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It took me until my mid-40s to feel like I was decent at all. The challenge was fun and I liked being one of the few Ice Tanks around, though. I can't speak to the numbers as much as others who will respond to you, but once I hit those upper levels, I became pretty badass.
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Originally Posted by Redd35
How is the survivability of Ice? |
Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers
Ice Armor is probably the worst set in the game for PvE right now. It only gives S/L and E/N defenses, and only caps Cold resistance. It provides a very small amount of Fire and Toxic resistance. The self-healing is not reliable due to the long recharge. The defense debuff resistance is around 50%, which is not high enough to ignore heavy defense debuffs without consuming purple inspirations. It does have debuffs to reduce incoming damage, but the mitigation from them does not make up for the weaknesses of the set.
If you want to play it, go ahead. Any Tanker set can perform the role required of a Tanker. Teammates' buffs, your playstyle, and strategy can help overcome numerical disadvantages of any set.
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S/L and E/N are a large majority of damage types. Cold resistance is maxed, and you can get a fair bit of Fire resistance through IO's, as well as Fire/Cold defense through IO's and Energy Absorption. You have immunity to slows with EA on(Hello Tin Mage). 50% DDR is sufficient considering you can get your S/L/E/N defense far far beyond the softcap with regular use of EA. You have the best Aggro management tools, a damage aura, and a great endurance management tool in EA. You have one of the best tier 9's in Hibernate.|
Originally Posted by Syntax42
Ice Armor is probably the worst set in the game for PvE right now. It only gives S/L and E/N defenses, and only caps Cold resistance. It provides a very small amount of Fire and Toxic resistance. The self-healing is not reliable due to the long recharge. The defense debuff resistance is around 50%, which is not high enough to ignore heavy defense debuffs without consuming purple inspirations. It does have debuffs to reduce incoming damage, but the mitigation from them does not make up for the weaknesses of the set.
If you want to play it, go ahead. Any Tanker set can perform the role required of a Tanker. Teammates' buffs, your playstyle, and strategy can help overcome numerical disadvantages of any set. |
Saying Ice Armor is the worst doesn't do it justice... Sure the other sets can pull ahead with IO's, but Ice Armor is pretty good before IO's and stays solid(pun intended) after IO's.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
It's not bad, but not great. Think of Hibernate as Combat Rest, and you've got the idea. It's a bit like SR - those things that do evade your defense tend to hit you hard. Psi bosses, in particular, are a pain.
It synergizes very well with Kinetic Melee - You'll be stacking lots of -damage on your foes. Mine's 37 at the moment. Once he gets Darkest Night from Soul Mastery, I'll be running some tests to see just how much -damage I can stack on a hard target.
Shields is probably a fundamentally better set, and also stacks on some -damage.
Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!
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Not sure I could disagree more. Ice Armor is far from the worst. Ice is an aggro king, and works wonders with a tightly-packed mob or two. You're almost completely immune to slows (I don't even noticed Knives of Artemis and their caltrop patches). Energy Absorption is an amazing endurance recovery tool AND a way to get yourself high over the softcap, which typically negates whatever the DDR can't handle. |
Originally Posted by Syntax42
Ice Armor is probably the worst set in the game for PvE right now. It only gives S/L and E/N defenses, and only caps Cold resistance. It provides a very small amount of Fire and Toxic resistance. The self-healing is not reliable due to the long recharge. The defense debuff resistance is around 50%, which is not high enough to ignore heavy defense debuffs without consuming purple inspirations. It does have debuffs to reduce incoming damage, but the mitigation from them does not make up for the weaknesses of the set.
If you want to play it, go ahead. Any Tanker set can perform the role required of a Tanker. Teammates' buffs, your playstyle, and strategy can help overcome numerical disadvantages of any set. |
It is true that whatever makes it through will hit pretty hard, but picking up Tough will help with that somewhat. You also have the best combat rest in the game (gets you back to full health/end before your aggro wears off) and a nice HP+ power for the tough situations.
Some active damage mitigation (KDs, Stuns, Etc...) will add to your survivability. As has been mentioned, that added -Dam in KM will be nice (there's an -11% Dam in Chilling Embrace). Throw on Darkest Night in the PPP, and you'd be pretty golden.
