stronger (or just plain existent) taunt aura will take the brunt of aggro. This *can* be a problem at the lower levels. I try to alleviate it by jumping in first (if I have the weaker aura) and catching the alpha, knowing the aggro will bleed off of me. Still, this is a rare enough situation that rarely bothers me, and is far outweighed by the benefits of having mobs stick close to all my melee toons.
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Great suggestion.
| Maybe they could add two copies of the auras into the scrapper secondaries: one with taunt component and one without, obviously coded so that you can only pick one or the other. |
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I can't agree enough.|
Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
This
After playing my Claws/Fire brute a lot I can't play any /fire, /DA or /Elec because of the running, there are others reason too. I'm about to delete my level 39 Spins/fire because I hate the running so much. |
I have a level 35 DM/Fire Scrapper and a level 37 DM/Fire Brute. The difference in survivability is appalling, based solely on the Taunt component of Blazing Aura in my Brute. A lot of people might think that I am saying my Scrapper survives more, but what happens in practice is my Brute keeps everything near her. I hit Fiery Embrace, Soul Drain, Burn, Siphon Life (to top up) and then Consume and then another Burn. Most everything is dead. I try the same strategy on my Scrapper and everything is scattered to all directions pelting me with ranged attacks.
I really wish the damage auras had a Taunt component.
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When did you most recently try this on your scrapper? I believe the Panic component of Burn has been removed...
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Originally Posted by BlackBellatrix
I can't agree enough.
I have a level 35 DM/Fire Scrapper and a level 37 DM/Fire Brute. The difference in survivability is appalling, based solely on the Taunt component of Blazing Aura in my Brute. A lot of people might think that I am saying my Scrapper survives more, but what happens in practice is my Brute keeps everything near her. I hit Fiery Embrace, Soul Drain, Burn, Siphon Life (to top up) and then Consume and then another Burn. Most everything is dead. I try the same strategy on my Scrapper and everything is scattered to all directions pelting me with ranged attacks. I really wish the damage auras had a Taunt component. |
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Then don't take it, for me on my WillPower, it's a good thing to have Raise to the Challenge, it does a Tohit Debuff, as well as help with regen when you fighting against a big mob. I don't think all Taunt Aura is a most have, you can skip them if you want to.|
Originally Posted by Vanden
This is something that seriously annoys me on a Scrapper. I don't have Tanker or even Brute HP or defense numbers. I'm not meant to bear the brunt of an entire spawn. Yet if I use some of my strongest powers, I risk stealing aggro from a Tanker and getting splattered.
I really wish none of the various aura powers for Scrappers had Taunt in them. When I see that Shield Defense or Invulnerability has one of them, I consider that a serious drawback to taking the set. |
Also if you build your Scrapper up, you can hold Aggro for a while with easy, well I guess taunt Aura is good, as long you got a good tanker who can hold Aggro, so you only got a small number of badly.
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As of three days ago, dropping Burn against mobs up to level 54 instantly led them to run away on my Kat/Fire scrapper.
| When did you most recently try this on your scrapper? I believe the Panic component of Burn has been removed... |
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Which mobs, are you softcapped, etc. Specific mobs and being unable to hit you have some effect on the mob AI iirc. But I don't believe the fear component is there. Alternatively, you can just opo up the info button of your skill and see if there is a fear component. (granted that's sometimes inaccurate)
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
As of three days ago, dropping Burn against mobs up to level 54 instantly led them to run away on my Kat/Fire scrapper.
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I said what I said, nothing more nothing less - I don't care what's the exact effect, normal AI or fear in Burn, the point is they run away and they do so instantly. I'll add that it happens against most mobs (any kind, except of course AVs) and that I have a grand total of 10% defense on this character.
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It isn't the fear component of Burn still being there, it's that there is a panic element to the AI. It seems like when they receive a lot of damage, they become demoralised and scatter. Since my Brute had a taunt in blazing aura, they turn around and try and fight me just as quick as they run.
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Originally Posted by Signpost
Which mobs, are you softcapped, etc. Specific mobs and being unable to hit you have some effect on the mob AI iirc. But I don't believe the fear component is there. Alternatively, you can just opo up the info button of your skill and see if there is a fear component. (granted that's sometimes inaccurate)
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If you're noticing that you're seeing mobs insta-run on dropping Burn again, then it's a bug. Please /bug it so the devs can hop on it and beat it into submission.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
I said what I said, nothing more nothing less - I don't care what's the exact effect, normal AI or fear in Burn, the point is they run away and they do so instantly. I'll add that it happens against most mobs (any kind, except of course AVs) and that I have a grand total of 10% defense on this character.
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Not to sound like a ****** but you're doing it wrong if you hate having a taunt aura, or you're just not building your characters right. A scrapper with a taunt aura should be able to solo about 90% of the content in this game
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Originally Posted by Vanden
This is something that seriously annoys me on a Scrapper. I don't have Tanker or even Brute HP or defense numbers. I'm not meant to bear the brunt of an entire spawn. Yet if I use some of my strongest powers, I risk stealing aggro from a Tanker and getting splattered.
I really wish none of the various aura powers for Scrappers had Taunt in them. When I see that Shield Defense or Invulnerability has one of them, I consider that a serious drawback to taking the set. |
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I wish blazing aura had taunt, I get tired off chasing stuff down, it kills my dps.
If the heat gets too much because of the taunt, I can move myself away.