Endurance.
But for the cost of one set, *300* merits, you could have gotten 15 gold reward rolls and had made tens of millions with even mediocre luck.
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My mind, it boggles.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
level 50 Acc/Dam 6k
level 50 acc/dam/end 100k level 50 acc/dam/rech 100k level 50 dam/end 100k level 50 dam/end/rech 250k (with one 10k sale in the mix) level 50 dam/rech 250k as of 8pm PST Saturday night. if I were a bargain hunter I could go level fishing between 45-50 and get them cheaper. |
Ultimo, you do need to have some patience though - even on a normal market you are not going to get everything you want at the drop of a hat. Since right now is not a buyers market (in the mid levels at least) its time to sell and raise cash. Run tip missions for hero merits, use them to buy LoTG +recharges, craft them and sell them. When I was looking earlier this week the L25 recieps alone where going for 200 million inf - that may have changed, but I usually got 140-150 million for crafted L25 in the past.
Also, if you have a store of reward merits and you don't like doing random rolls and hoping you will get lucky (which is what most folks suggest) you can still make a fairly easy and simple profit on them, provided you have some starting cash (about 45 million or so). Just convert them into hero merits: 100 reward merits and 40 million inf will get you 2 hero merits, convert that to an LoTG +recharge, craft it, sell it, net profit around 100 million. Not as good an overall return as you might get it you do random rolls and are careful about selling them on the market - but a lot less trouble and it doesn't rely on the RNG, which I hate with a passion.
So, use the next week or two to build up cash and put out reasonable bids on the IO's you want and let them sit. They WILL fill eventually.
EDIT: Also, if you are picking up hero merits on a regular basis the same 2 merits that bought you an LoTG +recharge can buy you a numina's or miracle unique. Now that everyone has fitness you can slot one of these with no cost to you in term of build since you have that nice free slot in health. The miracle would probably cover a large portion of your toggle costs, if not all of it and if you want a nice regen boost to go with the recovery boost, slot a numina's instead.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
There's been a lot of constructive posts here. Try to remain constructive, I'm not going to respond to baiting posts like these last two.
I went and got the Thunderstrike set from the Merit Vendor in the Atlas Wentworth's, but don't have enough merits to get two sets, let alone three. I had most of the necessary salvage already, and the stuff I needed to buy wasn't terribly expensive. Crafting them myself thus cost a total of about 6 million for the entire set. That stings, but I noticed a difference, even with only one set of them. I can imagine three sets will be very nice indeed. Just a little update. |
You spent probably around 200 merits for something that you could have acquired for less than 5 million for the whole set.
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Since Ultimo mentioned the character in question was L41 he was probably shopping for recipes in the 30-40 range and right now those are a little scarce, since everyone and their mother is running 50's for incarnate drops so very few mid level recipes are being generated.
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I would still bet a pile that I could kit out for much less than a million per recipe by looking at off levels and exhibiting a soupçon of patience.
blowing a lot of merits on a recipe that's one step above a junk drop is just nuts.
even if they WERE all five million, that's chump change when you consider what you CAN get with that many merits.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
I facepalmed at the bolded part. Buying Thunderstrikes with Merits is a HUGE waste of merits. You can seriously get them for under 500k per recipe.
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You could easily make all the inf you need with just one high cost recipe like LotG +rech.
But I'll reiterate, I think the better path is to do AE. If the market is scarce of IOs in your level range, rolling for them yourself is a good plan. Bronze roll for 70 tickets each is a shot at any of the 6 and if they are going for 5 mil, just sell any repeats you get...
But I'll reiterate, I think the better path is to do AE. If the market is scarce of IOs in your level range, rolling for them yourself is a good plan. Bronze roll for 70 tickets each is a shot at any of the 6 and if they are going for 5 mil, just sell any repeats you get...
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I'd roll all bronzes 35-39, delete the obvious crap and craft the good stuff for sale.
Over the course of a couple weeks I nearly filled up one of my SG storage bins with Thunderstrikes of various flavors- I needed a couple of sets, so I just stored whichever ones I happened to get. And besides all those Thunderstrikes he made enough inf to buy everything necessary for his 'uber build' while still hovering around the inf cap.
