Questions about the Roy Cooling arc (spoilers)


Adeon Hawkwood

 

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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
What sours me on the Darrin Wade arc is that after you find out what he's up to, the arc is over. Full stop. He's essentially used you to further a plan nobody in their right mind would go along with and you now can't do anything about it because he never shows up again.
Not quite true, actually.
You get to screw over the little pissant in a few tip missions Redside, which brought a smile to my face at least. That, and if he crops up in later story missions then at least I'll hopefully have the option to let Omega 1 stamp his face in.

I think we all agree though that there needs to be a marriage of good writing with decent mechanics. The old stuff can have as cool a plot behind it as it likes, but that doesn't matter if its buried behind seven year old mission design that sucks horrifically.


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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
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Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
Hoooo-boy. I just found a new low in pointless writing. The Tsoo Coup from Amanda Loomis in Independence Port.

The entire plot is "The Tsoo are going to beat up some gangs and somehow take over all of Paragon City by defeating the Family & the Warriors." I'm not sure how defeating a pretty generic bunch of mafia goons and the one villain group that's the joke of the game (haha... look at those Circle of Thorns guys beating a Warrior with a baseball bat!) is going to take over all of Paragon City but I suppose I should stop them.

To stop this brilliant scheme, I need to defeat the bosses in five locations. You wouldn't know that they're the "bosses" since no one is named and you only know you're attacking the right people when you find a group of Tsoo actively "fighting" a group of Family/Warriors. I guess defeating their rivals gangs didn't include actually defeating any of the leaders or anything, just a bunch of jamokes rumbling in various buildings. There's no clues or anything, just beat-em-up and move on to the next faceless bunch.

Despite being told that the buildings on Talos are empty, "which makes them perfect meeting places for the Warriors", the last building is actually full of civilians running about. Nice intelligence, Ms. Loomis. I guess the Warriors don't actually need an empty building though because there they are. The Tsoo have decided that their brilliant strategy of "Conquer Paragon City by defeating nameless stock bad guys" can only be improved with a dose of "Split our strength by taking hostages all over the building instead of actually fighting the Warriors." Well, maybe the hostages know something. Rescuing each one gets you an illuminating "Man, those guys are crazy!" Haha, don't I know it, Mr. Pointless Hostage!

Problem solved! I went to five locations and beat up their generic inhabitants! What now? Oh... that was it? I won? Someone named Tub Ci put out a hit on me but it's irrelevant since no one will do it? That's... good, I guess. Kind of pointless but then "pointless" pretty much described this entire arc. They didn't even try.
Admittedly, I had taken it as the Tsoo wanting to take over the Paragon underworld, but otherwise you have a lot of good points. I think it might make better for like a 30's arc with the Tsoo doing things like stealing magical artifacts from CoT and Carnies while breaking temporary alliances with other gangs to help them wipe out rivals and- goddammit, I need to go into MA now...


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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
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That level range where Tsoo and Carnies overlap doesn't leave a lot of Tsoo mobs available to spawn. After level 25ish Tsoo just spawn as Inkmen, either Red or Blue. The level 20-30 Rogue Alingment mission is pretty much all Tsoo. I think the mission is pretty cool, but once all Tsoo minions are the same mob, that mission gets pretty monotonous.


 

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Originally Posted by warden_de_dios View Post
That level range where Tsoo and Carnies overlap doesn't leave a lot of Tsoo mobs available to spawn. After level 25ish Tsoo just spawn as Inkmen, either Red or Blue. The level 20-30 Rogue Alingment mission is pretty much all Tsoo. I think the mission is pretty cool, but once all Tsoo minions are the same mob, that mission gets pretty monotonous.
You know, i've always had a problem with how some of the lower level members of mobs fall away and disappear at higher levels. I just don't get why Succubi and Frost Demons are only seen at certain level ranges and vanish when they have more attacks than some of the level 50 CoT bosses.
And I'd say the Green and Yellow Ink Men were perfectly viable up to 40, to say nothing about how Blue Ink Men are palette swapped Red Ink Men with poisoned darts. It would be really cool if instead, Red Ink Men got kind of a stalker hide, allowing them to stealth strike for a critical in their initial attacks. They'd end up not so overwhelming if you let yellow and green ink men also be seen up to the higher levels, variety would be its own mitigation against tough critters.
I'm sorry, I'm going off into a tangent... I think if I was ever given a chance to be a dev, I'd either work with instanced maps/zone maps or enemy critters.


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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

 

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What really bugs me about the Tsoo is how they have all these really cool and unique bosses (I like that part) that are level locked to 5 levels (this I don't like). Head to AE and take a look the level ranges for the Tsoo bosses. It seems like such a waste of great art assets.