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LMAO> i totally disagree. I have an Ice/Kin melee tank. s/l/e/n are all softcapd and with EA im hitting in the mid 60s in %s and in teh 70's with a purple. Can easily tank AVs for a team. Wife and i ran the new alpha slots missions and i never went below the M in Menu at the top of the screen. You wont have to worry about Toxic as much as nrg and snl. |
Originally Posted by Syntax42
Ice Armor is probably the worst set in the game for PvE right now. It only gives S/L and E/N defenses, and only caps Cold resistance. It provides a very small amount of Fire and Toxic resistance. The self-healing is not reliable due to the long recharge. The defense debuff resistance is around 50%, which is not high enough to ignore heavy defense debuffs without consuming purple inspirations. It does have debuffs to reduce incoming damage, but the mitigation from them does not make up for the weaknesses of the set.
If you want to play it, go ahead. Any Tanker set can perform the role required of a Tanker. Teammates' buffs, your playstyle, and strategy can help overcome numerical disadvantages of any set. |
To the OP, if you want to see her in action send me a pm. Im on the Justice server.
Im not loving Kin Melee at all, though, to be honest and have an Ice/Mace and maybe even an Ice/SS to take her place. The damage output is ok, but man, all the animations bug me to death while fighting. I wanna smack something and move on. Not dance for a couple seconds and hit it.
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Didn't someone do a quantitative analysis of tank armors and conclude that ice armor was 'middle of the pack'?|
Originally Posted by Syntax42
Ice Armor is probably the worst set in the game for PvE right now.
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Anyway, I think it's a fine set. I've taken ice armor to level 50 and it's one of the few tanks where I didn't bother with the Fighting pool because he didn't seem to need it.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
I recently rolled an ice/ice tank and I love him! Keep in mind he is my first and only tank, but I have rarely seen him fall. Infact, I was recently in an it'd with a stone tank and he fell once and my guy never saw red.
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I always thought Ice was in upper ranks? Personally, I have level 50 Ice/Ice Tank, and I have out-tanked quite a few tanks in my time. Definitely an aggro king, and really good survivability with defense and CE, and you get Hoarfrost and Hibernate to keep you standing, and EA to add to your defense and give you endurance, and helps keep the bad guys focused on you. The synergy with Ice Melee works quite well, but I have read of quite a few builds that do well with other melee sets.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Didn't someone do a quantitative analysis of tank armors and conclude that ice armor was 'middle of the pack'?
Anyway, I think it's a fine set. I've taken ice armor to level 50 and it's one of the few tanks where I didn't bother with the Fighting pool because he didn't seem to need it. |
As well, it is not too difficult to softcap four defense types: S/L and E/N.
All in all, Ice Armor rocks and works. Don't let anyone tell you differently.
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I totally and completely disagree with this assessment of Ice as a set. It is far worse from the worst PvE set in the game. I have to wonder in reading this if you have ever actually played an ice tank at all. |
Originally Posted by Syntax42
Ice Armor is probably the worst set in the game for PvE right now. It only gives S/L and E/N defenses, and only caps Cold resistance. It provides a very small amount of Fire and Toxic resistance. The self-healing is not reliable due to the long recharge. The defense debuff resistance is around 50%, which is not high enough to ignore heavy defense debuffs without consuming purple inspirations. It does have debuffs to reduce incoming damage, but the mitigation from them does not make up for the weaknesses of the set.
If you want to play it, go ahead. Any Tanker set can perform the role required of a Tanker. Teammates' buffs, your playstyle, and strategy can help overcome numerical disadvantages of any set. |
Lets take some of your points
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| It only gives S/L and E/N defenses, and only caps Cold resistance. It provides a very small amount of Fire and Toxic resistance. |
Ice does suffer from a lack of resistance. That isnt much different that other defense based sets in the game. However Ice has tools to aid is survival.
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| The self-healing is not reliable due to the long recharge. |
Now with the right slotting this power will come back quite well AND with some investement in your build it can be made PERMA... which in itself is chocolate awesomesauce with a cherry on top.
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| The defense debuff resistance is around 50%, which is not high enough to ignore heavy defense debuffs without consuming purple inspirations. |
Ice not only has Hoarfrost as an incredible survival tool, but it also has Hibernate which will allow you to easily completely fill your end and health bar. If you slot chilling embrace with a little taunt you can actually HOLD The aggro while you are Encased in Ice.
We havent even mentioned how Enegry Absorption will actually BOOST your defense even more AND fill your end bar..
We havent talked about how Ice is pretty much IMMUNE to -recharge attacks if you take PermaFrost as well as Glacial Armor.
Chilling Embrace has a -14% damage and -32% recharge to lower incoming damage.
Ice is a great set and works very well. If you combine it with a /Secondary like Stone or Kin Melee which can effective further reduce incoming damage you will have a very very very powerful tank indeed.
