Issue 19 - Patch Notes for build 1900.201011102104.23
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2010-12-10 16:18 in The Global Training Room Test Server
Am I the only one who looks at the bit about pulling in regards to Trapdoor and thinks 'Devices and Traps aren't going to be useful yet again'.
Yes, I know it's theoretically possible to set them up in the room with trapdoor if you stealth in, but really, you shouldn't have to Stealth anything for a Primary or Secodary to be useful. And unfortunately both Devices and Traps are 'Set up and Pull' sets rather than 'Rush in and unload with everything you have' sets.
It's almost like the Devs don't want these sets to be useful against Trapdoor, let alone against certain other EBs/AVs anymore (or at least that's how it comes off to me).
-Aoide Muse
@Aoide Muse
Arc IDs: #3571 Digital Love, #182068 The Rikti Roll, #334016 The Null Earth Saga: A Reflected Web
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IMO Devices stealthing in to lay traps is part of the set's concept, seeing as it has stealth as one of its powers.|
Originally Posted by Aoide Muse
Am I the only one who looks at the bit about pulling in regards to Trapdoor and thinks 'Devices and Traps aren't going to be useful yet again'.
Yes, I know it's theoretically possible to set them up in the room with trapdoor if you stealth in, but really, you shouldn't have to Stealth anything for a Primary or Secodary to be useful. And unfortunately both Devices and Traps are 'Set up and Pull' sets rather than 'Rush in and unload with everything you have' sets. It's almost like the Devs don't want these sets to be useful against Trapdoor, let alone against certain other EBs/AVs anymore (or at least that's how it comes off to me). -Aoide Muse |
Traps is a little different, but it's got other powers to help work that guy down.
@Mojo-
Proud Member of Fusion Force.
This too me just reeks of...
People are beating him in a way we didnt design or want him to be beaten. Beat him the way WE want him to be beaten.
Ill be honest all i have been doing the last few days is getting the Alpha arcs done so i'll probably be finished with this in a day or two after haveing done it over 30 times already.
Thats ONE thing I think the devs are missing. Many of us have do do this OVER AND OVER AND OVER AN OVER again...
Tedious and boring.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
I'm still not sure what issues people are having with Trapdoor. If you just kill his clones (which is easy enough to do considering they're minions) he regens like a normal EB. I've soloed him with everything as far down as Corruptor damage. The only things lower than that in damage are Controller, Defender, and petless MM. And I'm pretty sure those have the tools to handle him as well.
Kill his clones and use inspirations. If you still can't handle it, take a friend.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I've done it on 8 different toons, and only in 1 case I had to kill his clones first (ironically it was on fire/kin, I just couldn't get through his regen even with all siphon power and FS flying around). |
Originally Posted by Dispari
I'm still not sure what issues people are having with Trapdoor. If you just kill his clones (which is easy enough to do considering they're minions) he regens like a normal EB. I've soloed him with everything as far down as Corruptor damage. The only things lower than that in damage are Controller, Defender, and petless MM. And I'm pretty sure those have the tools to handle him as well.
Kill his clones and use inspirations. If you still can't handle it, take a friend. |
In all other instances it was one of the following things:
- brute force (ill/rad, widow),
- lava (bane, AR/NRG blaster)
- confuse: he will spawn clone and immediately kill it (mind/rad, mind/fire, fort)
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wonder how long before they make confuse not work?
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Originally Posted by NordBlast
I've done it on 8 different toons, and only in 1 case I had to kill his clones first (ironically it was on fire/kin, I just couldn't get through his regen even with all siphon power and FS flying around).
In all other instances it was one of the following things: - brute force (ill/rad, widow), - lava (bane, AR/NRG blaster) - confuse: he will spawn clone and immediately kill it (mind/rad, mind/fire, fort) |
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I've done it on a couple controllers and it was incredibly simple. Just held him (didn't see any purple triangles, though it's possible I got lucky with timing) and he stopped spawning clones. I ignored the one clone he did spawn and had no problem doing enough damage, just alternating my hold and APP single target blast to beat him. I didn't even realize until later that the clones increased his regen -- I was wondering why it wasn't really attacking me.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
The only things lower than that in damage are Controller, Defender, and petless MM. And I'm pretty sure those have the tools to handle him as well.
Kill his clones and use inspirations. If you still can't handle it, take a friend. |
I haven't tried a defender yet, but with the debuffing potential of most of the sets I think all but the most pathological builds should be able to do it, maybe with some inspirations.
