Team Dynamics


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Posted

One of my toons is about to reach that age where she gets to play with the other boys and girls and I want to make sure she does so correctly. Having played WoW for so long, I have ingrained in my brain the 5man rule: 1 tank, 1 heal, 3 dps - all have their roles and no one acts outside of them.

Something tells me this does not quite hold true for CoX.

What are the optimal team builds? Which team builds should I stay away from?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by alyssa_jones View Post
One of my toons is about to reach that age where she gets to play with the other boys and girls and I want to make sure she does so correctly. Having played WoW for so long,
Do yourself a favor and forget everything you learned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alyssa_jones View Post
Something tells me this does not quite hold true for CoX.
Listen to that something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alyssa_jones View Post
What are the optimal team builds?
Any one where you're having fun.

All defender, corruptor, mastermind, and controller (or any sort of mix) teams are insane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alyssa_jones View Post
Which team builds should I stay away from?
Any one where the leader says "We need X."


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Posted

I second what Dechs says. ANY team is fully functional and very fun. I don't really care who or what comes on to my team when I am building one because, barring some stupidity, it's all going to work out just fine.

And after you've played a bit, try to get on one of those all-X teams he mentioned. My favourite experience in the game so far has been running a Statesman Task Force with an all-Radiation team. This means it was entirely composed of Defenders and Controllers, which in WoW terms would mean we have no damage at all and would probably be impossible. We ripped through the missions and archvillians like a deer through butter.


Jazra -- Level 50 Illusion/Radiation Controller
Swayvill -- Level 50 Plant/Psi Dominator
Droshalla -- Level 50 Warshade
Latro Dectus -- Level 50 Fortunata
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Posted

But...but...there's no balance! What if I pull aggro? What if I need heals! Who is going to tell me that my damage is the sux0rz and I need to L2P n00b!?

OMG!!!!!!: eek:: eek:



But seriously...you can have an all damage team or all tank team or etc.. and still stomp your way across their faces without much of a drawback?

....

Not to be glib, but how is this possible?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by alyssa_jones View Post
B

But seriously...you can have an all damage team or all tank team or etc.. and still stomp your way across their faces without much of a drawback?

....

Not to be glib, but how is this possible?
Thus is the magic of being a team of superheroes/villains


 

Posted

Different team make-up will require employing different strategies for success. That is to to say this game is very multi dimmensional as far as methods of success. You could have a team full of DPS and just bash and smash your way to victory, you could have a team of controls/buffs/debuffs and finesse your way to victory, you could have a team of tanks and survive your way to victory, or you can mix and match and still succeed. Most AT's and powersets offer some sort of damage mitigation even for squishies. "healorz" are not necessary for victory. Everyone can survive provided they employ the right strategies.

The important part is to play with people who like to have fun and are willing to work together, which fortunately makes up about 99% of the people I have met in CoX.

Edit: Welcome to the good side of the Force, where there is no dps meter and "n00b" is a bad word.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by alyssa_jones View Post
But...but...there's no balance! What if I pull aggro? What if I need heals! Who is going to tell me that my damage is the sux0rz and I need to L2P n00b!?

OMG!!!!!!: eek:: eek:



But seriously...you can have an all damage team or all tank team or etc.. and still stomp your way across their faces without much of a drawback?

....

Not to be glib, but how is this possible?
This is the awesomeness of CoH/V/GR.

I was tanking Lady Winter on my Defender for my team. Not well, not as good as a Brute or Tank might have done, but with a good team you can do anything.

And yes, all X teams just do X^Y so well that things get ridiculous. An all Defender team never gets hurt. An all Controller team never gets attacked. An all Blaster team never gets to use their Tier Nines.

Mixing and matching is fun, but don't be afraid to try a team of a single AT.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by alyssa_jones View Post
But...but...there's no balance! What if I pull aggro? What if I need heals! Who is going to tell me that my damage is the sux0rz and I need to L2P n00b!?

OMG!!!!!!: eek:: eek:



But seriously...you can have an all damage team or all tank team or etc.. and still stomp your way across their faces without much of a drawback?

....

Not to be glib, but how is this possible?
All levity aside, it's due to the over-arching design of the game: ANY one hero/villain should be able to take 3 even con minions.

That's the basis. Add in SOs, IOs, IO Sets, Inspirations, temp powers, etc, etc, etc and you have teams of any composition that bring the beatdown.

Oh, and please tell me (in regards to your first post) that you did not wait until you were 50 before you started teaming. Leveling in a group is one of the best things about this game.

Edit: Welcome to the game and the boards, alyssa!


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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike View Post
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by alyssa_jones View Post
But seriously...you can have an all damage team or all tank team or etc.. and still stomp your way across their faces without much of a drawback?

....

