Most Overhyped Power Set Combos?
By
Aaron Islander,
Posted on: 2010-12-12 07:06 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Sonic was definitely hyped up in this thread:|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I would love to run in this quarter, if you're saying Cold Domination is popular!
 Or are you saying, in this corner you run, Sonic Renosance is really hyped up? |
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=242376
Hyped up as the least played Defender primary, but still, it was mentioned a lot.
I'm with you BrandX, and scratching my head at Sonic being considered for an "Overhyped" powerset. Stalkers too, except for PVP where they're definitely hyped.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
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From what I have seen, much of this thread is "this is what I dislike" rather than "this is overhyped."|
Originally Posted by BrandX
This sounds less like "What do I think is over hyped" and more of a "this is what I think sucks"
 Sonic Renosance just isnt an overhyped set. Cold Domination, for all the love it's given, doesn't seem popular, from what I've seen. |
Illusion is not "overhyped" . . . and this is coming from one of the main "hypers." It is very good at some things, and not so great at others. It is the best controller to solo safely against tough targets. It is the best "team spy," using invis+Deceive+PA to allow an Illusionist to stealth to targets and take them. Illusion is great as a second or third controller on any team because its powers rarely conflict with the powers of other controllers. Illusion is great at adapting to a wide range of situations.
Illusion is not ideal for mowing down large numbers of foes. Illusion is not the best at AoE control for a large team. Illusion is not the best for some specialized situations. Some people use it in those situations because it is so good most of the time, but Illusion just isn't made for those things. Illusion is not at its best when played like a Mastermind . . . yeah, it has pets, but the single target controls and damage need to be used to make Illusion most effective -- a MM can sit back, using only his secondary while the pets do all the work.
Some folks were saying that the Radiation secondary is "overhyped." Much like Illusion, Radiation is more of an all-purpose set rather than a specialized set. Other sets are stronger in certain areas, but Rad puts all of these areas together -- team buffs (that affect the player, too), debuffs and controls in a set that provides both offensive and defensive benefits. It is the only secondary that includes a Recharge and Endurance team buff together with Defense, ToHit, Damage and Resistance debuffs.
Personally, I think Empathy is the only secondary that I would consider to be "overhyped" among the players, even if it isn't overhyped here in the forums. Too many players consider Healing to be more important than it is, and the good buffs in Emp have become less important since IO set bonuses have allowed characters to gain significant buffs through slotting.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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I have no idea when you could get the idea that sonic resonance is overhyped. In my experience it is the least common buff/debuff set out there, and there's a reason for that. It does a few things pretty well, but it's got serious issues, and is in my experience not overly well regarded (though oddly enough when I do bring out my sonic/sonic def, people are quite happy to have him along because of the sets). They are really only strong in one area, resistance debuff, and bring not much else to the table compared to other sets. |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
A few of my own.
Sonic Resonance There isn't any set in the game that performs so badly, IMO, that I would never play it. But at least of the "buff/debuff" sets out there this one comes the closest for me. And while it doesn't exactly have an army of PR reps on the boards or in game trying to sell it, for some reason the set seems to get a free pass from a lot of people because it "has debuff." There also appears to be what I can only describe as a kind of cooperative mythology surrounding Sonic Resonance, as it is often said that it is "good on teams that are already soft capped." Well, ok, if you did happen to min/max your team or got lucky in that way Sonic R might add... something. That is if Thermal Radiation didn't exist. Sonic Res, for what it's worth, feels like the off-tank of buff/debuff sets. The only time it's good is when you probably didn't need it. |
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Cold Domination Actually Cold Domination is quite a nice set. What I want to address specifically is the notion that Cold Domination is a replacement for Force Field. It's not. I'm not going to say Force Field isn't a set that could use some buffs. But anytime someone says they would "always take a Cold over a Force Field" I'm left with the immediate impression they are someone who has little first hand experience with the relative strengths and weakenesses of an actual support set, and is viewing both sets only in light of what they would provide for their best characters on the toughest fights in the game. Ironically, it is this same focus that IMO tends to elevate Sonic Resonance higher than it really deserves. |
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Defender Blasts in General I'm going to catch heck for this, but I guess I'm a risk taking guy. Defender blasts are not exactly "low damage." But over and over again I see statements about "Defenders who know how to buff and also do damage." Well, truthfully, Defender damage is not that great. It is not even kind of great. Like it or not, when you play a Defender, you become a buff bot of sorts. It's not that you shouldn't blast--especially if your blasts have useful debuffs. But the notion that the average team really cares whether their Empathy or Force Field Defender is constantly blasting is at least partially unfounded. At the least, you could probably get away with having ~2 good single target attacks and an AoE or 2, and the only people who would really care are the ones who troll power selections in order to bait you with insults. Anything you add above that should be viewed as more less what they are, tools for soloing. |
Do you know of a single blaster out there that wouldn't kill for a 40% damage increase? Yes, the defender won't be putting up the real big numbers, but the damage still counts, and it counts just as much as if it were just a boost to the damage dealers.