Which is a long-winded way of saying yes, tickets are a viable way to get thunderstrikes (and make a truckload of inf besides). =P
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Not quite. I'm not concerned with taking a long time to defeat a foe so much as not having the endurance to do it. I've tried slotting like most of my characters (one EndRedx, one Accuracy, three Damage), and I've tried slotting two EndRedx and two Damage, but nothing I do seems to make any difference.
Keep in mind, this was an experiment of sorts. With maximal endurance reduction, I was still running out of endurance in seconds. |
You may want to try fewer toggles too. For instance, you don't need Maneuvers or Hover against a single enemy... just zap him with a Force Bolt every time he gets back up and he'll be stuck on his backside most of the time. All you really need is Dispersion Bubble to protect against the occasional mez he does get off and Assault to speed up the fight if you can spare the endurance. Tough is a complete waste in this case too since he should never get in melee with you and his ranged attacks have no smashing or lethal damage. If you aren't using IOs toggle management is very important... run only those you really need for the given fight.
And of course you can also just use some cheap set IOs. For instance, just replacing IOs and not moving any slots gives me this:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.90
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Technaught: Level 50 Technology Defender
Primary Power Set: Force Field
Secondary Power Set: Energy Blast
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Legacy Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Personal Force Field
- (A) Defense Buff IO
- (A) Maelstrom's Fury - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (3) Maelstrom's Fury - Accuracy/Damage
- (3) Volley Fire - Accuracy/Damage
- (5) Volley Fire - Damage/Endurance
- (5) Maelstrom's Fury - Damage/Endurance
- (A) Accuracy IO
- (7) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Air Burst - Accuracy/Damage
- (7) Air Burst - Damage/Endurance
- (9) Detonation - Accuracy/Damage
- (9) Detonation - Damage/Endurance
- (11) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Bruising Blow - Accuracy/Damage
- (11) Smashing Haymaker - Accuracy/Damage
- (13) Bruising Blow - Damage/Endurance
- (13) Smashing Haymaker - Damage/Endurance
- (15) Smashing Haymaker - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Flight Speed IO
- (15) Flight Speed IO
- (17) Flight Speed IO
- (23) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Maelstrom's Fury - Accuracy/Damage
- (17) Maelstrom's Fury - Damage/Endurance
- (19) Maelstrom's Fury - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (19) Volley Fire - Accuracy/Damage
- (21) Volley Fire - Damage/Recharge
- (A) Flight Speed IO
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (21) Flight Speed IO
- (A) Bruising Blow - Accuracy/Damage
- (23) Bruising Blow - Damage/Endurance
- (25) Smashing Haymaker - Accuracy/Damage
- (25) Smashing Haymaker - Damage/Endurance
- (27) Bonesnap - Accuracy/Damage
- (A) Healing IO
- (27) Healing IO
- (29) Healing IO
- (A) Endurance Modification IO
- (29) Endurance Modification IO
- (31) Endurance Modification IO
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (31) Endurance Reduction IO
- (31) Defense Buff IO
- (33) Defense Buff IO
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (33) Endurance Reduction IO
- (33) Resist Damage IO
- (34) Resist Damage IO
- (A) Air Burst - Accuracy/Damage
- (34) Air Burst - Damage/Endurance
- (34) Air Burst - Damage/Recharge
- (36) Detonation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (36) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (36) Endurance Reduction IO
- (37) Defense Buff IO
- (37) Defense Buff IO
- (A) Volley Fire - Accuracy/Damage
- (37) Volley Fire - Damage/Endurance
- (39) Maelstrom's Fury - Accuracy/Damage
- (39) Maelstrom's Fury - Damage/Recharge
- (39) Maelstrom's Fury - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (40) Endurance Reduction IO
- (40) Defense Buff IO
- (40) Defense Buff IO
- (A) Air Burst - Accuracy/Damage
- (42) Air Burst - Damage/Endurance
- (42) Air Burst - Damage/Recharge
