City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

I take back what I said.

Arilou

By Arilou,
Posted on: 2011-02-01 14:43 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

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Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
Because the WST is more than the incarnate content (in fact, the "real" way to get the incarnate stuff comes in I20, this is just a bonus) everyone gets something nie from doing the WST.
While that's true, one might have expected then to treat the WTF as THE way to get Incarnate content until they get another, better way. Even if it's just a placeholder, does it hurt to keep it to level cap TFs until I20?

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
While that's true, one might have expected then to treat the WTF as THE way to get Incarnate content until they get another, better way. Even if it's just a placeholder, does it hurt to keep it to level cap TFs until I20?
Yes, cause the WSF is not just for the notices. It's also for merits and badges, and to encourage people to play lesser-played TF/SF too.

 

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Originally Posted by Signpost View Post
Yes, cause the WSF is not just for the notices. It's also for merits and badges, and to encourage people to play lesser-played TF/SF too.
And you don't see how that kneecaps the entire Incarnate system in the process? It may not be just for the NotW in concept, but RIGHT NOW, that's what it's primarily for. That's what they announced it as. It makes sense to keep it for this until a better method is introduced.

I remind you of the original bank robbery missions in City of Villains before the advent of Mayhem Missions. Yes, right now they show up as regular paper missions, but before Mayhems, that's what you got at the end of three/five paper missions. They didn't leave it uncapped with nothing at the end, they put in a placeholder that they treated like a placeholder.

The WTF was advertised as a placeholder for the I20 Incarnate Trials, but they're not treating it like such. They're treating it like an unrelated mechanic that just so happens to be where the Rare and Very Rare components are, but without giving any regard to this. Do you see now why I'm against putting in placeholders like this?

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
And you don't see how that kneecaps the entire Incarnate system in the process? It may not be just for the NotW in concept, but RIGHT NOW, that's what it's primarily for. That's what they announced it as. It makes sense to keep it for this until a better method is introduced.

I remind you of the original bank robbery missions in City of Villains before the advent of Mayhem Missions. Yes, right now they show up as regular paper missions, but before Mayhems, that's what you got at the end of three/five paper missions. They didn't leave it uncapped with nothing at the end, they put in a placeholder that they treated like a placeholder.

The WTF was advertised as a placeholder for the I20 Incarnate Trials, but they're not treating it like such. They're treating it like an unrelated mechanic that just so happens to be where the Rare and Very Rare components are, but without giving any regard to this. Do you see now why I'm against putting in placeholders like this?
I don't see anywhere which the WSF is advertised as a placeholder for I20 incarnate trials. Especially when considering you don't need Going Rogue to do the WSF, a requirement for the alpha slots.

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
And you don't see how that kneecaps the entire Incarnate system in the process? It may not be just for the NotW in concept, but RIGHT NOW, that's what it's primarily for. That's what they announced it as. It makes sense to keep it for this until a better method is introduced.

I remind you of the original bank robbery missions in City of Villains before the advent of Mayhem Missions. Yes, right now they show up as regular paper missions, but before Mayhems, that's what you got at the end of three/five paper missions. They didn't leave it uncapped with nothing at the end, they put in a placeholder that they treated like a placeholder.

The WTF was advertised as a placeholder for the I20 Incarnate Trials, but they're not treating it like such. They're treating it like an unrelated mechanic that just so happens to be where the Rare and Very Rare components are, but without giving any regard to this. Do you see now why I'm against putting in placeholders like this?
The release of the WSF before I20 is meant to tide the players over until I20 I imagine. The system itself is not a placeholder. Yes, it is effectively a placeholder [and acts as one until the 'main' system goes up]. But I feel it is a different entity.

I can see Paper/Radio missions being construed as being a precursor to Tips. A more generic form of placeholder, without the implication of it being temporary and intending to be replaced. Yet we have both still, perhaps that's simply so the devs can gate the content for flagged accounts, I dunno. But it is that way .

[ edit / add ]
Silly posted before I was done typing grrr.
I don't much like that it was released first, as other's said, just look at it as a bonus. But it causes this system to appear/act as the primary system, which it really shouldn't be. It should be a surplus/extra system meant to encourage folks to pug.

Let's Dance!

 

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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker View Post
I'm with Damz in that I feel the challenge from many of the task forces we've come to know and love will be minimized - and in fairness, the Devs do have form when it comes to dumbing the game down.

