I take back what I said.

There is no right or wrong in the Incarnate System or it's Implementation, only a bunch of differing opinions on various aspects of the system.

Personally, I look forward to the day when it will be the Faatim the Kind TF, and I say this without a shadow of sarcasm. This one is painful to run, admittedly, but it's one of the few TFs I actually like, because it has to do with the Shadow Shard - one of the game's best settings - and unlike all other Shard TFs isn't completely stupid. I still have the full monument verse as a souvenir for Samuel Tow, and for quite a while I was able to take some degree of pride with that since TFs didn't give souvenirs for several years after they broke.

What I am concerned about - if ever so slightly - is what happens if they pick a WTF that caps a level below 50, like, say, the Ernesto Hess TF? Granted, it will be doable, but it might be odd to have your sole source of Incarnate progress be a task that exemplars away your Incarnate powers. And that's not just idle doom-searching. If they are planning to use this idea for what I think they're planning to use it - which is to say as a recurring mechanic to incite people to mix up their TFs - then this would have to include ALL TFs, not just level cap ones. Of course, it's possible that they won't include lower-level TFs until we get to I20 and the "other means" open up, but at that point I fear we may run out of level cap TFs.

Honest question: How many level cap TFs are there that can either be done by both sides or have a counterpart on the villain-side? STF vs. RSF is easy, as are Khan vs. Barakuda, but the Shard TFs? And is that really it? Those two plus ITF, Lady Grey, Tin Mage, Apex? Am I forgetting something? Purely going off memory here.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

You are more than welcome!

I think that being concerned over what others think enough for it to alter ones sense of self and wellbeing is unhealthy.

Sister Psyche and Silver Mantis apparently (February 22nd to February 28th).

I dunno about that one to be honest. And it does mean we get to do sub-50 content in the 'grind' for Very Rare Alpha Slots.

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I'd like the Shard TFs end up there, but as it is now, I doubt it'll happen. As you mention, there's not enough parity between the two sides in terms of TF content.

I was too slow on the delete button, but I CAN confirm that the post which was quoted did indeed exist at one point.

And I don't recall mentioning or implying self-worth. If anything, I was implying that browbeating people and taking pride that you don't care about their feelings isn't exactly something I'd personally describe as a positive character trait, especially in an environment that people constantly insist has to be social and sociable.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I agree. Plus, if they crank out a Dr. Q, we can choose double merits. That's 400+ merits in one (painful) run. Not shabby.

I've skipped a lot of low-level TFs. I'd welcome doing them on my 50's, and remember, the WST will grant rewards to non-50 characters in the form of a gigantic chunk of XP (always good). So it'd be worth it to me across the board. Others, less so, I'm sure.

There are a handful, and I'm sure we'll cycle through non-50 stuff, considering the rewards I mentioned above.

Huh... OK, I did not expect that. Seriously. Why put a post-level-cap reward tied to content that will exemplar you about half of the way down? I could see the Apex and Tin Mage TFs being labelled as Incarnate content (which they are), since they assume you have Incarnate powers, and I could kind of see the other level cap content since it doesn't care if you do or don't have it. But putting Incarnate rewards behind content which assumes and ensures that you DON'T have Incarnate powers?

Am I seriously the only one that finds this incredibly odd?

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I find it odd too. I understand why, it's to get people running that content 'again' for those who want to. It's a bit of an annoying carrot if you don't want to exemplar down [I personally don't], and it does cause a bit of immersion disconnect. Since if it's good enough to get the Well's notice, why isn't it good enough for the Well to help. Mechanically, I understand it and agree with the premise, just story-wise it stings.

That's about my only solace in it, and well, it'll make it easier for me to get those TF badges when it comes to that at least.

Hahahahahaha....

Let me explain. The WTF reward is required to create the Very Rare boost, and if you're shooting for one of those, it means you already have at least one Rare boost. So suppose you're shooting for a Very Rare and you end up doing a TF that exemplars you to level 25? Exemplaring below level 50 disables your Incarnate boosts, meaning you're fighting for Incarnate power... Without Incarnate power.

Not only that, but you're doing content that people of a vastly lower level of power are doing at that time. The idea behind the "Exemplar" system as a concept was that a hero would hold back his full power so as to demonstrate to a weaker, less experienced hero how to handle his own powers at his current level. The Well of the Furies, by contrast, "is neither good nor evil. It responds to power alone." as per Mender Ramiel. You're not showing power. You are, in fact, showing the opposite of power by holding back, possibly even getting defeated for it.

I'm not saying it's not doable or that it won't be done, but rather that it just seems... Really odd. In the future when we divorce NotW drops from the WTF, I could see that, as the system will have a different basic purpose. But right now? Strange, strange decisions going on.

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Put it this way - I ***** and moan about doing TFs, but even I will do TFs on occasion. Hell, I ran a few just last week. I ain't exemplaring down to run them, however. No way, no how. Never have, never will. Don't like losing powers I've grown to rely on. Rare or no Rare.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I'll give you that, as that's something I was arguing against before the issue hit. I figure I might as well give it a shot rather than freak out about it, though I will miss Soul Transfer.

Who knows, maybe I'll experience deja vu and this whole "well that wasn't so bad" feeling will return. Time will tell, as it always has in this game when changes arise.

Next time I'm just going to wait and keep my mouth shut, heh.

Hey, I'm not saying you shouldn't. Hell, I'm not even saying it's a bad thing, just bizarre. At this point, the Incarnate system is incapable of affecting me, as I simply gave up all investment I could have had for it and I'm filing the whole thing under "Set Inventions" until things change. That's what I've been saying all along.

