Wow, I have to say. This is SUCK!
By
AnElfCalledMack,
Posted on: 2011-02-04 19:40 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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You need bigger purples.
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Originally Posted by Miyabi
Tell that to my Fire Tank who still got two-shotted through four small purple inspirations every time I hit Taunt on Recluse.
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Blasters must be broken beyond belief, then.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
When potions/inspirations no longer "assist" the fight but instead "define" it, you've got a broken system.
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If I'm reading Mids correctly, a Fire tank has, at best, 45% resistance to energy damage. IIRC, with the red tower up, LR has an energy attack that hits for 6000 damage before resistance.|
Originally Posted by Miyabi
Tell that to my Fire Tank who still got two-shotted through four small purple inspirations every time I hit Taunt on Recluse.
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Additionally, with the blue tower up, LR has a base 80% to-hit. If your tank doesn't have any defense, you need six small purples to be softcapped against him -- and between the purple patch accuracy bonus and the Archvillain accuracy bonus, he still has about an 11% chance of hitting you. With only four, he's got a 67.5% chance.
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Looks like to me you were doing it wrong.
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Originally Posted by Miyabi
Tell that to my Fire Tank who still got two-shotted through four small purple inspirations every time I hit Taunt on Recluse.
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Yes. I fooled myself into thinking I could tank Recluse.|
Originally Posted by MunkiLord
Looks like to me you were doing it wrong.
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Didn't help that I had no team buffs (Two Rads, both on the towers, and a Kin who SB'd once per mission and used Transference once every three minutes...)
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Fire tanks can handle LR, but it's not easy. You'll need high Defense and Resistance to Smashing, Lethal, and Energy. With a well-slotted Fire tanker, you have 45% resistance to Energy. With the Wedding Band temp power, that becomes 75%. With a medium Orange inspiration or a set of Sonic or Thermal shields, that's 90% - the Resistance cap. And taking 600 damage hurts, but it's not going to make you collapse straight away. You'll probably want to hit Healing Flames after that, so you need defenses to make that attack only land every 10-15 seconds. From my experience, somewhere around 65-70% will do it.|
Originally Posted by Katie V
If I'm reading Mids correctly, a Fire tank has, at best, 45% resistance to energy damage. IIRC, with the red tower up, LR has an energy attack that hits for 6000 damage before resistance.
Additionally, with the blue tower up, LR has a base 80% to-hit. If your tank doesn't have any defense, you need six small purples to be softcapped against him -- and between the purple patch accuracy bonus and the Archvillain accuracy bonus, he still has about an 11% chance of hitting you. With only four, he's got a 67.5% chance. |
The big problem for a Fire tanker on LR is Endurance drains. Consume isn't going to hit through the orange tower, so you have no -End resistance and no recovery tool. Nearly any support set can help out (except Sonic, Dark, Traps and TA), either with End Drain resistance or +End/+Recovery powers. But without that, you'll be running dry in seconds.
I have now tanked Lord Recluse twice. The first time went perfectly, and I've discussed it at length elsewhere. The second time was a dog's breakfast - I'm fairly sure I was defeated at least five times in the fight, mostly due to toggle drops. But that's the great thing about Fiery Aura. Each time, I got back up and headed back into the fight. I RotP'ed. I got Mutated. I RotP'ed. I got Rezzed. I RotP'ed. I kept going, and we made it work. We won, even without perfect setup or perfect execution. And this was a PUG with three Blasters.
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Stand next to the green tower. That give you something to hit with Consume, gives the Kin something to use to hit you with Transfusion, and so on.
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Originally Posted by AnElfCalledMack
The big problem for a Fire tanker on LR is Endurance drains. Consume isn't going to hit through the orange tower, so you have no -End resistance and no recovery tool. Nearly any support set can help out (except Sonic, Dark, Traps and TA), either with End Drain resistance or +End/+Recovery powers. But without that, you'll be running dry in seconds.
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Great idea! Although I'd probably stand by the blue tower. All things going well, you shouldn't even need to take that one out. Otherwise, I'd have to move him away before everyone came over to take out the green tower.|
Originally Posted by Katie V
Stand next to the green tower. That give you something to hit with Consume, gives the Kin something to use to hit you with Transfusion, and so on.
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Unfortunately, I spent half the bad fight jetpack-taunting, so that wasn't really an option. If I was close enough to Consume the tower, I'd be close enough to the ground for LR to spam his KB cone.
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Solid advice, but there's also the much easier cheese : buy jetpack for 10k in FBZ or WW. Fly up. Put Taunt on auto. Go AFK.| Fire tanks can handle LR, but it's not easy. [...] |
But then if people took the whole ten minutes it takes to read up on that "strategy", get the jetpack and eventually make a quick second build on SOs with Taunt if they don't have Taunt, they couldn't spend hours if not days complaining about the STF being too hard. Hmm.