I guess the alternative is to either up the difficulty or have some toons that ain't never gonna be incarnates.

OR... ask the Devs to give us an option when forming a TF. The normal version or "the Incarnate Version" so that we can choose our difficulty level when running it.
Run stuff at x8 +4 then. Hell, we can usually steamroller a +2 ITF on Union, so cranking it up to +4 would likely be fun.
+5 option, maybe?

And, really, this is all totally subjective. You call it dumbing down; I, on the other hand, slotted my Rare last night and then went to clear out Levantera's arc on x8 settings on Alpha. And I was having a blast. It made me feel like an arctual Archvillain.

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker View Post
I'm with Damz in that I feel the challenge from many of the task forces we've come to know and love will be minimized - and in fairness, the Devs do have form when it comes to dumbing the game down.

I guess the alternative is to either up the difficulty or have some toons that ain't never gonna be incarnates.

OR... ask the Devs to give us an option when forming a TF. The normal version or "the Incarnate Version" so that we can choose our difficulty level when running it.
No thanks, please. I've already heard talk in game of people considering denying others from teams if they don't have a rare slotted. I don't want to be locked out of current content by players who feel it's now necessary or because all that is being run is the super special Incarnate version.

How about instead people just unslot the rare they have and run it like normal?

 

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Originally Posted by Toony View Post
No thanks, please. I've already heard talk in game of people considering denying others from teams if they don't have a rare slotted. I don't want to be locked out of current content by players who feel it's now necessary or because all that is being run is the super special Incarnate version.

How about instead people just unslot the rare they have and run it like normal?
If you find a player like that, put them on global ignore and tell your friends who they are, because that's bull**** and we all know it. 99% of the time, people on Virtue try that crap and get laughed at.

My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
While that's true, it ignores a fundamental point that Lady Grey makes - that Statesman, Recluse and Hero One were all "simple men" when they found the well and gained its power, and that what sets up the player character apart is that he or she is already almost at their level before taking on the power of the Well. This is what opens the door to both not being controlled and gaining even greater power.

The Well responds to "power" as said in the text, but this infers GREAT power, because what the well seeks is the strongest of all creatures irrespective of their morality. The well wouldn't and shouldn't be interested in menial tasks, and would most probably not be interested in self-imposed challenges, so much as acts of great power and progress. After all, what poses the danger of being taken over by the well for the Statesman is trying to increase his power beyond his already considerable limits. This, in turn, infers that where real power lies and where real danger lies, as well, is in surpassing your own limits, which isn't doable by imposing limiting rules.

The entire spirit of the Incarnate storyline is "be stronger so you can be even stronger." In this, it's practically Dragonball Z (part of why I like it so much), and for that to be restricted to a much lower level is like putting Goku against Mr. Satan - not much is accomplished, not much is proven, not much progress is made.
Pardon me for beign pedantic, but isn't the greatest measure of power the ability, will, and wisdom of knowing when NOT to apply it? Or is it just the one who can hit the hardest?

Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued

"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque

 

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Originally Posted by Toony View Post
No thanks, please. I've already heard talk in game of people considering denying others from teams if they don't have a rare slotted. I don't want to be locked out of current content by players who feel it's now necessary or because all that is being run is the super special Incarnate version.

How about instead people just unslot the rare they have and run it like normal?
Although I wouldn't do it myself, I think anyone can form a team of their own and put any strictures they want on it. People are free to disagree and not team with that person, but they can choose to experience the game on their own terms. Isn't that what all this sturm-and-drang is about anyway??

Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued

"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque

 

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Originally Posted by Toony View Post
I don't remember if they were called that, only that they gave +radiance (hence radiant) which you had to have or you'd be fighting an impossible battle as you'd have like 8 dread (meaning you'd probably walk in with 1/100th of your health or something.)
I wasn't being serious - I was just making a joke base on radient = shiny/glossy

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Originally Posted by Toony View Post
No thanks, please. I've already heard talk in game of people considering denying others from teams if they don't have a rare slotted. I don't want to be locked out of current content by players who feel it's now necessary or because all that is being run is the super special Incarnate version.

How about instead people just unslot the rare they have and run it like normal?
And this is stopping you from making your own teams...?

When you depend on others to make your teams for you, well, you get what you're given.

Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize

 

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Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt View Post
And this is stopping you from making your own teams...?

