I can't be the only one who hates having a Taunt aura.
By
Aliana Blue,
Posted on: 2011-02-07 23:55 in Scrappers
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Only the stone ones.. |
Originally Posted by Santorican
No way I love peeling aggro off of tankers. Mostly because the majority of tankers are just so slow lol
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umm...wow. go play a healzor, I've played a couple of scrappers without taunt auras and delete them.
The more people I meet, the more I'm beginning to root for the zombies.
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I quit playing my katana/sr because it does not have one hell i play mini tank in a lot of teams with my fire/sd scrapper and have no issues. I find it hard to play a scrapper now with out damage aura to help get agro or a taunt aura.|
Originally Posted by Vanden
This is something that seriously annoys me on a Scrapper. I don't have Tanker or even Brute HP or defense numbers. I'm not meant to bear the brunt of an entire spawn. Yet if I use some of my strongest powers, I risk stealing aggro from a Tanker and getting splattered.
I really wish none of the various aura powers for Scrappers had Taunt in them. When I see that Shield Defense or Invulnerability has one of them, I consider that a serious drawback to taking the set. |
In fact i took provoke on my spines/da for two reason more agro and s/l defense : the benefit of having inherent fitness yay.
More agro please
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
I love the taunt aura on my Invuln scrappers (and my WP when I play him). With the rare Nerve slotted on my Kat/Inv I was keeping the aggro off two different tankers today while fighting Reichsman. They were both occasionally using Taunt. One of them was an Ice tanker running CE (but not Icicles) and the other was an Inv. I had to do a double take. Sure, I would sometimes occasionally steal it from a tanker before, but Taunt always made them peel off me and I do not recall ever beating out an Ice tanker before. With the Nerve slotted, it seems a tanker will really have to work if they need to keep aggro off me (which they shouldn't normally, but I'll have to keep an eye on it if for some reason I don't want the aggro).
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
It is not so much that scrappers can have a taunt aura, it is the degree of aggro it can strip from a tank. WP is the worst out there for tuant arua. A WP tank can be neck deep in mobs attacking away and a shield or invuln scrapper walk in the room and they all aggro on the scrapper. That should not happen IMHO.
A scrapper should be able to keep some aggro if there is no tank or brute in the group, but they should not strip aggro right away from these other ATs.
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I have never had this happen on my WP tanker. If I am neck deep in a spawn AND attacking, I do not lose aggro. If a Shield or Invuln scrapper jump in at the same time or only just after I do, sure, they can get some aggro since my aura does not just snap it up right away. But once I start using Whirling Mace and Crowd control, they snap right back to me. My experience with the Nerve Alpha suggests that a scrapper who slots for taunt, may be a different matter (although my WP is slotting the Nerve as well, so that may make up for it).
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Originally Posted by HelinCarnate
It is not so much that scrappers can have a taunt aura, it is the degree of aggro it can strip from a tank. WP is the worst out there for tuant arua. A WP tank can be neck deep in mobs attacking away and a shield or invuln scrapper walk in the room and they all aggro on the scrapper. That should not happen IMHO.
A scrapper should be able to keep some aggro if there is no tank or brute in the group, but they should not strip aggro right away from these other ATs. |
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Hmmmm.... a /shield tank, a /shield brute, and a /shield scrap walk into a bar...
activate AAO and, just before unleashing armaggeddon, observe the results. I would say at *this* point a critter would be no more drawn to one or the other. Once attacking starts, Punch-voke would be the 3-way tie breaker- unless the scrappers damage would somehow overwhelm that (unlikely, but possible). The punch-voke is spliting the attention of the baddies until, brute taunts a few (1-5? targets). If the tank doesnt taunt, more attention is on the brute. Once the tank taunts, all bets are off. Tank gets the argo. This is how I see it. Taunt >> Active > Passive. I guess the question arises at what point does passive argo (via taunt auras) sway in favor of an AT. I can see brutes = scrappers. I see the point of Tanks necessarily drawing more argo via auras, but mechanically I would fear it would detract from using taunt and active argo management even more. That would just inflame the "do I need taunt" question even more. There's nothing I detest more on the tanker forums than the drawn-out theads on this subject (Needed? No. Does it *really* help? Heck yes!)
Miss Arc #147491: Rise of Bedlam
AKA Iron Smoke @Champion Server
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Of the 3 scrapper secondaries that actually have a taunt aura, all 3 of them benefit greatly from having enemies in melee range of them. |
Originally Posted by Vanden
This is something that seriously annoys me on a Scrapper. I don't have Tanker or even Brute HP or defense numbers. I'm not meant to bear the brunt of an entire spawn. Yet if I use some of my strongest powers, I risk stealing aggro from a Tanker and getting splattered.