- (42) Detonation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (43) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Calibrated Accuracy - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (43) Calibrated Accuracy - Accuracy/Damage
- (43) Calibrated Accuracy - Accuracy/Endurance
- (45) Calibrated Accuracy - Accuracy/Interrupt
- (45) Calibrated Accuracy - Accuracy/Range
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (45) Recharge Reduction IO
- (46) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (46) Endurance Reduction IO
- (46) Resist Damage IO
- (48) Resist Damage IO
- (A) Smashing Haymaker - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (48) Focused Smite - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (48) Focused Smite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (50) Smashing Haymaker - Accuracy/Damage
- (50) Damage Increase IO
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (50) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 12: LEGACY BUILD
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1550;700;1400;HEX;| |78DAA5945B6F124114C767814AB915E895DE2894B6F6BA85A889978726B52569529| |4348DD1442548A7B0862C0DD0286F467D51FB057CF0036863135FD46AAAC617A35F| |0ACF99FF401B797413FEBF9D73CEFEE7CCCE2C99C76B7E219EAC08A3E77A395FABE| |5D6E4AEB47764D5BB2D0B25BB52AE141BB8CDEF174B75B71062B855925BDDDFDD35| |D3956A41E6D2962CEF8CB5335B79BB2877CC755B568B8DDC2A39D7C31B764956A55| |D375B37BE6CA55236D3658B8CFDB8B7EAB6ACD5027A4071CB2E06D56853E6C9B856| |B2F67AD7F7AC8299AD3CA27932642CAB8D08B575897ED221F4D514224A98141F4F4| |32E71A0428E17C053C2B8703D035EAA6091CA0D941BC6880A9D8B2B7CA68C531B39| |DF22F34EA1FB3D70A4E05D00E85575E9F2AE753585775365FC6935F267D4A8E7A68| |287CADD6AE2A6D39D4006080183E8E21375E1D1B61EAC2384CE7BB1B85EACAAFFB9| |4217D9FA602B7C30F25128A0571880693F32066582DA3B889607D16B049D47D0F2C| |80A2122DC541E86B7233C850C30067453419F2EE88B2103448187B49801BDE801B4| |12D5C0E6C50027190DE9BA2114C4341615E24099FC86F50286B145716C51FC50AD2| |3F1418D12D82217D98E6ADB51F82580A9E8591C3BF859D88EE3F54EE1D0CC600766| |5E01D88130D94E68DB09F89DD7889EC5898315B693E8760EDDCE1D02E8761EDD7EA| |1F2695D3EFD139913E09BC2E277E087C22F3AABB32877CCC2611158027E53C1826E| |7301FD2D69E06D2E037FA8CED4F39A38ACCB7780DB0A291C8ED4B8C2119DADA43E5| |E49CC9402C65C673ECE265D62B3239275B53F3F61A8C80DAE419BFF751DFB5B7379| |B6BCA4DB2C59965B2C7759EEB1DC67C9B33C6029B034BFB69F0E5EE686AEB05C65B| |9C632102239E04AB78FC4C7E26709B0F4B00459422C7D2C232C6F589A9E50FB8F05| |D7EB3059887F979CEC7859F31D915447E46247E44247E4748EBF9A652D6D| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Every IO in this build should be available for a few thousand inf or so... these recipes are dirt cheap and there are usually a few on the market in any level range. If some are out of stock or too expensive you can substitute others, just pick any yellow (uncommon) set that doesn't have high demand set bonuses and you'll usually be able to grab the recipe for around the cost of a DO and craft it cheap. You can also run Hero or Villain tip missions for four days and get two hero or villain merits, then use those to buy a Numina or Miracle unique for Health that boosts your recovery. Eight days will give you both, with no cost other than crafting them, and that will improve your recovery to the point you can run more toggles full time.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
Mathematically, when you say you are primarily concerned with having the endurance to defeat something without regard to time*, what you want to optimize is damage per endurance, often referred to as DPE. The problem with your original build is that you slotted heavily for endurance but neglected damage. This is a mistake, because you're missing out on doubling up the benefits of both. You can only benefit effectively from 3 damage or 3 endurance SOs, but you can have the DPE benefit of up thee of each.
Damage for a power is BaseDam*(1+DamageEnhancement). Endurance cost for a power is BaseEndCost /(1+EndurenceEnhancement).
Since DPE is damage/end, that means the DPE with enhancements is:
BaseDam/BaseEndCost*(1+DamageEnhancement)*(1+EndurenceEnha ncement).
So you've get to multiply the benefit of the endurance and damage slotting together for DPE.
You can't ignore accuracy here, because accuracy affects average damage, which must therefore affect average DPE.
The reason that IOs are the optimal solution for DPE here is that they allow much more than six slots worth of SO-strength slotting in six (or often just five) slots. You can usually easily approach 3 SOs worth of damage, two SOs worth of endurance, and 1.5 to 2 SOs of both accuracy and recharge.
* Of course, most players do care about time to victory, and this means that damage slotting is the priority, because it improves both DPE and DPS. Increased DPS has the benefit of reducing the time the enemy gets to deal damage to you, affecting how likely you are to win for a given health recovery rate. This is why most SO builds have 3 damage slotted, but only one or two end reducers. The ability of IOs to add accuracy in six slots improves DPS as well.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Still, nicely written.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Well, I've never bothered playing the market before, and I've never used merits for anything before, so I had no way of knowing the relative value of the merits.
Not a big deal to me, really. I now have fewer of something I have never used. I'll know to save them next time.
Some good advice so far in the thread, thanks!
I went looking for them at Wentworth's initially, but there were only a couple of them and people were asking 5 million plus each (for the recipes!). They were 50 merits each, and I wanted to get this thing under way asap. I figure, I can get more recipes over time, but I'm not likely to if I'm not interested in playing the character. Get him playable first, then worry about luxury.
Good advice from the Medbot. |
They have the funds, and are all about finding and using influence sinks that also further a goal.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
6 million "stings"?
Ouch.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Well, I've never bothered playing the market before, and I've never used merits for anything before, so I had no way of knowing the relative value of the merits.
Not a big deal to me, really. I now have fewer of something I have never used. I'll know to save them next time. Some good advice so far in the thread, thanks! |
Heh, ya. Everything is relative. Technaught is my wealthiest character, having around 40 million influence. He stumbled upon a very rare recipe at one point (I don't even remember what it was) that sold for about 50 million (I posted it for 1 million and got 50! Colour me suprised). My next wealthiest has about 7 million, he's L44 (my highest level character, at that).
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If you've got enough merits lying around to blow 300 on junk without batting an eye, use 'em to buy GOOD stuff and rake in fat profits, then you won't have to wheeze and faint at the outrageous prices the next time you go IO shopping.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Heh, ya. Everything is relative. Technaught is my wealthiest character, having around 40 million influence. He stumbled upon a very rare recipe at one point (I don't even remember what it was) that sold for about 50 million (I posted it for 1 million and got 50! Colour me suprised). My next wealthiest has about 7 million, he's L44 (my highest level character, at that).
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Once you get the merit rolling going you should be able to get a fair amount of influence quite quickly.
I have made a billion in a day just doing random hero merit rolls and TF's.
And if you want a super build with zero end problems etc you will realistically be looking at spending 800m or more. Dont get disheartened tho. 800m is really not that hard to make nowadays in CoH.
WTF. This makes less sense the more you talk.
I've been playing a bit over four months and I have somewhere around two and a half billion inf, and my highest level character just made 40 ten minutes ago.
WTF. This makes less sense the more you talk.
I've been playing a bit over four months and I have somewhere around two and a half billion inf, and my highest level character just made 40 ten minutes ago. |
Meh, I'm not really interested in playing the market. That's not what COH was supposed to be about, at least to me.
Meh, I'm not really interested in playing the market. That's not what COH was supposed to be about, at least to me.
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Thankfully, Going Rogue makes gaining inf a lot easier now. Craft a high value recipe such as Luck of the Gambler 7.5% or Kinetic Combat triple, and sell it for at least 100 million, use that inf to buy the cheaper stuff on the planned build. Also use A-merits to get low level Numina and Miracle as soon as possible to immediately help with endurance.
Ideon's Paragonwiki page
Member of Paragon/Rogue Knights
Arc: 60092 - Supa Rumble in the Park
"Keep living the dream, and never let any jerk tell you what to do."
-- High-Roller
Used to be, there were no recipes to sell, no Wentworths. Even after it appeared, I was more interested in being a superhero than a trader, so I tended to just sell everything to stores. Until, that is, I got one or two high price recipes (Poistron's Blast, as I recall). After that, I check to see what they tend to go for. Most of my characters have a dozen unsold recipes sitting there doing nothing.