Several mobs in this game have mobs that spawn as bosses in the low level, but in the 20s they spawn as LTs. Lost Aberrant Eremite as an example. Some of those Tsoo bosses for the early 20s would make good LTs in the low 30s.

Also Chimera has Ninjas as for henchmen. Those Ninjas start at 45. Can't be that hard to make a NPC powerset that spawns at 45 usable by NPCs at level 30-35.


 

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Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel View Post
Admittedly, I had taken it as the Tsoo wanting to take over the Paragon underworld, but otherwise you have a lot of good points.
Really, the arc doesn't know what it wants. In it, you're told:
"It looks like the Tsoo are planning a major hit on both the Family and the Warriors. Character, get out there and stop the Tsoo from taking over all the gangs of Paragon City!"
-and-
"I am afraid that if the Tsoo are successful, Tub Ci will be mayor of Paragon City tomorrow."
-and the souvenir text says-
"During these skirmishes, you learned that the Tsoo were planning a takeover of Paragon City"

Beyond the ridiculous premise that taking over the Family and the Warriors is akin to taking over all the gangs of Paragon City (hey, have fun now with the lvl 50 CoT, Malta, CoS, Nemesis, etc... after all, you beat up some anonymous Warriors!), I had to laugh at the "Mayor of Paragon City" bit. Tub Ci's end game is to leverage his awesome power from defeating the Warriors into an elected position as mayor? Way to dream, Big Guy. Good thing I was there to stop you.

Also amusing, Amanda warns you to bring help for the five building run. Normally this would imply that there's going to be something, anything, of note in these runs. An elite boss, heck a named regular boss, some ambushes... something. Nope. It might as well be five chained radio missions. Scratch that -- at least radio missions have named bosses.

Edit/Correction: In the very last mission, I guess the Tsoo "boss" was named Teal Death. I actually saw him and tried reading his info but it was generic and I didn't even realize he was supposed to be the boss. Checking Paragon Wiki, I guess he was a named Fire Dagger. Also according to Paragon Wiki, he was fighting Heracles, but not the same Elite Boss Heracles you fight in the Stephanie Peebles arc. If I fought him at all (which I must have to win), he must have been far less powerful and died from my AoEs because I have no recollection of seeing or fighting him. Their conversation consists of standard "We're going to beat you up" one-liners to each other. The other four buildings had no named bosses.


 

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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Not quite true, actually.
You get to screw over the little pissant in a few tip missions Redside, which brought a smile to my face at least. That, and if he crops up in later story missions then at least I'll hopefully have the option to let Omega 1 stamp his face in.
Huh, you're right. Both the villain and rogue options let you screw him over. I stand corrected.

I still want him to show up in a later story mission. Preferably at level 40+, so I can throw him in the Shadow Shard and watch him get eaten by giant eyeballs. Really, he's too stupid to be allowed to live.


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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
Huh, you're right. Both the villain and rogue options let you screw him over. I stand corrected.

I still want him to show up in a later story mission. Preferably at level 40+, so I can throw him in the Shadow Shard and watch him get eaten by giant eyeballs. Really, he's too stupid to be allowed to live.
That would be a most radically awesome and fitting end


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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
That would be a most radically awesome and fitting end
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
Huh, you're right. Both the villain and rogue options let you screw him over. I stand corrected.

I still want him to show up in a later story mission. Preferably at level 40+, so I can throw him in the Shadow Shard and watch him get eaten by giant eyeballs. Really, he's too stupid to be allowed to live.
might not actually be the best idea since we know at least one of Rularuu's unaccounted for aspects is capable of illusions and Darrin Wade's head is awfully longish, isn't it?


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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

 

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Originally Posted by samuel_tow View Post
however, knowing it's all an act doesn't make her text any less pink, any less bolded or any less annoying.
Aww, Rusty!


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Alright,

What I really want to know here is: Who designed the final boss fights?

I mean...I loved Castillo. I totally liked that he's a drama queen kind of bad guy who thinks he's all that etc.

I genuinely enjoyed his multiple fights. But then why tack on another EB?

There is no break. No opportunity to get some additional inspirations. Nothing!

What pissed me off the most was that it didn't take damage from the fire that was happily cooking my *** if I so much as stepped too much to one side.

There is a huge freaking AH-64D Apache attack chopper fueled and ready to go, but I can't at least jump in it and fire some missiles at that thing? There was nothing to use in the environment to make the fight more tolerable.