I really wish none of the various aura powers for Scrappers had Taunt in them. When I see that Shield Defense or Invulnerability has one of them, I consider that a serious drawback to taking the set. |
Willpower has Rise to the Challenge, which gives you a regen boost for each enemy in melee. Invulnerability has Invincibility, which gives you a defense boost for each enemy in melee. And Shield Defense gives you a damage boost for each enemy in melee.
Additionally, in the case of Willpower and Invulnerability, you WANT a lot of enemies around you, because you will survive longer with them there.
If those 3 powers did NOT taunt enemies, they would be less likely to remain within the powers' area of effect. If there was nothing keeping them near you, anything you are not actively attacking will wander off outside the range of your beneficial powers. Council and 5th Column are notorious for gathering in a circle just outside melee range and blasting away with their machine guns, and when they do that, if you have no taunt aura to draw them in, their presence isn't benefiting you at all. I can remember numerous times my WP scrappers have faceplanted because things were shooting me while never entering RttCs radius to give me a regen boost.
In short, the powers that include a taunt effect have it because it helps the power work like it's supposed to.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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My Fire/Shield with unslotted taunt aura routinely duos with an Invuln/Super Strength Tanker with well-slotted Taunt and taunt aura.|
Originally Posted by Kractis_Sky
Once the tank taunts, all bets are off. Tank gets the argo. This is how I see it. Taunt >> Active > Passive.
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If the Tanker gets to the spawn first, Foot Stomps and Taunts, I feel like I'm probably only able to get the aggro of what he hasn't taunted, and only sometimes. If I get there first and start wailing on something, even Taunt won't get them off of me until they're dead. AVs excepted because they survive long enough to get multi-taunted, which seems to eventually overwhelm my damage. But if he gets casual with Taunt in an AV fight, I can get the aggro back. He has to use it routinely to keep aggro.
And OK, yes, maybe that's a little strong. I can understand peeling a little aggro with my combination of unslotted taunt aura and huge damage. It might be a little much to be able to hold that aggro through a well-slotted Tanker Taunt and taunt aura.
Hasn't caused us any problems because my build can handle the aggro bleed, even when we're playing +4x8. But I can see how it could be a problem for some people.
Thinking further on it, maybe it's specifically when we play +4x8 (we don't always) that we see this happen. High level enemies are probably heavily resisting the taunts from both of us and responding to my massive damage output in ways that lower level enemies would not. Maybe I should experiment more. I haven't been observing carefully because it hasn't been a problem.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Yep, slotting makes things more interesting. My understanding is that the duration is effected and magnitude is a manifestation of stacking (made easier by the expanded window of opertunties to stack (I know we're all not this dumb; just thinking "aloud")).* The question is then are most Tanks going to slot for taunt, use it and if not will the game be changed for it (altering threat magnitudes)? I doubt it. Any of it. Also, in accordance to buffing atributes tank taunt is 400%, right? Add in 100% for slotting and that's obviously 500%. Do many things get buffs past 500%? So, practically speaking, Werner's is interesting and Scrappers should be build to take healthy amounts of flack depending on thier attack styles. Big surprise. I guess I'm thinking too idealistically. I'm also concerned if Dev's look at this too closely, and toned down AAO argo, (in ref. to Eva D) the buff would be changed, too. That would be bad.
*whats the average taunt on a scrapper attack? Brute unslotted for it?
Miss Arc #147491: Rise of Bedlam
AKA Iron Smoke @Champion Server
Just a caveat i find that a lot of tankers don't take taunt
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Yo! You reading any of this? |
Originally Posted by Vanden
Why?
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Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
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While levelling, fine.|
Originally Posted by Santorican
Just a caveat i find that a lot of tankers don't take taunt
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Level 50 tankers should have Taunt on at least ONE build, and that should be the build they use for tanking level 51+ AVs.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Personally, I think if you don't want a Taunt Aura, don't make or play a character who has one.
I love /Fire but I can't stand the throbbing pulse the PBAoE makes after a few minutes of watching it, so I don't play one.
See how it works? Simple! 
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Originally Posted by GibsonMcCoy
Personally, I think if you don't want a Taunt Aura, don't make or play a character who has one.