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Not everyone who thinks the system is just fine the way it is is an 'extrovert', either.
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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
I am using brain chemistry to explain why some people might not like to team (in the face of a plethora of arguments from extroverts about how we just need to give it a chance, or get out of our shells, or suck it up and get over it).
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"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
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Untrue. You can find a way to beat the STF with just about any mix of powers, and if your teammates aren't complete idiots you shouldn't need temp powers either. |
Originally Posted by Pinkpup
So once again, I learn the lesson with STF... you need to pick the proper mix of powers and/or take the time to get the temp powers that can help.
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The OPs problem was he had a team that was melee heavy and too stubborn to even consider doing anything other than stand there and beat on her, giving her plenty of fuel for her Dark Regeneration.
If someone had taunted her from range and kept her agro on them, she will never fire her Dark Regeneration.
The last STF I was on had 4 melee ATs (2 tanks, 2 scraps), a couple defenders (one of which was a pure emp and not doing much damage) a blaster, and a corruptor.
We beat her down in about 45 seconds. Largely because we took a few seconds before the fight to work out a strategy, instead of just beating on her and thinking we could win through pure damage.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Forgive me if someone already pointed this out but Ghost Widows heal only heals of those infront of her. The fight is much easier when the rest hit her from the back...
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Nor did I say they were.
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Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
Not everyone who thinks the system is just fine the way it is is an 'extrovert', either.
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Just thought i would chip in with my STF story from last night.
The team was relatively mixed. We had two blasters (one Ice/ and one DP), two tankers (one Inv, one Shield/Electric <= me), two illusion controllers (one of which was a /Thermal and the other a /Storm), a scrapper and someone else I can't remember!
Anyway, we sailed through most the TF till we got to the 4 AVs in the last mission. We tried pulling one at a time but it didn't quite go to plan and we were facing all four. We tried just fighting all four at once, focussing on GW but that didn't quite work. So the Inv tank pulled Scorpion, Mako and Scir-thingy away while I tanked GW. I kepy in front of her (I was soft capped) while everyone else tried to stay behind. It wasn't the quickest fight but we did get her down in the end. I then grabbed agro of the others away from the Inv one at time and we just took them down that way.
We then took out hte flyer and moved onto LR. Now he was a bit of a pain. At first we tried holding his attention with the PAs but whenever the despawned he would come and rip the team to shreds. Then the Inv tank tried taunting with the help of the Thermal but it didn't work and then the team started to lose a bit of focus and get frustrated (I know I was anyway hehe).
We then decided I would hover taunt LR and the Ill/Therm controller would stay with me and heal me with cautorise as soon as I got hit with his ranged attack, and because LR was running around like an mad man trying some way reach me he didn't let it off that often. This was working (apart from one close call when I ran out endurance due to the -recovery on his ranged attacked) but thenunfortunately the flyer respawned so the Inv tank went and taunted it away so the others could take down the towers in peace. We took them all down then gave LR the beating he deserved!!
The whole TF took us a couple of hours but I had a real sense of satisfaction at the end because we pulled together as a team and managed to adapt our strategies as we went along 
Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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No, but you did say that the devs were potentially excluding 25% of the population. What you meant was 'that subset of that 25% who also don't want to run TFs'.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Nor did I say they were.
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I'm pretty darn introverted, by any of the definitions you've given. On the other hand, I like TFs, because for me they are by far the lowest-stress form of teaming, as they require the least interaction from me. (Beyond saying 'I'll take a spot' when someone says they're running a TF, all I have to do is show up and follow the team from spawn to spawn. I don't have to talk in chat if I don't feel like it, and the team has a defined duration and end point, after which I can simply says 'thanks' and leave without feeling like I'm causing any inconvenience.)
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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No, what I said there (which is another thread, in case anyone is reading this and is confused) was that if the developers didn't design with introvert preferences in mind, they ran the risk of excluding 25% of the population, in response to someone else specifically saying "you can't expect the developers to design with introvert preferences in mind." |
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
No, but you did say that the devs were potentially excluding 25% of the population.
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Do people just read my posts out of context looking for something to pick on? Do they ignore the things I quote to give them context?
As an introvert, teaming in MMOs is the perfect social environment for me. I am safe in my own home, I can leave whenever I want, I can ignore attempts to engage me in conversation that I find objectionable, and I don't need to ever justify my choices to anyone. I would bet that the set of people who can't, won't or don't team due to introversion is microscopic, although I can see it being used as a justification when people refuse to respect one's decision not to team.