I have a level 50 Ice/Stone and it can handle anything. And I will have perma Hoarfrost very very soon.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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I agree with everyone else in the post except for "Mr. Let me refer to Mids and City Data". I mean......why even answer the post if you really don't know. Sigh. |
Originally Posted by Syntax42
Ice Armor is probably the worst set in the game for PvE right now. It only gives S/L and E/N defenses, and only caps Cold resistance. It provides a very small amount of Fire and Toxic resistance. The self-healing is not reliable due to the long recharge. The defense debuff resistance is around 50%, which is not high enough to ignore heavy defense debuffs without consuming purple inspirations. It does have debuffs to reduce incoming damage, but the mitigation from them does not make up for the weaknesses of the set.
If you want to play it, go ahead. Any Tanker set can perform the role required of a Tanker. Teammates' buffs, your playstyle, and strategy can help overcome numerical disadvantages of any set. |
Ice/SS works well together. Knockdown, Knockup etc....add to mitigation. EA is the perfect power to use during the rage crash. When rage crashes, your attacks are weak, you lose endurance, and if you do not stack rage, you lose some defense. Well.......since you dont really want to attack, use EA. It will replenish your end bar that just dropped and it will add defense which also just dropped. And kills a little time during the crash.
Heard while my Ice/Axe was tanking - and surviving - the Ambush at the dais at the end of the first the first mission of the ITF:
"I never saw a tank survive so much damage!" (Not that I was taking all that much)
Worst set in PVE. Riiiiiight.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Anyone who definitively states that there is a "worst set" for anything is probably not worth listening to.
Ice definitely has its role, and that role is handling large mobs and keeping ALL of the aggro. It has the most effective taunt aura in the game (Chilling Embrace) and Icicles to go with it. One of your questions concerned how difficult it was to get to the soft-cap? You can hit the soft-cap without any IO investment at all, thanks to Energy Absorption. I believe it's the only set in the game that can claim that, though I could be wrong.
To me, Ice is one of the most fun sets to play. I rolled an Ice/Fire, and despite the complete lack of mitigation of Fire, I very rarely faceplanted in regular team-play, and I didn't pick up Hibernate until 49 for a slot filler.
Ice is not weak by any means, but you will need some solid support for a few things in the game, namely the 54 AV's in the STF, and (I would assume) the Incarnate task forces as well. 54's are a little tough for a defense based set without some decent team support. I have tanked Recluse on my Ice before, but I had to rely on Hibernate and orange inspirations quite heavily. I've never run the Incarnate task forces on him.
If you plan on IO'ing the tank, achieving the S/L/E/N soft-cap with one target in range is very little challenge at all. I have yet to IO mine, but I am most certainly focusing on regeneration and recharge, to get Hoarfrost up as much as possible and to be able to heal off any damage that gets through my defenses when HF is down.
Ice is a blast, and one of my absolute favorite sets. And I never once looked at my toon and though "Damn, wish I'd rolled a [insert any other tanker primary here]."
I'm enjoying my Ice/Electric tanker; I just hit 31 and I've been soft capped to S/L/E/N damage since 29. I just got off of a Citadel TF and had no difficulty whatsoever with durability; twice I used Dull Pain... er, Hoarfrost, other than that I had no problems and didn't even use a single inspiration.
Yes, I've seen high level Ice tanks who were flimsy as a wet paper bag but they had to have build issues; this tanker is just fine. Yes, it's going to come in below Shield and certainly Invuln for durability but it surpasses them in aggro management... I've never played a tank that grabbed aggro faster or held it better.
Ice has it's good points and bad points; on the whole it's probably a mid range tanker in survivability... it's a long way from the worst.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
I dont really see a problem at all. I can easily handle mobs of +8 with bosses. And to be honest, i dont know of any tank that can handle +4 AVs and bosses without a team.
Ive already showed the OP my ice tank and how she handles mobs. If anyone has any doubts on ice's survivability, just ask for a demonstration. It's even paired with Kin Melee which really dont have any other mitigation. No slows, ice patches, knockdowns, knockups.
My level 50 Ice/Stone can handle pretty much anything thrown at it. I have to agree its not as strong as my Inv but it is definitely not the WORST set.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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I tanked an ITF over the weekend and at the end when I was tanking Rommie one of the members said "Man you're a great Ice Tank!" I took it as a compliment, but I there's a little backhand to that compliment.|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Heard while my Ice/Axe was tanking - and surviving - the Ambush at the dais at the end of the first the first mission of the ITF:
"I never saw a tank survive so much damage!" (Not that I was taking all that much) Worst set in PVE. Riiiiiight. |
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Sounds back-handed to me |
Originally Posted by Dromio
I tanked an ITF over the weekend and at the end when I was tanking Rommie one of the members said "Man you're a great Ice Tank!" I took it as a compliment, but I there's a little backhand to that compliment.
