Issue 19: Strike Pack - Patch notes for build 1950.201101250108.0
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-01-27 11:45 in The Global Training Room Test Server
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You make fair points, although my question remains unanswered.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
To advance your Alpha Slot from 40% of what it can so (Tier 2) to 90% of what it can do (Tier 3), all you need to do is 1 (one) Task/Strike Force.
If you want to wring out all of what the Alpha Slot can do with 100% of its benefits (Tier 4), you need to do 3 (three) more Task/Strike Forces. Since you can only get the Notice of the Well once per week, and the targeted Strask Force changes each week, that means if you're really going to go for that final 10% of the Alpha Slot, you'll need to do a total of 4 (four) *different* Strask Forces. Then you will be done for that toon's Alpha Slot. The end. That is not the breathless "grinding the same content til your eyes bleed" that you make it out to be. And to anticipate the usual altaholic's lament: The game is not balanced around 40 alts. If you have that many alts, you need to do that much work 40 times over, just like you have to level up to 50 forty times over. One Strask Force for the real meat of the Alpha Slot. Three more *different ones* for a relatively much smaller tweak and completion. If that makes your eyes bleed, then there isn't a MMO on the market that will satisfy you. |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Oh yeah? What did you have to do unlock the Ruby and Diamond KittyQueen Tiara?
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Originally Posted by warden_de_dios
HelloKittyOnline doesn't make me grind like this.
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Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
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Awesome!|
Originally Posted by Avatea
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I regret about 1 component crafted. Good to know shards wont be waisted.
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Yeah, I took Nerve Radial on for one my PCs. That extra bit of defense really shows if you're near the softcap. Also, took Cardiac on my MA/SR Scrapper than has Recharge out the Wazoo. He burned Endurance like a Humvee -- now he had the energy to keep up with his fast pace.
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Originally Posted by Soul_Stormer
i'm going nerve on my controller's melee build. the additional defense from the uncommon has pushed me very close to soft-capped and the rare should get me there if not the ultra-rare. the hold and potentially confuse boosts will help as well. the only other one i could go is spiritual as i'm kinetics - musculature and cardiac don't really help much - and i'm using spiritual on the teaming build.
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Gank noobs in Gumdrop Gully.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Oh yeah? What did you have to do unlock the Ruby and Diamond KittyQueen Tiara?
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Seriously those 9 year old girls need to lrn2PVP
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Shards are still obtainable through non-Strask Force methods just as they were to get to Tiers 1 & 2.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
You make fair points, although my question remains unanswered.
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And just like one or two LGTF or ITFs were enough to craft up to Tier 2, then, if you want the upper tiers quickly, than it's 6 Strask Forces to get to Very Rare instead of 4. Otherwise, it will take longer with any other 'normal' level 50 content.
But, for that sweet, sweet Level Shift, if you already have your Tier 2 and have been playing level 50 content and have a bunch of spare shards; then the first Tuesday the Targeted Strike starts, you will need only do one Strask Force and bam!, you're Level Shifted.
What happens with the other slots has been responded to by Black Scorpion and has been roundly discussed in the other threads.
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I understand quite well how the system works, chief. No need to talk down to me or treat me like I don't know what's up.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Shards are still obtainable through non-Strask Force methods just as they were to get to Tiers 1 & 2.
And just like one or two LGTF or ITFs were enough to craft up to Tier 2, then, if you want the upper tiers quickly, than it's 6 Strask Forces to get to Very Rare instead of 4. Otherwise, it will take longer with any other 'normal' level 50 content. But, for that sweet, sweet Level Shift, if you already have your Tier 2 and have been playing level 50 content and have a bunch of spare shards; then the first Tuesday the Targeted Strike starts, you will need only do one Strask Force and bam!, you're Level Shifted. What happens with the other slots has been responded to by Black Scorpion and has been roundly discussed in the other threads. |
Let me rephrase: If the WST isn't a level 50-enabled task/strike, isn't that a bit of an inconvenience? I mean, we can't have an option to get both shards and Well favors/notices during the same run? They're both for the same goal, right?
Chalk that one up to convenience, but with the way this game's been in the past you'd think the path of least resistance would still be the way to go (CoP trial notwithstanding).
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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True, but the level one to fifty system forces us to get powers and slots in a particular order. We cannot level from 40 to 41 and unlock Epic #1, then level from 41 to 44 and unlock Epic #2, then level from 44 to 42 and pick up slots. In the Incarnate system, we can. I think that is a valuable additional feature.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
You mean unlike how, when we level up a toon, we get a new power, then we work to put six slots in it, then we put in a set of six Purple recipes, *THEN* work to open up the next power?
You're like proposing a system where we gain powers on a regular basis, and before they're maxed with enhancements... we start working on obtaining and enhancing new powers! That's crazy talk! No one is capable of such complicated multi-tasking! Madness!  |
Madness? THIS IS ALPHA!
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This makes me giddy. And my magic 8-ball thinks it bodes well for some sort of beastly run in the animal booster pack.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
 Tip toe, through the tulips... |
(I know I know, prolly just setting myself up for disappointment... but sometimes it's fun t' dream!)