My DP/Ice blaster died about 3 or 4 times trying to take that thing down. It shot me multiple time through 4 and 5 purples. Worst is the fact that I couldn't take it down fast enough before my inspirations wore off. That part was just stupidly done.

I thought we were at a point where we would start to see some more interesting things done with the environment in special battles to allow us to approach fights in different ways. This was just plain retarded in terms of difficulty if you weren't something like an elec/elec brute.


 

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Originally Posted by Slashman View Post
There was nothing to use in the environment to make
It can get jammed if it tries to follow you off the top of the platform and down ot the lower area you entered from


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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off topic of the writing, but finally got around to playing it today, and i really wish on the fire rescue mission that, after slapping arrows on just about every boss at that point, that they had put a indicator that you could use the easy to overlook fire escape door.


 

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Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel View Post
might not actually be the best idea since we know at least one of Rularuu's unaccounted for aspects is capable of illusions and Darrin Wade's head is awfully longish, isn't it?
Yes, yes it is. In which case, we have a problem, and we really should put him back. Otherwise, all those heroes slogged through eight hours of Dr. Quaterfield for nothing.

(Of course since we're villains, we could always get the heroes to put him back...possibly by telling them that if they don't they slogged through eight hours of Dr. Quaterfield for nothing.)

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Originally Posted by Slashman View Post
There is a huge freaking AH-64D Apache attack chopper fueled and ready to go, but I can't at least jump in it and fire some missiles at that thing? There was nothing to use in the environment to make the fight more tolerable.
Considering the fight takes place on the same Sky Raider base that is covered in turrets in the Silver Mantis SF...yeah, that pretty much writes itself, doesn't it?


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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
Considering the fight takes place on the same Sky Raider base that is covered in turrets in the Silver Mantis SF...yeah, that pretty much writes itself, doesn't it?
Good point. While fighting the Titan, you should be constantly getting strafed by turrets!


 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Yes, that was my assertion, but it comes with a few problems. For one, this is never addressed or explained, and it's only a best guess we can make. For another, it relies on the idea that a device made to prevent the mediporters from being suppressed can be used to suppress them, which isn't exactly how technology works.
TP system can be redirected like in to in mission jails. So they cold be redirected into say a brick wall.


 

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Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
Good point. While fighting the Titan, you should be constantly getting strafed by turrets!
I was thinking more along the lines of being able to take control of them, and having them be on your side, but that would work too!

(I fell while fighting Castillo, and fought the Titan in the water. So I wouldn't have had to deal with a lot of turrets anyway.)


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Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

 

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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
Considering the fight takes place on the same Sky Raider base that is covered in turrets in the Silver Mantis SF...yeah, that pretty much writes itself, doesn't it?
Part of the mission objective is to disable the turrets, which I assume causes them to blow up. It's an optional objective, granted, but it's there.

Personally, far and away from using the Apache, I was hoping I could blow it up. You know, cut off the guy's escape route in case I get distracted long enough for "Peter" to hop in the pilot's seat and take off.

Personally, I feel that the Titan should trigger as soon as Castillo goes down, but rather after you speak with Peter. It's not rocket science to give the guy a couple of lines of "window dialogue" just to the effect of "You have accomplished nothing. My people will get me off the hook before we're even back at the mainland." and then trigger the Titan after that.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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I enjoyed the arc, though you have to remember to apply a good dose of comic book logic to it. Why can't you just build a new prototype MacGuffin? Because it's the prototype. In comic books, that's how it works. Nobody ever builds backups or makes copies of the schematics or anything, there's just the one-of-a-kind, irreplaceable prototype. And the bad guys reveal their hand by making a grab for it immediately, rather than just sending an agent by the MediTech offices to plant a camera in their xerox machine. What does the device do? It keeps the Praetorians from jamming mediports. How? With their mediporter jamming devices, of course. Because they broadcast mediport jamming rays.

This is totally normal for comic books. What you're asking for is a pretty typical comic book plot to be plausible in the real world. But that's no fun. I'll take fun, exciting comic book plots where I can be a super hero over "realistic" plots any day.


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So I was reading one of the other threads where someone, I think it was Sam, mentioned the Praet Penelope Yin arc. I had never played through this arc, so I went to the wiki and read through it. I believe much of the motive of the Malta can be found there. Just to be nice depending on how much you've played through *Possible Spoilers*

They have concerns that their tech isn't at the same level as the Praetorian stuff. This would mean that they would want any tech that emerges, that pulls advantage from the Praetorians, the moment they hear about it.

Additionally if they discover that the tech is ment to save the lives of metahumans in an invasion, and obvious secondary objective would be to prevent it's use by those metahumans. I believe this would be secondary because a group like Malta would look long term and see that technological superiority would be the more benificial goal in the long term, allowing them the ability to defeat more of their enemies.