I think it's been established about 3 or 4 topics ago Eiko-chan is pretty much alone in his specific definition of "introvert = hate MMO teams", and the fact that he ignores every real introvert who posted saying he/she feels differently and went on to keep saying the same stuff in a bazillion different topics is a rather obvious plea for attention. Introvert my ***, just your average forum drama queen.
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Have you left Task Force teams while the Task Force was uncompleted because you felt you needed to break (for whatever reason)? |
Originally Posted by Emberly
I can leave whenever I want
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I'm not judging; I'm asking. I couldn't bring myself to do that, and am curious if other people can.
In the past week, I have run the STF about a dozen times. Only failed once, due to an experienced but badly formed team. Good players, but the team was made up of 4 scrappers, 2 blasters, something else without support and my Plant/Kin Controller (who started at level 48). No tank. No other support.
In spite of the above, we did pretty well until LR. We tried several ways to handle him. My buddy is a softcapped BS/Shield scrapper, and tried to tank LR with my Plant/Kin healing him next to a tower . . . and he just couldn't hold the aggro. LR would lose interest, smack me for a quick faceplant and then run around to slaughter everyone else. We gave up after a couple of hours.
Every other team I was on found a way to succeed, from teams with great players who I have known for a while and teamed with regularly (did one in 1:09 without rushing . . . just going through it normally), to a few pure PUGs on secondary servers. The only other team that succeeded without a Tank was the All-Controller WTF on Guardian -- we made up for the lack of a tank with FOUR Illusion Controllers boxing LR in with four sets of PA. (That one got done in 1:10 without rushing.)
A good tank is nearly, but not absolutely, essential. You have to have some way to manage LR's aggro. I tanked two of the runs with minimal problems. My Invul/Axe tank faceplanted twice with LR because I had not gotten loaded up with the right Inspirations and he had no support. My Stone/Fire Tank had a Fire/Empathy backing him up and his green bar barely moved.
On one of my PUG teams, we started out with our only Tank being WP/Mace with no taunt . . . I saw a failure likely, mentioned that it would be hard for a WP/Mace without Taunt to hold LR's aggro and suggested that we try to get another tank . . . and the WP/Mace suddenly quit anyway. In his place we got an Invul/SS who did a fine job without much support. I was on my less-than-optimally-slotted Ill/TA who isn't anywhere close to Perma-PA, and I was the one who faceplanted the most due to my AoE debuffs drawing a lot of attention.
A decent team can complete the STF, as long as you have a decent tank or some other way to manage aggro. It can certainly be failed without that element.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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I loathe that method. I cannot imagine why it is allowed to work. I have seen him pacified by a rad with toggles as well. He literally just stood still on top of a pipe staring at the rad controller while the rest of the team killed the towers. They either should increase his range or make his AI give up on a target like that after a few seconds and charge after people beating on his towers.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
Solid advice, but there's also the much easier cheese : buy jetpack for 10k in FBZ or WW. Fly up. Put Taunt on auto. Go AFK.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Not to take this thread away but I find Scriocco is the worst of all 4 especially if you plan a squishy. He stuns, drains endurance and I believe the tornado is auto hit? I haven't done STF much but last time I brought my Bane soldier who is at least 45% defense and he got hit so often by Scirroco or whatever the other 3 were throwing.
We save GW for the last 'cause she takes more time to kill. If you have MMs with melee pets, they need to goto them away 'cause she can leech off pets (unless everyone has high defense).
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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It's actually not. I discovered this when I ran a rough STF back on Wednesday. The tornados always seemed to go for me, a Blaster, but I found that as long as I kept moving it wouldn't hurt me. It only hits if you let it sit on you for a couple seconds. I stayed alive far longer than I should have just by running around between shots.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
He stuns, drains endurance and I believe the tornado is auto hit?
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De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Not to take this thread away but I find Scriocco is the worst of all 4 especially if you plan a squishy. He stuns, drains endurance and I believe the tornado is auto hit? I haven't done STF much but last time I brought my Bane soldier who is at least 45% defense and he got hit so often by Scirroco or whatever the other 3 were throwing.
We save GW for the last 'cause she takes more time to kill. If you have MMs with melee pets, they need to goto them away 'cause she can leech off pets (unless everyone has high defense). |
Can the tornados jump? I've been wrecked by them before but noticed that while standing on the ledge that splits down the center Grandville while S was on the main floor that they never hit me. Although that character also has capped Ranged defense, or I could have just been too far away (altho I wasn't that far).
Game design doesn't exclude anybody from these tasks. Inspirations make up for any holes in the build. If somebody chooses not to use the tools available to them, it is completely their fault.