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Trapdoor doesn't seem to be too difficult to hold for an EB. He was a cake walk with my Dominator.
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Originally Posted by MTS
I've done it on a couple controllers and it was incredibly simple. Just held him (didn't see any purple triangles, though it's possible I got lucky with timing) and he stopped spawning clones. I ignored the one clone he did spawn and had no problem doing enough damage, just alternating my hold and APP single target blast to beat him. I didn't even realize until later that the clones increased his regen -- I was wondering why it wasn't really attacking me.
I haven't tried a defender yet, but with the debuffing potential of most of the sets I think all but the most pathological builds should be able to do it, maybe with some inspirations. |
I was hoping this patch would have gone live today, so guessing thursday ?
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We burn more Influence before 8am than you make all day.
expected for next patch: the voltron maneuver.
a team of 5 or more will join together into slightly larger hero that combines all the attributes of the team into it.
the caveat: control is given to a single teamate in random 30 sec increments.
teams with even numbers may have a slightly deformed hero, with a longer arm or leg on one side.
the patch is intended to address the suggestion that super heroes seem to be shrinking into semi heroes.
/ymmv 
Kittens give Morbo gas.
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Well, EB resistances aren't that high - and isn't /just/ and EB>? Not an AV downgrade?
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Originally Posted by Inazuma
Trapdoor doesn't seem to be too difficult to hold for an EB. He was a cake walk with my Dominator.
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Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
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Re: Ramiels Arc
It got old first time i did it. Theres no replayability in that arc and now its just a hurdle to get the alpha slot unlocked.
Didnt have to many issues with trapdoor though i did pull him out for speed on toons that couldnt brute force him. same way i autocomplete the third if i can. Its just dull bags of hp.
Re: PvP drops, thanks. Was worried it would take an issue.
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There are several problems with this. He doesn't stop spawning clones, and each new clone means that you have to stop attacking him and attack the clone. In doing this, he's back to full health or very close. |
Originally Posted by Dispari
I'm still not sure what issues people are having with Trapdoor. If you just kill his clones (which is easy enough to do considering they're minions) he regens like a normal EB.
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Also, inspirations are not in infinite supply, but the clones apparently are. Even if you dump your tray and fill it full of purples --- Trapdoor is quite capable of 2-shotting many characters --- you will eventually run out, leaving you dead and forced to start over again if you have to fight an infinite number of clones. Obviously, if you have to leave the mission to begin again, he will once more be at full health.
If they're going to do this they need to impose some kind of limit on the number of clone respawns, so that it doesn't take forever. Three seems reasonable.
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Still, though. I've soloed him with 6 characters ranging from Corr to MM (necro, low damage output) to Brute to Blaster to Dom to Widow, who have everything from a complete IOed out build to a regular SO build. I popped a few inspirations and had no issues taking him down.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
There are several problems with this. He doesn't stop spawning clones, and each new clone means that you have to stop attacking him and attack the clone. In doing this, he's back to full health or very close.
Also, inspirations are not in infinite supply, but the clones apparently are. Even if you dump your tray and fill it full of purples --- Trapdoor is quite capable of 2-shotting many characters --- you will eventually run out, leaving you dead and forced to start over again if you have to fight an infinite number of clones. Obviously, if you have to leave the mission to begin again, he will once more be at full health. If they're going to do this they need to impose some kind of limit on the number of clone respawns, so that it doesn't take forever. Three seems reasonable. |
I even ran the entire arc, including the captain and Honoree, with an Elec/Nothing Blaster. I rolled up an auto-50 Blaster and gave her nothing but accuracy and damage SOs, and didn't even slot a secondary or pool powers. I defeated all of them using just 4 stock attacks and inspirations.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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But have you done it after the change? Because as it stands now if this mission isnt droppable I wont be getting alot of incarnates. I dont think this one mob needed to be changed in the first place the arc is hard enough as it is with the 2 mobs in the other mission. I know everyone keeps saying just invite people for help, well if we have to do this then why not make it a tf then because that is what I consider group content.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Still, though. I've soloed him with 6 characters ranging from Corr to MM (necro, low damage output) to Brute to Blaster to Dom to Widow, who have everything from a complete IOed out build to a regular SO build. I popped a few inspirations and had no issues taking him down.