I hope it works out for you. I certainly don't want other people to be pissed off just because I don't like something. Who does that help? I just hope you can swallow a grain of salt large enough to dehydrate ten men if you plan to acknowledge the conceptual mess that prospect presents

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Or maybe you'll have a "I really hate Vahzilok" moment when it's Positron .

I know that's my goal.

There are many ways of demonstrating one's power, and there's the tiny little point that even on low level TFs you are still demonstrating power, just the basic powers. One has to learn to walk, before you can learn to run. Remember, that there is a fast way of gaining power, and there is a slow way of gaining power. Granted we're all forced to take the slow way... and yet again, we are forced once more. Are we really in control, even if we're not under control of the well?

While that's true, it ignores a fundamental point that Lady Grey makes - that Statesman, Recluse and Hero One were all "simple men" when they found the well and gained its power, and that what sets up the player character apart is that he or she is already almost at their level before taking on the power of the Well. This is what opens the door to both not being controlled and gaining even greater power.

The Well responds to "power" as said in the text, but this infers GREAT power, because what the well seeks is the strongest of all creatures irrespective of their morality. The well wouldn't and shouldn't be interested in menial tasks, and would most probably not be interested in self-imposed challenges, so much as acts of great power and progress. After all, what poses the danger of being taken over by the well for the Statesman is trying to increase his power beyond his already considerable limits. This, in turn, infers that where real power lies and where real danger lies, as well, is in surpassing your own limits, which isn't doable by imposing limiting rules.

The entire spirit of the Incarnate storyline is "be stronger so you can be even stronger." In this, it's practically Dragonball Z (part of why I like it so much), and for that to be restricted to a much lower level is like putting Goku against Mr. Satan - not much is accomplished, not much is proven, not much progress is made.

This is an obvious placeholder and a klude, but one would have at least expected them to run out of level cap content before they went down, at least until they implemented the "proper" way.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

We'll all need to act very responsibly then.

I sure hope the devs aren't of the mindset of telling the soloers in this game 'maybe its time you found a new game'.

It would be better, smarter, and pretty damn easy, to provide a solo route for incarnate abilities, as they are released, to keep players like the guy you quoted. I'm glad you like the task force route, but just telling the solo players who want to be able to get the incarnate abilities to basically get lost is ridiculous.

The difference between the two arguments is this:

You want it your way - everyone has to team to get the new incarnate abilities, and if you don't like it, leave.

The other side wants a solo option, but is fine with there also being a team option for those that enjoy that kind of playstyle, the same exact way the initial part of the alpha slot worked with shards.

If you can't see who is being more unreasonable here, it could be because you're too close to the problem to see it. And this is coming from someone who almost never solos, and if there was no teaming in this game, I'd have left a long time ago.

Actually, I suspect that either the Well is having a multiple personality disorder, or there is something else other than the Well which is calling the shots. After all, the Well as we currently know wouldn't be the one who made itself dissappear so you have to take the long road (and not be a peon, willing or otherwise).

YMMV.

I haven't seen a single LRSF form since this started and I'm on one of the most populous servers.

I have seen a handful of STF's but every single on request support (don't play it) or that everyone have IO's (don't use them often). They wouldn't take my scrapper nor would they take that stalker.

I have no problem with you challenging them. I have problems with people latched to the devs buttocks who demand everyone wait three years before pointing out the games flaws.

My problem is the incarnate system is designed to make me want to play my 50's. Why do my 50's need to team? They are also obviously level advancement (Level 50+1=51). Why is my level progression being gated by taskforces?

There is 0 difference to me between this and requiring me to run the ITF 5 times to get to level 40.

And this is my concern. This is what happened to LOTRO and it killed the game for alot of us there. You want to do the new content? Okay but first you need your radiant leggings....and your radiant helm...and your radiant gloves, boots, cape, chestpiece, shouldergaurds, and your first age weapon before you can do any of this new content. And all that stuff is going to require you to dedicate probably more time then it even took you to get to level cap, and you need to do it all teamed.

And I really don't want COH turning into that. I don't want to see I25 come out with this awesome cool Taskforce that advances the story and I read the stipulation that I need my very rare, 5 level shifts, my judgement slot, etc etc etc. I liked when an issue came and bam, we could start doing the content there. The worst it ever got was Cimerora being blocked by an arc you could knock out in a half hour which really isn't comparable to having to possibly run a dozen task forces.

Of course it might not happen this way but I really doubt the devs will shift everyone to 60 and then keep making content designed for 50 with no level shift so that everyone can take their now 60's and breeze through it with no challenge in 10 minutes. Would you design content that way? I wouldn't. Since it isn't actual leveling, I don't see how exemplaring would work with this and even if it did, then what is the point of the shift? I get to 60 and then can do nothing with it because everythings designed for 50?

Someones going to get screwed over by this. Either soloers and people who ignore this system or those who use the system itself. I got a feeling it'll be the former.

I never knew they had the liquid look in Middle-earth

I don't remember if they were called that, only that they gave +radiance (hence radiant) which you had to have or you'd be fighting an impossible battle as you'd have like 8 dread (meaning you'd probably walk in with 1/100th of your health or something.)

Sounds familiar to the incarnate TF's -4ing you if you don't have your special alpha slotted. It's called gear gating.

Because the WST is more than the incarnate content (in fact, the "real" way to get the incarnate stuff comes in I20, this is just a bonus) everyone gets something nie from doing the WST.