I love /Fire but I can't stand the throbbing pulse the PBAoE makes after a few minutes of watching it, so I don't play one. See how it works? Simple! |
It's kind of a nitpick, but Blazing Aura, Death Shroud, and Lightning Field aren't Taunt auras when used by scrappers, only the tank and brute versions have a taunt component. They just deal damage, if someone comes up next to you with an actual taunt aura running they are going to get the agro.
Among scrappers, only Willpower, Invulnerability, and Shield Defense have actual taunt auras.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I think you may have misread me, Claws. I wasn't saying /Fire had a Taunt aura, I was saying I love /Fire but I don't play it because the pulsing effect irritates me after a few minutes.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
It's kind of a nitpick, but Blazing Aura, Death Shroud, and Lightning Field aren't Taunt auras when used by scrappers, only the tank and brute versions have a taunt component. They just deal damage, if someone comes up next to you with an actual taunt aura running they are going to get the agro.
Among scrappers, only Willpower, Invulnerability, and Shield Defense have actual taunt auras. |
I was just pointing out to the OP that if you don't like having something from a power, then don't play that power.
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As a bartender, I don't like where this is going....|
Originally Posted by Kractis_Sky
Hmmmm.... a /shield tank, a /shield brute, and a /shield scrap walk into a bar...
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As a /Shield Scrapper, I love where this is going.
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| I see the point of Tanks necessarily drawing more argo via auras, but mechanically I would fear it would detract from using taunt and active argo management even more. That would just inflame the "do I need taunt" question even more. There's nothing I detest more on the tanker forums than the drawn-out theads on this subject (Needed? No. Does it *really* help? Heck yes!) |
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Originally Posted by Kractis_Sky
I'm also concerned if Dev's look at this too closely, and toned down AAO argo, (in ref. to Eva D) the buff would be changed, too. That would be bad.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
It's kind of a nitpick, but Blazing Aura, Death Shroud, and Lightning Field aren't Taunt auras when used by scrappers, only the tank and brute versions have a taunt component. They just deal damage, if someone comes up next to you with an actual taunt aura running they are going to get the agro.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Well you've all managed to convince me that maybe I am the only one who hates having a Taunt aura. It hasn't changed my opinion, though. Sure those sets need enemies in melee for those powers to work best, but you're a Scrapper; you're going to close in melee with them. They don't need to be attacking you to get that benefit, and besides, an enemy who isn't attacking you is an enemy you don't need defenses against.
As for preventing runners, that is a nice feature, but I think a middle ground is possible where the Scrapper can keep the enemies from running away without pulling AV aggro off the Tanker and getting splattered.
It's great that you guys have these high-performance, soft-capped, unkillable Scrappers that can handle multi-AV aggro, but most players don't and they're suffering for their taunt auras.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
I wish my level 22 KM/SD scrapper was softcapped. I also wish I understood why so many people are in denial about Shield. Finally, I wish I could see just once this mythical casual player who can't purple his warshade, dies everytime he activates a taunt aura, can't complete the LRSF without shivans/nukes on a full team and yet apparently has no trouble defeating 2 AVs in a 10 second window.
I'm not at all sure what you're talking about.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
I get most of it, but what is the denial about shield?
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Evidence?
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Originally Posted by Vanden
they're suffering for their taunt auras.
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Fine, I'm suffering for it, but I have no reason to believe my experience is anything but typical.
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Originally Posted by brophog02
Evidence?
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Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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3 level 40+ Willpower Scrapper, 2 level 50 Willpower Brutes, 1 30+ Invuln Scrapper, and 1 20 or so Shield Scrapper (No SOs yet, not even to 25% defense yet). I've never felt that the Taunt aspect of Rise to the Challenge, Invincibility or Against all Odds was a detriment to my survivability. >Shrugs< 7 characters, 0 thoughts that the Taunt aura was a bad thing.|
Originally Posted by Vanden
Fine, I'm suffering for it, but I have no reason to believe my experience is anything but typical.
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Edit: Oh yeah, hate to break it to ya, but if your experience was typical, then *SOMEONE* would have agreed with you by now...
Beowulf -
Too many Alts, not enough 50's. Story of my life...
Other than that, I loves my taunt auras precious, yes I does. I'm playing a melee AT, so logically I'd want to keep everything in melee, no? I'm also playing an AT that obviously terrifies the crap out of everything, seeing how much my Scrappers without a taunt aura have to deal with runners. I only wish /SR had one. Oh, and Dark Armor, which could use one even more seeing as it has all those PbAoE mitigation powers.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread