Soloability and End Game

First of all, thank you to the developers for asking for our opinions on this subject. As you can see, a lot of people feel strongly about teaming vs soloing.

I am a teamer. I became hooked on CoH for reasons that are exactly the opposite of some comments I see here: because the teaming here beats any other game. I get bored very quickly when playing solo. My entertainment comes from grouping with random people, and finding that our abilities, combined in any number of different ways, make it easy to beat down huge numbers of foes. I like being able to do this in as varied a context as possible; running the ITF 100 times is not appealing to me. I also don't play for, or particularly want, a difficult "challenge." I prefer "thrills." These concepts overlap, but are not the same to me. For example, I do not usually enjoy AV fights in this game, because while they are sometimes challenging, I do not find them thrilling. From my perspective perhaps the most positive change this game has ever made was the addition of "super side kicking" to facilitate earning experience at any level with any team. This change was genius, and is not only the best thing in CoH to me, it's one of the most progressive changes in the history of MMOs.

However, recent changes to the game have pushed me much more in the direction of playing a soloist. I don't feel "forced" per se, but I feel heavily pushed in that direction in order to advance. Making money as a team player is a challenge unless you run a few pieces of content over and over. But the biggest change has come from Praetoria, which split the playerbase, and, ironically, the Apex and Tin Mage Task Forces, which require you to recruit within a very narrow band of characters. These changes to some extent essentially undo the progress that super side kicking made. The other factor is alignment missions, which have further split groups.

It is important to note that in addition to what is explicit about a teaming system, what is implicit is also important. The explicit facts about teaming are there are large numbers of people who want to do it. What is implicit is that finding these people is often more challenging than it could be, that "a team" a person could join is not the same as there being multiple freely available groups running, and that the infrastructure surrounding teaming is simultaneously top notch and frustrating.

Perhaps the most obvious, but often ignored, implication of teaming is that the greater the number of people who want to do it, and the more their goals overlap, the bigger the feedback loop and the better the experience for all people who like to team. The alignment system and Praetoria drove a distinctive wedge through the core of the teaming game. By adding more options, ironically the system became less useful to teamers, because the game previously made no assumptions about motivations.

It may seem strange to some people that I would rather not play than solo, but that is essentially the case. To the extent that I do solo content, it is mostly because a team is not available. You might think that I would have developed an extensive list of contacts who also like to team, but that is really not the case. The reason is that, strangely, the thrill for me comes from meeting up with a bunch of new people over and over. There is something about playing with the same team all the time that feels like I'm retrogressed to soloing stuff. But the other factor there is implicit again: if you end up in a duo or trio, the way mechanics work make it harder rather than easier to be recruited to a larger team.

Of course, you can recruit people yourself. But I don't like to do that either. At this point some may think I'm a hypocrite, but there's more to it. I am a follower. I do not like playing leader, and anecdotal evidence from teams I've been on indicates the same is true for a lot of people. I like being in an environment where there are so many open calls for teams that I can join anyone and not have to think about leading one.

To further lump on the contradictions, I'm not particularly interested in an incredibly difficult end game. I like cooperative play where essentially the challenges validate the usefulness of every powerset choice. For example, content that is not so easy that Defenders and Controllers become useless to Scrappers, but not so dependant on bringing a Defender or Controller that the melees become useless. This is a very difficult design to achieve, but IMO this game comes as close to it as any I've played. The only ATs I have reservations about are Stalkers, mostly because I feel that as "assassins" they don't bring the debuffs they should to single target AV fights.

I do like that people who like to solo have their own content, but I also think they implicitly own a lot more of the game than they think they do. I would like for them to have the ability to achieve end-game goals, but the method in which that is done needs to be careful. If it results in something like the alignment missions, I'm very wary of it just because I already feel pushed with a heavy hand to do those solo. I don't know if its possible to please everyone here--especially not wavering, likes-to-team-but-not-lead-wants-thrilling-but-not-difficult people like me. But given the successes this development team has had in the past, I think that if any group is up to the challenge, it's this one.

In the meantime, one specific thing you could do that would make people like me insanely happy would be a server-wide teaming chat channel. I'm not sure if you're aware that we've all been piling onto "global channels" that only people in the know access, and which fills up eventually. The first time I unsubscribed to this game, it was because I spent 3 weeks standing on a hill in Talos Island looking for a team and being unable to find one, because I didn't know about this chat system.

This is my problem with the current Incarnate progression set up. My playing time is strictly limited. I can play one hour per day, period. That's from the time I log on to the time I HAVE to log off. I have nothing against teaming or TFs, it's I simply don't have the time to do them.

I've joined several "speed" ITFs in the past and have always had to leave before completion. This is not only disappointing for me, but it let's the other players down, and I prefer not to do that.

The Incarnate system was presented as a "leveling" system, not just optional enhancements, like IOs, which aren't necessary to advance your character. Even playing one hour per day, I'm able to -slowly- improve my character's levels. I'm fine with this, but placing a "you have to run TFs if you want these virtual levels" restriction completely locks me out.

Of course, whenever I have something nice to say, the forums take an hour to load so as not to let me...

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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex In the meantime, one specific thing you could do that would make people like me insanely happy would be a server-wide teaming chat channel. I'm not sure if you're aware that we've all been piling onto "global channels" that only people in the know access, and which fills up eventually. The first time I unsubscribed to this game, it was because I spent 3 weeks standing on a hill in Talos Island looking for a team and being unable to find one, because I didn't know about this chat system.

I'd say the solution to that is auto-team-making of some sort, similar to what online games have had for years. WoW, for instance, lets you flag for whichever instances you want to do and keeps you flagged until enough people are flagged for that instance, then it just auto-teams them together. No need for anyone to go out and send tells, beg over global channels or anything like that. The system does all the leg work.

This is similar to the "Quick Match" option in every FPS made in the last ten years, only without the worry that you'll get stuffed in a server with ridiculously high ping. I've always felt this is a good idea, even if I'm not a fan of teaming, random teaming least of all. It's that good of an idea.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I think they'll balance it like the Invention system - the game will be scaled with non-IOs/Tier 1/2s as the default, with IOs/Tier 3/4s being a bonus.
Don't forget that positron had a big hand in designing the Invention system, and so far, the Incarnate sytem seems to be shaping up along similar lines regarding balance and requirements.
For example, people have been running the new Incarnate TF with just the Tier 1 and 2 boosts, including smashing the Apex TF in around 20 minutes - so Tier 3 and 4 clearly aren't required to take on the new Incarnate content, but getting them would make things easier - just like IOs aren't required to take on things like the STF, but getting them makes it a bit easier.

I've tried the auto teaming function in a few other games. That Fantasy Game has it, as does one of the others I've played recently. From my point of view though, it takes everything I hate about PUGs to start with (random immature and offensive idiots, largely) and mixes it with teams that either make no attempt at all to communicate, or where one or more are "professional raid guild" players who immediately set out to try to assume control and tell everyone else how they suck. In point of fact, I've actually been kicked from "dungeon finder" teams in That Fantasy Game because my level 64 character apparently didn't have a high enough gear score. I have *no* idea how they decided that - even at the time, that was still over fifteen levels from the cap, so spending money on gear at all is a complete waste. *Everyone* who doesn't have an entire raid guild bankrolling them just throws on whatever random junk the last giant spider horked up after they punched it in the face for a while.

In any case, it looks like I'm officially done with the Incarnate system. I scanned the dev posts, and it looks like rare slots and up are team only content. With a solid "we'll think about adding a solo option later, if we have time. And have nothing better to do." No thanks.

When planning for the second half of the alpha slot and beyond, please keep in mind that there are players for whom teaming is difficult due to physical limitations. I realize that these are the minority. However, hearing that they don't deserve the rewards of the end game because of their disabilities is very hurtful.

For instance, I know of a gamer who has had both arms amputated. He used a stylus held in his mouth to input commands. Solo, he could play a robust archetype and survive on his own fairly well even with the necessarily slow reaction time. He would never be able to keep up with a group.

Is this thread for reals? I am all about making people complete tf/sf's or even raids to get certain alpha components. This is an MMO, why would everything be obtainable solo?