Too many alts to list.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
I would love to run in this quarter, if you're saying Cold Domination is popular!
Or are you saying, in this corner you run, Sonic Renosance is really hyped up? |
To me there is a difference between popularity and hype. Maybe some folks on this thread missed it, but the recent "best Controller" discussions about Ill/Rad vs Ill/Cold are part of what was on my mind when I started this thread. Also, the Cold vs Force Field holy war that erupted a few months back that I'm sure will be featured on an A&E documentary in a few years (I dare not provide a link lest battle lines be redrawn). And there are the various "what is the best Scrapper/Tanker/Controller?" threads that spring up continually. Of course it could also just be I'm fried by the number of times we've been asked to "Rate my Fire/Kin" on the Controller boards, which people no doubt rolled after hearing it was the "best" Controller. As sometimes the poster admits him or herself.
As for, Sonic Resonance, I'd call what it has "sleeper hype." It's the kind of set where a subset of people will go "Even though you don't see many of them, Sonic Resonance is actually really powerful if you learn to play it right." Essentially the Appeal to Infinite Skill if I were to make up a name for this phenomena; most of us should be familiar with it from discussions about knockback. I rolled two characters on that type of advice. My experience with it was that it was oversold, even if not by a very large number of people (as I said in my original post on the subject).
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This is the first time I'm hearing FF being compared to Cold Domination. People actually do that?!
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Cold Domination
Actually Cold Domination is quite a nice set. What I want to address specifically is the notion that Cold Domination is a replacement for Force Field. It's not. I'm not going to say Force Field isn't a set that could use some buffs. But anytime someone says they would "always take a Cold over a Force Field" I'm left with the immediate impression they are someone who has little first hand experience with the relative strengths and weakenesses of an actual support set, and is viewing both sets only in light of what they would provide for their best characters on the toughest fights in the game. Ironically, it is this same focus that IMO tends to elevate Sonic Resonance higher than it really deserves.
My Fire/Cold Corruptor would heavily disagree. Since I'm a damage person, I deliberately skipped all the teammate shields on this character. I didn't want to spend time shielding people. And believe it or not, she's more than effective as a reliable teammate. A perma Rain of Fire and Sleet and the occasional Heat Loss are all a team needs to just crush its way through any spawn. Enemies don't even last long enough to be of any threat thanks to all that -RES and all that fire raining onto them and the fireballs exploding in their faces! She's what I call a "Blasterruptor". So far I've been kicked out on sight from 2 or 3 teams. On others, I go in, the leader and everyone starts going "lol u have no shields", and then they realize that they really don't need shields and we all become BFFs.
Let's see FF do that!
Granted, FF has its own strengths. They're just different sets.
After this thread, I'm starting to think FF is overhyped. Sure, it can soft-cap a team, but it's a one trick pony, and my favourite set (and thus one many of my characters have) is Traps, so I'm already touting along a 20-25% defence bonus with FFG and Manoeuvres, so why do I need FF when someone else (another Traps or a Cold, or a couple VEATs) will do just fine?
FF's big problem is that there are so many other sources of defence out there that FF is just a waste.
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Pretty much. If you're only going to have one buff/debuff set on your team, FF is one of your very best choices. ... and if you're going to have two or more, it's likely one of your worst.
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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
FF's big problem is that there are so many other sources of defence out there that FF is just a waste.
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Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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All of this is 100% truth and well said.
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
From what I have seen, much of this thread is "this is what I dislike" rather than "this is overhyped."
Illusion is great as a second or third controller on any team because its powers rarely conflict with the powers of other controllers. Illusion is great at adapting to a wide range of situations. Some folks were saying that the Radiation secondary is "overhyped." Much like Illusion, Radiation is more of an all-purpose set rather than a specialized set. Other sets are stronger in certain areas, but Rad puts all of these areas together -- team buffs (that affect the player, too), debuffs and controls in a set that provides both offensive and defensive benefits. It is the only secondary that includes a Recharge and Endurance team buff together with Defense, ToHit, Damage and Resistance debuffs. |
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Speed Boost. Seriously, I can't think of a more overhyped power. How many other single powers can reliably get a player kicked for NOT having it on their character? The only other competitor would probably be Mind Link for Widows.