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, but I'd wager it's also the first time they'd seen a high level ice tank in action.That's one of the things I like about being an ice tanker - there are so few of us left that people don't often get to see how awesome that set can be. I'm a mediocre tanker at best. But I look like a freakin' pro on an ice tank.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
It seems like others have covered it pretty well, but I'll add my 2 cents:
Ice/ is the aggro king. That is ice's "thing" IMHO. I ran the ITF twice on my Ice/SS this weekend - once @ 42 and once @ 46. The first time I was main tank with an Inv/ for offtanking and the second I was the only tank. I had no particular issues either time. Yes, I used a few insps - but against huge mobs of heavy damage defense debuffers... that's to be expected.
The one time I died was a bit odd, I went from 100%+ defense to dead faster than I could see my health bar move. It could have been server lag, who knows, it happens .
The second tf we had a stormy grabbing every mob in sight and dragging them to me where I grabbed their aggro - it was a blast.
As others mentioned, Hoarfrost is not so much a "heal" as it is a +HP buff with a heal component.
/kin will allow for nice -dmg stacking and a little bit fo mitigation with the pbaoe KD but if you don't love the animations it could get old.
Does anyone have an ice/DM tank? That seems like it would be pretty sweet...
Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
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ITFs were made for Ice tanks. You have the roman soldiers that do smashing damage, that we can soft cap with ease. And the dark ones do negative energy, which glacier armor absorbs most of it. Hell, I ran an ITF with a stone tank and we made a bet to see who can faceplant the least and I won! I would say its cause he is a bad stone tank, but their shouldnt be an excuse with granite armor on.
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Originally Posted by Dromio
I tanked an ITF over the weekend and at the end when I was tanking Rommie one of the members said "Man you're a great Ice Tank!" I took it as a compliment, but I there's a little backhand to that compliment.
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My 41 Ice/Shovel (BA) tank is one of my very favourite characters ever.
I have Aid Self slotted for interrupt, so between it, Hoarfrost and my maxed end bar and defense... I never feel even the slightest bit squishy. *shrug*
I am looking forward to the inherent fitness pool change to respec him and add icicles
@VforVegan
The Nauseum (50) Kin/Rad/Psy Defender
Terror Storm (50) Ill/Storm/Ice Controller
Burn Bunny (50) Fire/Kin/Fire Controller
Michael Ebonheart (50) Warshade
Incredible Ism (50) Ill/Emp/Primal Controller
((and too many non-50s to list here...))
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Looking forward to it? Um, you do know that it went live with issue 19 right? Or have you just not yet had a chance to work out a new build and respec into it?|
Originally Posted by VforVegan
My 41 Ice/Shovel (BA) tank is one of my very favourite characters ever.
I have Aid Self slotted for interrupt, so between it, Hoarfrost and my maxed end bar and defense... I never feel even the slightest bit squishy. *shrug* I am looking forward to the inherent fitness pool change to respec him and add icicles |
I'm assuming it's the latter but your post could be taken either way.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Yeah, when defense based characters die it tends to happen like that. Full health to dead in less than a second. If a couple heavy hitters get lucky at the same time it can kill you faster than you can react. |
Originally Posted by Lobster
The one time I died was a bit odd, I went from 100%+ defense to dead faster than I could see my health bar move. It could have been server lag, who knows, it happens . |
On ITFs I've found that you don't want 2 or more of the Minotaur or Cyclops EBs to hit you simultaneously, it's a little painful.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Heh. I meant I am looking forward to getting around to it |
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Looking forward to it? Um, you do know that it went live with issue 19 right? Or have you just not yet had a chance to work out a new build and respec into it?
I'm assuming it's the latter but your post could be taken either way. |
The Ice tank in question was like 2 bubbles off 42, so I decided to wait till he dinged to do it. Sorted it all out last night juuuust before the server went down for the patch, heh. Madly buying SOs, etc while the red text glared at me. Probably only finished with a minute or two to spare.
@VforVegan
The Nauseum (50) Kin/Rad/Psy Defender
Terror Storm (50) Ill/Storm/Ice Controller
Burn Bunny (50) Fire/Kin/Fire Controller
Michael Ebonheart (50) Warshade
Incredible Ism (50) Ill/Emp/Primal Controller
((and too many non-50s to list here...))
Hi there, few questions.
How is the survivability of Ice?
Does it take a large effort to reach the softcap?
Does it have any synergy with Kinetic Melee?
In time, I'll come to forgive you.