I even ran the entire arc, including the captain and Honoree, with an Elec/Nothing Blaster. I rolled up an auto-50 Blaster and gave her nothing but accuracy and damage SOs, and didn't even slot a secondary or pool powers. I defeated all of them using just 4 stock attacks and inspirations. |
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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What changes? You can't pull him out of the room now? I never did that in the first place. I always killed his clones.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
But have you done it after the change? Because as it stands now if this mission isnt droppable I wont be getting alot of incarnates. I dont think this one mob needed to be changed in the first place the arc is hard enough as it is with the 2 mobs in the other mission. I know everyone keeps saying just invite people for help, well if we have to do this then why not make it a tf then because that is what I consider group content.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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He doesn't stop spawning clones on top of not being pulled out of the room. |
Originally Posted by Dispari
What changes? You can't pull him out of the room now? I never did that in the first place. I always killed his clones.
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I actually had problems killing him on a db/elec SO'ed brute after this change. I'd get him down to about 50% health and he'd get 2 clones out and then I couldn't bypass his regen. I'd go and kill the 2 clones, then the third he'd pooped out while I was killing the first 2 and of course he was back at full health. Then I'd run off to kill any clone he'd make and by the time I'd get to the clone, get back to him he'd have pooped out yet another clone that I'd have to go kill and be back at full health. It was so damn annoying. I ended up pulling him into the lava to counter 2 clones worth of regen while I'd go kill any clone(s) then finished him off that way.
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I'm also one that didn't really have any problem with Trapdoor - my melee toons just walked up an walloped him (WP/DM tanker and DM/WP scrapper), while my squishies (Psi/MM blaster, FF/Nrg defender, Earth/Rad controller, Kin/sonic defender) pulled him out.
I'll give not pulling a try, to see what I have to do to win those fights. I did get all these toons through the 2 EB mission, although on most of 'em I was under the effects of 4 lucks + a Break Free the entire fight.
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Simple you dodge the mines. They have a lag before detonating. Or you can cheat and use hover.
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Originally Posted by Equation
When can we expect some changes to Director 11 that will help us understand how to get the midnight dodger badge in any way shape or form.
I feel the only thing he is missing now is the hockey mask, and our team are running around like teenage coeds... sorry to be a debbie downer. |
Multiple Man had an upper limit to his clones AFAIK. Even as a "half incarnate" he MUST have a limit...
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You wish lol. What spawned this idea? I don't think a combining giant robot wold work that way. At best it'd be a new power set or AT that spawns pilot pets and you all get into your seprate robots as one power and merge the robots as another power.|
Originally Posted by spice_weasel
expected for next patch: the voltron maneuver.
a team of 5 or more will join together into slightly larger hero that combines all the attributes of the team into it. the caveat: control is given to a single teamate in random 30 sec increments. teams with even numbers may have a slightly deformed hero, with a longer arm or leg on one side. the patch is intended to address the suggestion that super heroes seem to be shrinking into semi heroes. /ymmv |
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Originally Posted by Miuramir
previously, that was enough for him to pop out about a dozen bifurcations, but he seemed to have an upper limit and would stop. Without a limit, there's nothing stopping him from Agent Smith-ing into enough clones to crash people's clients, well beyond any winnable state.
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I tend to agree with you, but it seems that the trend is to dummy the game down to sheer brute force, and the use of guile is considered a cheat or exploit by those with out imagination. The game seems to be evolving to be very melee centric, if you don't go pound them, you are doing it wrong. A sign should be posted prior to enter a mission: "Leave brains here"|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
[/LIST][/LIST]Which Dev is getting all bothered and upset that players find an alternative way to solve a problem?
You know, in the comics, separating a foe from their power source is usually a winning tactic as much as destroying their power source. There's a pattern here. A bad one. Where other MMOs get applauded that encounters are not rigidly designed to be completed in only one way, CoH, which *used to* be like that is heading down the road of the egotistical Dungeon Master who forces players to find the *right way* or die. Rather than applauding player ingenuity in finding non-exploitive alternate solutions, they get punished. I find that reprehensible. For shame. |
Stormy
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Melee centric? Have you played Apex TF or Tin Mage? Man they nerf melee hard in those.
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Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
I tend to agree with you, but it seems that the trend is to dummy the game down to sheer brute force, and the use of guile is considered a cheat or exploit by those with out imagination. The game seems to be evolving to be very melee centric, if you don't go pound them, you are doing it wrong. A sign should be posted prior to enter a mission: "Leave brains here"
Stormy |
And that's what the "outside the box" thinking is here -- typical MMO fiddling with map locations and aggro ranges to thwart a game mechanic in some way. To me, it feels more like taking advantage of the limits of computing than being a clever superhero.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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