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Originally Posted by ShadowsBetween
Speed Boost. Seriously, I can't think of a more overhyped power. How many other single powers can reliably get a player kicked for NOT having it on their character? The only other competitor would probably be Mind Link for Widows.
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SB plz!
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Speed boost is a very good power. People kicking people for not having it IMO are just silly.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Fire/Cold Corrs.
Nah....who am I kidding, really?
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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Right you are. My fault.
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Originally Posted by Arbegla
Only 1 correction:
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Health_Regeneration AVs do indeed regenerate 5% every 15 seconds, which is their 100% regeneration value. Its a little different then players. |
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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The thread title should be changed to...
"Powersets I really dont care for"
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
I don't really care for that last comment
This thread is overhyped.
And fire/dark Corrs will >Fearsome Stare >Tar pit >Rain of Fire >Fire ball--the word Overhyped.
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And at most its a 91HP/sec loss. Not a big virtual DPS boost, and weak compared to - resist on any team wortt being on. Regen debuffs are strongly overhyped, and people are WAY too scared to do a TF without it.
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Originally Posted by Silverado
As Arbegla said before me, a typical -regen debuff does -500% regen to the target, which with a single application is almost enough to zero their regeneration. Say you have a Cold and a Therm in your team? yeah, they're enough to completely shut down an AV's regeneration even through their 85% debuff resistance. A Dominator's Drain Psyche or a Trapper's Poison Bubble is enough to halt an AV/GM's regeneration by itself, the latter being autohit and easy to perma.
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Don't forget resistance buff, HP buff, slow debuff resistance, - damage, and -special. IMO, cold almost isn't hyped enough.
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Originally Posted by docbuzzard
I would easily take a cold over a FF any day and twice on Sundays. They are not even comparable sets. FF is a pretty much few trick pony. You, you can buff defense really well, give status protection to those around you and do some tossing around of enemies. I'll take the combination of defense buff, resistance debuff, regen debuff, slows, and endurance buff over that any day. |
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Cold is fantastic. All the right buffs and debuffs in one great package.
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Originally Posted by MindmasterZero
Don't forget resistance buff, HP buff, slow debuff resistance, - damage, and -special. IMO, cold almost isn't hyped enough.
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@Demobot
Also on Steam
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Now Test_Rat they said Power sets that actually are a part of the game not some one misguided dilllusion that all Defenders are H3@L0r$. LOL |
Originally Posted by Test_Rat
Healers.
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In response to other comments .. /e sniffs and holds back the tears.. BILL! I have always been on your side here on the forums how can you defile the Illusion set? Its what my first 50 level is! LOL Okay so its not nearly as good on a team as many of the others but solo I always got a kick out of being able to sneak in, confuse everything in sight, sic my Phantom Army on them and sit back and watch the mayhem.
I tend to agree with Fire/Kin as being vastly overhyped. Don't get me wrong in the right hands it can be an awesome set but I have seen a LOT of Fire/Kins that really had no business playing anything but Scrappers, Tanks or Blasters (in other words I DON ned 2 thunk.. I jus hits stuf).
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
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I think what's hyped in general is performance versus AVs and on farms. Almost as if the rise from lvls 1-50 isn't a significant part of the game. Or THE game, until very recently.
[EDIT: Removed accidental quote]
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Taunt, Footstomp, and Knockout Blow will still keep you useful during the crash |
Originally Posted by Securitron XI
DISCLAIMER: Personal Opinion
Super Strength (rage crash is annoying) |
There is no such thing as an "innocent bystander"
Fire/kin controllers are very, very good at knocking down tuned groups of a specific type without interference and provided nothing odd gets thrown at them.
They do not bring anything to a variable situation that other control/support combos don't seem to bring as well, if not better. Great farmers, but if you're rolling one for non-farm purposes, the combo is quite ho-hum.
SS/WP Brutes are toasters. They have a narrow band of performance, with the high end representing the kind of investment that would make anyone great, and the low end representing good personal survivability and anemic team contribution. Good players can make it work, but mediocre players who play SS/WP are not encouraged by the set itself to become good players.
Scrapperes, in general, are not the top-end bleeding-edge scrapper builds you see on those boards, and I have almost no tolerance whatsoever for people who talk about how great they will be, at 50, with a build they can't yet afford, face-down in a mission.
Umm, 'overhyped' means well regarded beyond their capabilities. Stalkers are easily the least well regarded AT in the game to the extent that they are almost never asked for when assembling a team (though of course, this isn't to say people will not take them on teams). As you yourself say, a scrapper can pretty much clearly out do them (as can a brute). They have no reputation to be regarded as 'overhyped'.
Personally I like playing stalkers, but I am under no illusion that they are an uber AT.
Too many alts to list.