Not to be glib, but how is this possible?
From what I've seen of this game, some archetypes are better at dealing damage, or buffing, or debuffing, etc, but all archetypes can do a little of everything and are able to take care of any oppenent they might have to face.

Only in some specifics situations (some AVs came to mind...) do you need a specific type of power in order to get thru a specific combat, but even that can be argued against.

All-the-same-AT teams play differently depending on the AT:

I've been on an All-Tanker team, and the tactics was rougly "they can't hurt us much, so we get in their face and hit them until they fall",

An All-Mastermind team will be more "Let's overwhelm them by sheer strength of numbers !".

An All-Defender team: "We'll debuff them so much we'll only have to hit them with a feather for them to drop".

EDIT: Too slow by 4 posts...



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by alyssa_jones View Post
But...but...there's no balance! What if I pull aggro? What if I need heals! Who is going to tell me that my damage is the sux0rz and I need to L2P n00b!?

OMG!!!!!!: eek:: eek:



But seriously...you can have an all damage team or all tank team or etc.. and still stomp your way across their faces without much of a drawback?

....

Not to be glib, but how is this possible?
Basic answers:

1) most characters can handle spawns larger than the setting for 1 player, which is usually 3 minions, or 1 lt and a minion, or 1 boss and a minion. spawns sizes are pretty linear to team size.

2) many characters are 'force multipliers': anyone who buffs players, debuffs enemies, or controls enemies, multiplicatively increases the damage output and/or survivability of the team. buffs, debuffs and controls are quite powerful, and mainly stack with each other.

1 + 2 = anyone can team with anyone and rock.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by alyssa_jones View Post
But...but...there's no balance!
If anything can work, then I'm pretty sure that means everything is in fact balanced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alyssa_jones View Post
What if I pull aggro?
Even if you're a super-squishy blaster, you have ways to deal with aggro. Knock them down, stun them, hold them, kill them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alyssa_jones View Post
What if I need heals!
You don't need heals if you don't get hit or the hits don't hurt. Buffs and debuffs in this game really are that powerful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alyssa_jones View Post
But seriously...you can have an all damage team or all tank team or etc.. and still stomp your way across their faces without much of a drawback?

....

Not to be glib, but how is this possible?
It just is. I've been on all tanker teams that just steamroll content, even difficult stuff. I've done an all kheldian ITF. I know that a Master of the Statesman TF has been completed by an all blaster team. You don't need optimal teams to accomplish stuff in this game. Maybe it's just not a difficult game, or maybe it's easy to become a superhero.

When you've got a team of nothing but buff/debuffers, you will see some incredibly awesome stuff.


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZephyrWind View Post
Oh, and please tell me (in regards to your first post) that you did not wait until you were 50 before you started teaming. Leveling in a group is one of the best things about this game.

Edit: Welcome to the game and the boards, alyssa!
Nope, my toon should be hitting 20 tonight and getting out of the Rogue starting area. I have grown kinda bored with solo quests and am really looking forward to team stuff.


Thanks everyone for your replies, I was getting kinda worried about how the mechanics worked.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by alyssa_jones View Post
Something tells me this does not quite hold true for CoX.

What are the optimal team builds? Which team builds should I stay away from?
Yep, it's completely different from WoW, or any similar game. Tankers and Brutes do BETTER at tanking, but even my brute can be a team buffer/backup healer with the right power choices.

For some TFs, there's some utility to certain power choices, like hold powers on the LGTF. But I think there's never a REQUIREMENT to have 1 X 2 Y and 5 Z.

Oh, and the optimum team build is: Fun. A team that has a decent knowledge of how to hit buttons and in what order should have no problem beating most content.


 

Posted

To be specific, certain ATs do fulfill certain roles. Tankers and some Brutes for instance, are designed to (you guessed it), tank. Blasters and Scrappers pretty much just exist to "DPS," and you have the general support toons.

Thing is, NONE of those roles are "necessary" at any given time. Sure, you can take a Tanker that's asking for a team and he will benefit the team by taking aggro and making sure the weaker chars don't get attacked. But if there isn't a Tanker around, you don't have to take one. With enough buffs or kill speed you can kill things before they become a problem. All the roles are useful, but not required.

For instance, I started a "guns only" superteam recently. This means Dual Pistols, Assault Rifle, Merceneries, and Huntsmen. All pretty much things that are considered underpowered. We had Devices, a couple Traps, and the Huntsmen bonuses, but those support powers don't come until 10-16. So up until that point we compensated with pure damage, just killing everything as fast as we could. After 16, we upped the difficulty to handle more challenging things because we could with all the buffs. And we still don't have a tank, because we don't need one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warsuit X-5 View Post
Oh, and the optimum team build is: Fun. A team that has a decent knowledge of how to hit buttons and in what order should have no problem beating most content.
Yeah. This is more important than the actual team makeup.