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No, no, no. If people are displeased with the the product, I strongly encourage them to voice their complaints as often as they wish in any thread that that might even be remotely related.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Hey, Mods, can we please get out the scissors and cut out the solo debate from this thread? It's not on topic and you established an official thread for it, and despite that, it's spilling into every other thread related to 'end-game' and 'incarnate system'.
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So hey, Mods, please don't follow Zombie Man's suggestion.
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*raises hand* I went for the Accuracy branch to get the Defense enhancement. I need a small push to hit the soft cap.| I have yet to meet a damage/accuracy person at all. |
Of course, Accuracy is about the least useful thing an Incarnate ability could enhance. I guess it would have been too obvious if they made it Intangibility.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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Personally, I believe a significant fraction of the WSTs *should* be lower task forces, if for no other reason than to make sure the devs do not give the impression that level 50s will always be catered to by making sure featured content always drops shards for them. If the devs decide to make a new zone event that happens to be intrinsicly level 30 rather than 50, I do not want it to be said that the devs have an obligation to make sure that content drops shards, or else the devs are screwing level 50 players without cause. Given that, I think the precedent should be set here that this is not the future rule for featured content.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Let me rephrase: If the WST isn't a level 50-enabled task/strike, isn't that a bit of an inconvenience? I mean, we can't have an option to get both shards and Well favors/notices during the same run? They're both for the same goal, right?
Chalk that one up to convenience, but with the way this game's been in the past you'd think the path of least resistance would still be the way to go (CoP trial notwithstanding). |
I wouldn't mind if the first two were level fifty task forces to start releasing that pent up demand for wells, but I would not want say, four in a row to be level 50 task forces which essentially send the message that the WST is essentially a high level thing only.
Another possibility: make two WSTs, staggered. Every Tuesday, announce a non-50 one. Every Friday, announce a specifically level 50 one. Each runs for a week, so every Tuesday to Monday a lower level one is active, and every Friday to Thursday a level 50 one is also active. I say its a possibility, but I'm concerned having more than one simultaneously will dilute the playerbase between them, and destroy the overriding point of the WSTs, which is almost certainly to focus attention on one specific activity at a time that a significant fraction of the playerbase will converge on. And we can't make the cycle times shorter than one week to get more WSTs cycling through, because a lot of players play weekends. Each WST has to cover a weekend at least. And of course it doubles the rate of well -earning, which the devs might not want.
We might actually have to see at least one live week of WST to see what the playerbase can handle with regard to frequency and dilution of WST targets.
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Something I think a few people are missing is that the Alpha slot is based on IO sets, which Positron also had a hand in designing.
After Tier 1, all the other tiers are simply a bonus - and the more tiers you get,m the more bonuses you get - but they're not required for the Incarnate content at all.
To access the Incarnate content, you just need to run Mender Ramiel's arc - and if you want to avoid the big debuff on the Alpha TFs, you'll need 12 Shards for the 1st Tier enhancement - but after that, you don't need to do anything else - the 2nd Tier enhancement is an optional bonus - the 3rd Tier enhancement and level shift is an optional bonus, and the 4th Tier enhancmenet is an optional bonus.
Just like an IO set, the more parts you have, the more bonuses you get, but you don't need them to play the game - you can slot 2 parts of "Ragnarok", for example, and not bother with the other 4 parts - you'll miss the bonuses they bring, but it won't make the game any harder for you - just like you can slot the Tier 1 Alpha and not bother with the other 3 Tiers - you'll still get access to the Incarnate content, and it won't be any harder for you.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Went Musculature Core on my Mind/Psi Dom. While I know I don't have any Defense Debuff, I am looking forward to the 45% boosts so my primary attacks (Dominate, Terrify, Lift) are cranked up significantly and gives my secondary even more orange-number oomph.
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Originally Posted by Djeannie
I have yet to meet a damage/accuracy person at all.
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Ewww, gross, gross, gross. I'd really hoped this whole Well thing was going to eliminate the "two rares" bit that had been posted before. I shouldn't be surprised, but that's what I get for trying to be optimistic. That's just really ridiculous. Everything else, including the Rares, is crafted from a previous one, so one progresses to the other. But crafting the Very Rare requires a second completely useless Rare? Seriously?|
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios
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I wouldn't mind if the requirements were effectively the same or required two Favors or whatever. But must it be something that so overtly screams filler?
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Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
Try for a sense of perspective, try to see what other posters are seeing.
When the next several game updates are devoted entirely to something you paid extra money to do, but now discover that you can't get involved in due to real life obligations...how does that qualify as "rage?" Couldn't their opinions at least be worth respectfully disagreeing with, without a dismissive "u mad? kthnxbai." FYI, this stuff is on test for us to...test. Part of testing is providing feedback. |
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Hey, Mods, can we please get out the scissors and cut out the solo debate from this thread? It's not on topic and you established an official thread for it, and despite that, it's spilling into every other thread related to 'end-game' and 'incarnate system'.
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...Hang on. I'm not sure wether Dumple is saying pro-solo or pro-team posters should try some perspective...
Ah, hell. Perspective is still needed.
