Questions about the Roy Cooling arc (spoilers)


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
As opposed to a post that doesn't invoke TVTropes
This is Venture's insidious plan for getting rid of everyone who disagrees with him. He directs them to TVTropes, hoping they will become inescapably trapped in a sea of links thus rendering him right through lack of dissenting opinions.

It's kind of like luring political dissidents to the gulag with promises of hot chocolate and cookies.


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Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

 

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Originally Posted by Megajoule View Post
Best post of the thread, IMO.
(And if you don't like comic books, why are you playing this game?)
Because this game has more to offer than a narrow view of what comic books can be. I admit I'm not a comic book fan, but I've still seen comic book plots that make sense and are interesting to follow. Certainly you need to apply some form of miracle excuse, and certainly you don't need to technobabble explain everything in long essays, but this doesn't mean that things shouldn't make sense within the internal ruleset of the given universe.

To my eyes, "Hey, it's comic books!" is a lazy excuse for lazy writing. Creating a comic book story is not a carte blanche for poor writing and bad sense. A comic book story is, at its heart, still a story, which needs to be good, interesting and at the very least somewhat logical, of not always rational.

Seriously, if Roy Cooling's arc were a comic book, I can easily see it featuring on Linkara's Atop the Fourth Wall.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Having just replayed Indigo's Multiple M Malta Melvin Madness arc *Couldn't resist the joke* I'd invite anyone to compare the writing with that one vs the writing in Roy Cooling.

Sure the arc is a LONG one, and after that third run to crimson bit you want to tell the kids to buy a fax machine already, but it reveals the bits and pieces about Malta in a very enjoyable manner. clue here, clue there, Crimson letting you play fill in the blanks.

Roy Cooling on the other hand is the equivalent of the filler strips in questionable content.

"HI, WE'RE MALTA!" "I'm a BAD guy!" >.> <.< "I am ETERNAL!"

And thats before you get into the technical flaws in the mission (Rogue PPD flashbangs, not highlighting the fire escapes you can use, not pointing out till the damn end you could get nance's help if you talked to him first, continued and constant abuse of the ambush mechanic praetoria style so on)

Granted I will say the arc did have two good points. The helper swat AI's actually seemed to be the most competent pets i've had in an arc. And Callisto. I Love the guy, he needs to be in more arcs outside faultline.


 

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Now that you mention it, the SWAT team were one of the few times I've had much luck keeping non-hero NPC helpers alive. Usually they run off and do something stupid.

Speaking of, right before you enter the infamous sewers of rogue PPD, you have some cop following you. Was he supposed to enter the sewers and help ('cause he doesn't). If not, why is he following me on the streets?


 

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Running Crimson's World Wide Red just now, I ran across a piece of pretty damning evidence as to how secretive the Malta group SHOULD be:

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Originally Posted by Crimson
It's unlikely he'll know much about the Malta Group per se; knowledge of its existence is rare even in the intelligence community, but he might know if any strange intelligence networks have been operating in the area.
"He" here refers to Jack Firenze, CIA head of China relations, and "top brass" according to Crimson, and yet even he's unlikely to know much about Malta. Because they're just that secretive. About the only thing he should know is that some unidentified agents have been running some unidentified operation. And yet Roy Cooling, "Agent of SAM" (whom I don't recall hiring, come to think of it), just knows everything and acts like this information is no big deal? Why ruin a good story when you don't have to?

Oh, sure, Jack Firenze, aka Director 17, knows exactly who the Malta Group are and what they're doing, on account of him leading the whole operation, but that's besides the point.

I look at Roy Cooling's arc and thinking how much better it could have been written if Roy did not, in fact, know about Malta. If he said something like "Malta? I've never heard of them. They must be some kind of domestic terrorist movement. We can't let terrorists have the mediport tech!" that would still have kept the story rolling just the same. And when you get ambushed by a Malta Titan at the end, he could just say "What was that thing? I've never seen anything like it. Perhaps this 'Malta' organisation is bigger than we thought?"