There are definitely some situations and enemy groups which lend themselves to being easier to complete with certain team makeups but there's other situations where the same team that breezed through one bit of content hits a wall where another team makeup would have no problems.

But there's very, very few situations (if any) in the game that are impossible to do without certain ATs or Powersets. The only thing that maybe comes close is some of the level 50 task forces and Hamidon Raiding. Things like the Lord Reclsue TF and the Statesman TF are definitely made easier by certain team makeups but you can succeed in them with practically any team setup if you're willing to think up new tactics. The Imperious Task Force might be difficult for controller/dominator heavy groups because most of the enemies in there have some kind of status resistance, but it's not insurmountable.

I usually like to do Task Forces with at least a Tank/brute to take the heavy hits from the inevitable Arch-villain(s) but even that's not required. I'll take skilled players who know how to use their characters and adapt to changing situations over a specific team makeup any day of the week.

So in conclusion: Go! Have fun! Don't worry about it!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
For instance, I started a "guns only" superteam recently. This means Dual Pistols, Assault Rifle, Merceneries, and Huntsmen. All pretty much things that are considered underpowered.

And I can do one better- I'm in a group that's running a bunch of corruptors that only took Assault Rifle as their primary; aka the "Gunbunnies". Secondaries vary all over the place. There's about a dozen players involved; most of them are currently lvl 25 to 31. Seem to pretty much blow through everything.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugOne View Post
And I can do one better- I'm in a group that's running a bunch of corruptors that only took Assault Rifle as their primary; aka the "Gunbunnies". Secondaries vary all over the place. There's about a dozen players involved; most of them are currently lvl 25 to 31. Seem to pretty much blow through everything.
My VG's all-AR/Traps corrupter team is ridiculously fun (and good).


Global name: @k26dp

 

Posted

I want to call shenanigans on all of this since it all sounds too good to be true, but it seems close to being a god-send after what I've put up with and will cherish it until sunshine blows out my bum.


 

Posted

Welcome to CoX, Alyssa!

Some of my greatest teaming memories in this game come from all one AT or theme teams.

I've played WoW, and the people in the guild over there seem shocked that there's no "Tank, Healer, DPS" rule over here.

Of course, they've never seen a teddy bear in a tweed jacket and bowler hat with a katana tank and spank an AV solo (WoW equivalent would be a raid boss) either.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by alyssa_jones View Post
I want to call shenanigans on all of this since it all sounds too good to be true,
All tanker Abandoned Sewer Trial. Everything is at +2, we were the lowest damage dealing AT, stuck as level 40 characters, and the trial is timed.

It was cake.


Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by alyssa_jones View Post
I want to call shenanigans on all of this...

Shenaniguns says, "Four out of five Blasters surveyed agree - the only requirement for an ideal team is competent players. The fifth blaster surveyed was an incompetent boob."




(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by alyssa_jones View Post
I want to call shenanigans on all of this since it all sounds too good to be true, but it seems close to being a god-send after what I've put up with and will cherish it until sunshine blows out my bum.
And now you've discovered the reason why I keep returning to this game. I tried WoW but between the gear elitism and the limited teaming options it just didn't interest me. My general policy for filling teams is to broadcast a message, take the first 7 people who turn up and hope for the best. It normally works out and I like that.


 

Posted

There are few things in the game that can't be done with any mix of members. About the only thing I can think of are very small teams going against a Giant Monster, or one of the tougher AVs. Even then it's only trouble if you don't have some kind of buff/debuff going on. A quick call out for help and you'll have help on the way.

I love playing my so called weak toons. My defender only pulls out the heals when things get a bit too wild. Most of the time people just don't need them.


�Let there be truth, happiness, and waffles�
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by alyssa_jones View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by alyssa_jones View Post
But...but...there's no balance! What if I pull aggro? What if I need heals! ...
But seriously...you can have an all damage team or all tank team or etc.. and still stomp your way across their faces without much of a drawback?
....
Not to be glib, but how is this possible?
I want to call shenanigans on all of this since it all sounds too good to be true,...
Hee hee hee
How is it possible?

Well, for one, the developers have balanced the game to be so.
For instance.... think about it in terms of how many possible power combinations there are...

For each AT, there are, what, an average of 8-10 primary choices, 7-9 secondary choices, and 9 power pools. That's for each AT. Multiply that by 9 AT's + 4 Epic ATs. It boils down to the sheer volume of choices. It's unlikely you will repeatedly run a pick up team with the same combination of powers... even for "all x AT" teams.

ETA:
If you really want to boggle your mind with how custom you can get with your toons... check out Mid's Hero Designer. Welcome to City of Alts.

.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
All tanker Abandoned Sewer Trial. Everything is at +2, we were the lowest damage dealing AT, stuck as level 40 characters, and the trial is timed.

It was cake.
Mmmm, cake.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike View Post
English does not borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, hits them over the head, and rifles through their pockets for loose grammar.