Meh, I'm not really interested in playing the market. That's not what COH was supposed to be about, at least to me. |
This little bit of less enjoyable stuff lets me play totally free of endurance worries on most of my characters while providing other bonuses as well. Then again, I can't make you like the market and I respect your choice not to use it, but if you choose not to use one of the tools offered to you, you basically give up your right to complain about things not working like you want them to.
I encourage you to use the market at least to the extent to sell your drops. I can't really emphasize this enough, but just selling your drops will get you ridiculous piles of influence. Maybe not right now, maybe not tomorrow, but in a few months' time you'll have a lot of influence. If this doesn't go over your pain threshold, I also encourage you to look at uncommon set IOs. They aren't expensive if you are patient with bids. Even frankenslotting them gets great results and many uncommon set IOs are less expensive than common IOs.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
I encourage you to use the market at least to the extent to sell your drops. I can't really emphasize this enough, but just selling your drops will get you ridiculous piles of influence. Maybe not right now, maybe not tomorrow, but in a few months' time you'll have a lot of influence.
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* If you list the item under 5 inf and someone also pays under 5 inf for it, you will lose money due to the market fee. If you list for exactly 5 inf and someone pays exactly 5 inf, you will neither gain nor lose anything. If you list for 5 inf and someone pays more than 5 inf, you will gain much.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Ok, while some of us may not have Sorrow or the Goat's market aptitide or savvy, it is not something you should turn a blind eye to, especially with some of the complaints you claim to have with your toons. The last few posts have been nearly spot on. Even if you use the market to just take your drops to sell, gou should find yourself in enough inf to make 40mil seem like pretty petty cash. A-merits only make that more pronounced. Get one LotG +7.5 and sell to get you started, and either get specific enhancements if you want them, or roll random and hope you get lucky. My wife and I have used this method with very good results and whereas I have read up on how to do this, she pretty much figured it out even never having been on these forums.
Either way, inf should not be an issue after level twenty, or at least not easily remedied. I would just get the Miracle and Numi uniques yourself so you can get them low level and have them early and for exemplaring.
You can head over to the market forum for nearly step-by-step guides of how to do this. Just try not to be too intimidated by how much they make or how fast they do it (which I admit was what got me at first. Not seeing the exact same results they did used to discourage me a bit, then I realized if it took me an extra couple of days or a week that is no bug deal). You do not need to rush any of their processes, just be diligent.
As far as general power slotting goes to help with endurance goes, Uncommon recipes or even generic IOs are your friend. Even just frankenslotting if you do not care about bonuses. So long as you not trying to do "Stupid <insert AT> tricks," you can get pretty effective toons relatively cheap.
11 months of all-nighters, messy feeding sessions, bath fighting and realizing just how good my son's lungs work, and I am still convinced he is the crowning accomplishment in my life. What in the blue HFIL is wrong with me?
Ok, while some of us may not have Sorrow or the Goat's market aptitide or savvy, it is not something you should turn a blind eye to, especially with some of the complaints you claim to have with your toons. The last few posts have been nearly spot on. Even if you use the market to just take your drops to sell, gou should find yourself in enough inf to make 40mil seem like pretty petty cash. A-merits only make that more pronounced. Get one LotG +7.5 and sell to get you started, and either get specific enhancements if you want them, or roll random and hope you get lucky. My wife and I have used this method with very good results and whereas I have read up on how to do this, she pretty much figured it out even never having been on these forums.
Either way, inf should not be an issue after level twenty, or at least not easily remedied. I would just get the Miracle and Numi uniques yourself so you can get them low level and have them early and for exemplaring. You can head over to the market forum for nearly step-by-step guides of how to do this. Just try not to be too intimidated by how much they make or how fast they do it (which I admit was what got me at first. Not seeing the exact same results they did used to discourage me a bit, then I realized if it took me an extra couple of days or a week that is no bug deal). You do not need to rush any of their processes, just be diligent. As far as general power slotting goes to help with endurance goes, Uncommon recipes or even generic IOs are your friend. Even just frankenslotting if you do not care about bonuses. So long as you not trying to do "Stupid <insert AT> tricks," you can get pretty effective toons relatively cheap. |
Good advice from the Medbot.
Did you check the market for the recipes or just the crafted enhancements? Those always go for far more than the recipes. Just buy them in Steel and you're two jumps away from crafting tables.
@Quantum Evil Rad/Rad Corruptor
Making the world safe for maleficent particles since 2004.