And looking at the story as an outsider, I noticed something interesting. The only evidence that shows Malta was even involved, is when the Titan showed up. It means that 'Peter' could walk up, say he's from Malta, be implicated in the whole situation, and there wouldn't be a shred of physical evidence that Malta even exists. Except for the Malta tech they sent to try an salvage the situation. All there would be is a bunch of dirty cops, sky pirates, and incoherant testimony saying some group no one can prove exists is responsible for it all. That actually sounds familiar. A Malta operation that no one can prove they did, that makes the people, saying it was them, look insane.

So Malta operative that no one can prove is a Malta operative, approaches a Rogue PPD convincing him to steal the tech and the Information on the tech so it can be given to the people. He sets it up to be stolen by the Sky Raiders, and tries to make it look like the Family did it. But when he's found out, cuts his losses and simply tries to get the information on the tech for their use without worrying about preventing metahumans from using it. However his hostage was saved, his guards were beat, and he was arrested. And assuming the wreckage wasn't destroyed, the only way he could be linked to a group no one knows about is the robot they sent, when they could of just let him be arrested, and sprung or killed him later.


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Originally Posted by Doc_Reverend View Post
I enjoyed the arc, though you have to remember to apply a good dose of comic book logic to it. Why can't you just build a new prototype MacGuffin? Because it's the prototype. In comic books, that's how it works. Nobody ever builds backups or makes copies of the schematics or anything, there's just the one-of-a-kind, irreplaceable prototype. And the bad guys reveal their hand by making a grab for it immediately, rather than just sending an agent by the MediTech offices to plant a camera in their xerox machine. What does the device do? It keeps the Praetorians from jamming mediports. How? With their mediporter jamming devices, of course. Because they broadcast mediport jamming rays.

This is totally normal for comic books. What you're asking for is a pretty typical comic book plot to be plausible in the real world. But that's no fun. I'll take fun, exciting comic book plots where I can be a super hero over "realistic" plots any day.
Best post of the thread, IMO.
(And if you don't like comic books, why are you playing this game?)


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Originally Posted by Doc_Reverend View Post
This is totally normal for comic books. What you're asking for is a pretty typical comic book plot to be plausible in the real world. But that's no fun. I'll take fun, exciting comic book plots where I can be a super hero over "realistic" plots any day.
Not at all. I don't expect realism, because that would prevent me from setting people on fire and not feeling bad because they'll be ok. I expect a plot that makes sense, and is plausible within the context of the setting. "Malta wants to control the mediporter tech so they can use it to kill heroes" is plausible within the context of the setting. "Malta is hiring Sky Raiders to do their dirty work, throwing their name around, and a level 20 hero is being sent to stop them" is not, without Malta suffering some serious character derailment (which admittedly has been happening since i7) and throwing the whole idea of threat levels out the window. The mediporter part of the plot has holes big enough to drive a Kronos through, and that's also bad.

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Originally Posted by William_Valence View Post
And looking at the story as an outsider, I noticed something interesting. The only evidence that shows Malta was even involved, is when the Titan showed up. It means that 'Peter' could walk up, say he's from Malta, be implicated in the whole situation, and there wouldn't be a shred of physical evidence that Malta even exists. Except for the Malta tech they sent to try an salvage the situation. All there would be is a bunch of dirty cops, sky pirates, and incoherant testimony saying some group no one can prove exists is responsible for it all. That actually sounds familiar. A Malta operation that no one can prove they did, that makes the people, saying it was them, look insane.
Except that people like Indigo, Crimson, and your higher-level friends won't think you're insane at all. They know Malta exists. They don't tell you because you're not powerful enough to do anything about it yet. But now that you know....and apparently you are powerful enough to do something about it....what? Are they going to do what Malta should do and send a squad of Sappers and stun-grenade spammers to your house, knowing you can't fight them off? Are they going to wreck your reputation knowing you don't have enough of one yet that your past good deeds will make any such smear campaign unlikely to work? Nope, they're going to forget all about you until you hit level 40 and Indigo pretends you've never heard of them. And why? Because a mission writer was told to write an arc for the level 20-30 range and couldn't be bothered to come up with a story that actually fit that range.


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I'll take fun, exciting comic book plots where I can be a super hero over "realistic" plots any day.
The problem is you can have a fun, exciting plot where you can be a superhero without also invoking stupid cliches, Fridge Logic and Wall Bangers.

Easily.


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As opposed to a post that doesn't invoke TVTropes


 

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Inconceivable!