I think, for a Test Server thread, this is perfectly valid feedback. And, for something people have paid extra for as mentioned, and for something that was touted as end level progression and being about making our character the Main Focus and all that...lack of a solo option, even if it was 'only' a large shard cost for conversion, will come back round to bite later on.
/IMO
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Y'ello?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
True, but the level one to fifty system forces us to get powers and slots in a particular order. We cannot level from 40 to 41 and unlock Epic #1, then level from 41 to 44 and unlock Epic #2, then level from 44 to 42 and pick up slots. In the Incarnate system, we can. I think that is a valuable additional feature.
Madness? THIS IS ALPHA! |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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The fact that they'll be giving an added experience reward doesn't rule out the idea that only TF's that max out at level 50 will be in the line-up. All but the Incarnate TF's allow lower level folks to come along and the great XP reward is for them. You are probably right, because there just isn't enough content to support a weekly target of nothing but level 50 TF's. But added experience in and of itself is not proof of intent.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Does that shed any light on the issue?
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My concern is that the WST will make it impossible (not merely highly unlikely) to find a TF that isn't being run at the fastest possible, everyone-scatter, mass-confusion, stealth-every-mission, speed. I think it will also be harder to organize non-speed-run TF's as folks will be wanting to run them as fast as possible on each alt either for the Notice, the Merits, or the Badges.
I think it will encourage people to run the task forces... I just don't think it encourages in the right way. Not like the first few weeks after issue 19 came out and people were running kill-all TF's for shard farming. Now that was an exciting time!
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Agreed as I don't see the issue with L50's performing non-L50 WST since you can always break down the Notice of the Well into shards if those are what you need at that point - in essence any WST can potentially supply shards (for the first run at it each week)...|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Personally, I believe a significant fraction of the WSTs *should* be lower task forces, if for no other reason than to make sure the devs do not give the impression that level 50s will always be catered to by making sure featured content always drops shards for them.
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Likewise, breaking down the basic Incarnate salvage can also be done (albeit for a single shard) for the L50 TF/SF's so I can't see this system as anything but an improvement (aside for those who wish solo content, which will hopefully be addressed at a later date).
I was going to type out a long, ranty and downright mean response that included "I hope the first WST is Dr. Q" but since I don't want to get banned I will stick to asking why so many people feel the need to berate other people for asking for what we want. You got what you wanted. Go play with it.
Besides, I no longer hope Dr. Q is the first TF picked. I hope it's the second, and the STF and RSF are the first. See, they will be easier once people start picking up level shifts, and I would be interested in seeing how many people complain that the WST is "too hard" and "unfair to the casual player" and "not PuG friendly" when it isn't something just anybody can run with any old team with your brain off. I'm a mean and spiteful person sometimes.
Edit: And if I were a meaner person, I'd suggest that they set it so you had to run the WST with temp powers disabled to get your Notice.
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If they cycle through all the TFs, then I think we will get all 4 Shadow Shard ones as WSTs eventually
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I compiled all the current incarnate information here:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251208
Also this is an excerpt, as it qualifies as feedback related to this patch:
I have a comment/question/gripe here, and it pertains to the very rare levels. Each one lists needing two rare powers to be made. However, every single one lists both the partial rare versions as requirements. The two conclusions I can draw from this mean either that it's merely a text bug/limitation and any two rares will do, or in fact the total versions of rares are literally useless to the advancement up the tree. The in-game tree even seems to indicate that the second theory is true.
If this is in fact intended, this means that anyone who creates a [Cardiac Total Core Revamp] cannot use it to make a very rare. This means the total trees are dead-ends and it should be noted ASAP for players to avoid them at all costs, unless they for some reason have no intention of going to very rare. Furthermore, if this is the case and it's intended, it should be immediately reconsidered, because it's an absolutely horrible idea. Especially for unsuspecting players who go this route and waste the time and effort.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I'm kind of puzzled as to the reasoning behind the very steep loss rate for breaking down Favor of the Well. This is a resource that is only obtained through crafting. It can't be traded/bought, it isn't found through drops..
Normally, you would incur such losses when a resource could potentially be obtained 'easily' and you don't want it to result in extra reward without effort. But since that isn't possible for the Favor through anything we've seen, not getting back even the shards you used to craft the favor, much less the two notices.. That's a little bewildering.
For that matter, is it even necessary to have Favor as a discrete component? Why not simply have the recipes for creating the Very Rare include shards and two notices?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.
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I think the WSTs will probably be the same TFs we're currently doing for components, or otherwise TFs where there can be a rough equivalent for each side (Such as doing the 15-20 TF/SF on either side, ie the Synapse TF or Virgil Tarikoss SF). I don't imagine they'd do a TF or SF without a rough equivalent on the other side, since it would be horribly unfair to the villains or heroes who would be left out for that week. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
If they cycle through all the TFs, then I think we will get all 4 Shadow Shard ones as WSTs eventually
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Since there isn't an equivalent group of SFs to go with the 4 Shadow Shard TFs, I doubt we'll ever see them as WSTs. Unless the devs plan to make the Shadow Shard co-op...
HelloKittyOnline doesn't make me grind like this.