When you depend on others to make your teams for you, well, you get what you're given.
Again, why can't you just unslot your alpha?

I see no real reason to spend extra dev resources and time to create a new mode for every taskforce because players are too lazy to unslot their level shift. If you can't be bothered, then deal with easy mode or don't get your rare.

 

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Originally Posted by galadiman View Post
Pardon me for beign pedantic, but isn't the greatest measure of power the ability, will, and wisdom of knowing when NOT to apply it? Or is it just the one who can hit the hardest?
No, that's the greatest measure of wisdom, and is indeed what defines the Statesman. The Statesman, in his approach to moderation and self-control, is actually combating the Well and both its influence and power. The well looks for power and the will to use it. It looks for people who want more power, and to them it gives more power, in the hope that they will lose themselves to the power and become its pawns.

It's true that this is exactly what we want to avoid, but it's also true that this is what attracts people to it. It's as close to a deal with the devil as it gets without actually involving the devil. The well doesn't need cautious, reserved individuals who only use power when absolutely necessary and generally don't expressly need it. It seeks out beings who both exhibit and crave more power for whatever reason.

The Well gives powers to those who seek power, that's what it comes down to.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
It's as close to a deal with the devil as it gets without actually involving the devil.
Are you SURE it doesn't involve the devil?

 

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Originally Posted by LISAR View Post
Are you SURE it doesn't involve the devil?
I'm sure it doesn't involve "the devil" as that term is used in language because the game generally shuns Christian mythology, preferring instead to use vague terms for compatible entities, such as the Prince of Demons or Rularuu the Ravager. I'm fairly certain that the power behind the Well is neither of those two.

Are we making a deal with a figurative devil? Sure, I'll buy that. Are we making a deal with THE devil? No, we are not, because he doesn't exist in the City of Heroes universe, and never will for reasons of out-of-game business sense.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by Toony View Post
Again, why can't you just unslot your alpha?
Scenario:

You used to drive a Mustang. One of the 2007 ones. Recently, you went through a long and dedicated process to save up for a Bugatti Veyron. You get the Veyron, and you drive it on the same roads you've always driven. You find it much easier to drive now that you have a Veyron, and you wish you had more winding roads. You decide to carpool with a friend. That friend listens to you wish for more winding roads. Friend says you should go back to the Mustang.

That's the situation here. Asking me to unslot my Alpha just because it will give me more power during a TF is like asking me to stop driving a Veyron just because it performs much better on the same roads you've driven.

No I will not unslot my Alpha. Come on.

EDIT: I wish there was an in-game way of increasing your character's mission difficulty to prevent Rare Alpha users from fighting -1's by applying a mission level change. OH WAIT.

"Unslot your Alpha" is a stupid thing to suggest when there's a difficulty system in place that allows you to tailor the strength of your enemies to the strength of your character.

My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
I'm sure it doesn't involve "the devil" as that term is used in language because the game generally shuns Christian mythology, preferring instead to use vague terms for compatible entities, such as the Prince of Demons or Rularuu the Ravager. I'm fairly certain that the power behind the Well is neither of those two.

Are we making a deal with a figurative devil? Sure, I'll buy that. Are we making a deal with THE devil? No, we are not, because he doesn't exist in the City of Heroes universe, and never will for reasons of out-of-game business sense.
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing Statesman he didn't exist.

 

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Originally Posted by Toony View Post
Again, why can't you just unslot your alpha?

I see no real reason to spend extra dev resources and time to create a new mode for every taskforce because players are too lazy to unslot their level shift. If you can't be bothered, then deal with easy mode or don't get your rare.
I see.

So not only should team-makers bend over backwards to accommodate you, the Devs should scrap any ideas they have for Incarnate content to accommodate you as well?

Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize

 

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Originally Posted by LISAR View Post
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing Statesman he didn't exist.
The Devil convinced Statesman that Statesman doesn't exist?
That is an awesome trick.
If only I could do that with my boss at work...

There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"

 

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Originally Posted by Twisted Toon View Post
The Devil convinced Statesman that Statesman doesn't exist?
That is an awesome trick.
If only I could do that with my boss at work...
I'm pretty sure that happened in Planescape Torment at some point.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
I'm pretty sure that happened in Planescape Torment at some point.
It's in a memory, triggered at the Brothel of Slating Intellectual Lusts, triggered by talking to... Delnora? Lenora? The clockwork-girl, and engaging her in debate.

"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."