Same events, same missions, better writing that doesn't stomp all over established canon for absolutely no reason whatsoever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Well, SAM is the superhuman affairs division of intelligence no? Would make sense they'd have more info on a group that primarily involves superhumans (if in an antagonistic role) than a "regular" CIA guy.


"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."

 

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Roy Cooling is interesting that it seems to do things wrong by attempting to do everything right, plus lore hurts rather than helps.

It tries to appeal to newcomers by introducing Malta yet it takes some of the weight away from meeting them later on. Likewise, it tries to be far too upfront about Malta's involvement to appeal to the vets when the vets who actually pay attention to the storyline know that Malta is being way too visible for their usual way of doing things.

Lore oddly hurts the story since the MediPorters are supposed to be pretty safe and energy efficient which dilutes the concerns of not sharing it with citizens. Something as simple a stating it isn't or perhaps adjusting things to mention that the new upgrade will protect heroes from Cole's assault but it is far less energy efficient than the old version would clear a lot of that up.

While I do enjoy the arc, it seems to have the same problem as the Reichsman TF/SF in that someone thought of an "awesome concept" without fully checking the canon. Though I have to give Horatio credit for owning up to that fact and making a few adjustments. I'd say that a few adjustments is really all that's needed but I doubt it'll happen since they would be small adjustments.


 

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I think you would have a lot more luck nailing Cooling's arc to the wall on the weakness of it's own arc by not invoking some of the older stuff. Cooling's stuff has a lot of problems, and I really want them to be fixed because as an arc is was a lot of fun to play (and I disagree about the Malta Titan - having it spawn as an EB is a great way to show that you're taking on something that is a major threat that at higher levels spawns only as a boss - mechanics equal story progression there).

But when you look at the older stuff there are a handful of good arcs, and they mostly sit at the higher levels. When I started playing I tried reading the stories and almost quit because the mission arcs outside of the Hollows made very little sense. Don't tell me that the story holes in Cooling's arc are bad but then handwave the absolutely awful padding that you see in a lot of the older stuff as simply a mechanics problem. The padding is a major story problem - way way way too much of my time is spent in fights that ultimately serve no purpose.

Say what you will about Cooling's arc - and there are many problems with it - but ultimately it's short and the mechanics are interesting enough to keep me involved. Writing is more than just the text on the screen, it's also the delivery. And too much of the time in the older arcs were spent with a lot of really awful delivery; and worse than that, too much of the old arcs were spent with really awful delivery while ensuring that it felt like your character just wasn't doing much. Some of the gang war stuff at low levels is interesting, but ultimately dropped. The Vahz arc is interesting, but having the worst in mission debuff in the game on you while fighting Vahz is probably the worst idea ever.

Then there are the Striga contacts. I like the Striga arcs. I really do. But a lot of them seem kind of strung together in a non-intelligible way. "I heard that these guys are being a problem, you should go after them". "I lost my wedding ring, can you recover it?"

So yes, go after Ray Cooling's arc. But don't tell me that the older stuff is better. Because it's really not. A handful of them are - but even there a lot of them are really really long mission arcs with a lot of really annoying hunts. By and large, including the new 1 - 20 stuff Goldside (which, granted, have a great deal of difficulty) the newer content makes a lot more sense in a shorter amount of time than the old stuff.


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Quote:
When I started playing I tried reading the stories and almost quit because the mission arcs outside of the Hollows made very little sense.
What makes sense about the Hollows arcs? They're just a bunch of stuff that happened, bordering on Random Events Plots. The same goes for Striga. Croatoa is marginally better.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post
What makes sense about the Hollows arcs? They're just a bunch of stuff that happened, bordering on Random Events Plots. The same goes for Striga. Croatoa is marginally better.
My point was only that you (general you) shouldn't bring up the old content to say that the quality has gone down. It hasn't. The writing has been pretty consistently bad. What the new missions are better at is having interesting mission mechanics.


"Be a beacon?"

Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA