Endurance.


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biospark View Post
IOs are the solution. For two reasons;

A) You can get End recovery in many set bonuses (Thunderstrike for example)
Three sets of this will give you 6% more endurance recovery. That's enough to cover the cost of Hover.

B) Slotting IOs will net you more enhancement than simple SOs. Again Thunderstrike is a great example. 6-slotted Thunderstrike will yield 2 SOs ACC, 3 SOs DMG, 2 SOs Recharge and 2 SOs EndReduc. Thats 9 SOs if you were counting, but with only 6 slots.

If you 6-slot each of your three single target attacks with Thunderstrike you will ALSO get;

6% Endurance Recovery
21% GLOBAL Accuracy
12% GLOBAL Movement speed increase AND...
11.25% Defense to Ranged, Energy, Negative

Both my Energy Blast characters are Hover style blasters with Range Defense as their Focus. Thunderstrike is THE set for that tactic.
I see. This is the kind of advice I was hoping for, thanks. However, the next question is, how much can I expect this to cost?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimo_ View Post
Hm. The question becomes, then, where can I squeeze out more endurance? As I say, I've tried slotting for endurance, damage and both at once. Nothing seems to help. On the other hand, those numbers include Combat Jumping and Assault. The projected build doesn't include Combat Jumping (that extra 2% Defense didn't seem to make a significant difference), though it uses very little endurance.

My thinking was that IOs might be the solution, but I've never dealt with them at all; they tend to be prohibitively expensive to buy or make.
IOs aren't THAT expensive, and if you have patience, you can get the recipes for an absolute steal if you want to. (Then craft the IO and put it up for sale at a silly profit. Then get the recipe for cheap again. Repeat.) But for Endurance woes, might I suggest a Cardiac Boost Incarnate Ability? It's an ITF, four Shards and 150 Vanguard Merits. (Or just 12 shards if you're going solo.) It's a free Endurance Reduction SO in every power that can take one and a sixth of it ignores ED. Get one of the Cardiac Uncommons and it becomes a third.

Speaking of inventions, have you considered the Recovery Serum temp Power? It does exactly what it sounds like, and it's usually pretty cheap.

Also, consider toggling off your Resistance toggles when fighting enemies that do exotic damage, rather than Smashing/Lethal. Neither Tough nor Temp Invul protects against that, so you're just wasting End by running them.

EDIT: As to how to be able to afford it, I have two words for you: "Hero Merits". I'm not suggesting you run hundreds of Tips to get all the pieces this way, I'm suggesting you run 20 Tips and get two Hero Merits. Then look at the market, especially at the Luck of the Gambler Global Recharge crafted IOs (not the recipes, the IO itself) and find out what level sells for the most today. Get one of those recipes for your Hero Merits, craft it and list it for about 100 million. Yes, really. Then wait a few days and cash in. You now have 100-150 million inf to spend on IOs. Repeat as often as needed. Inf is surprisingly easy to get on the market, if you're wiling to be a bit patient.


Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by McNum View Post
IOs aren't THAT expensive, and if you have patience, you can get the recipes for an absolute steal if you want to. (Then craft the IO and put it up for sale at a silly profit. Then get the recipe for cheap again. Repeat.) But for Endurance woes, might I suggest a Cardiac Boost Incarnate Ability? It's an ITF, four Shards and 150 Vanguard Merits. (Or just 12 shards if you're going solo.) It's a free Endurance Reduction SO in every power that can take one and a sixth of it ignores ED. Get one of the Cardiac Uncommons and it becomes a third.

Speaking of inventions, have you considered the Recovery Serum temp Power? It does exactly what it sounds like, and it's usually pretty cheap.

Also, consider toggling off your Resistance toggles when fighting enemies that do exotic damage, rather than Smashing/Lethal. Neither Tough nor Temp Invul protects against that, so you're just wasting End by running them.
Fortunately, this character has (for me) a significant amount of Influence, but it's not infinite. Further, I'm only L41 right now. It will be some considerable time until I reach L50 (consider, I've been playing for years and don't have even one L50 character). I usually do turn off Tough if I'm not going to be dealing with smashing or lethal damage.

I'll look into the Thunderstrike IOs, and see if they're something I can afford.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimo_ View Post
I see. This is the kind of advice I was hoping for, thanks. However, the next question is, how much can I expect this to cost?
Depends on how patient you are with the market.

If I am willing to work the market, I can get most of the Thunderstrike recipes for 250K or less(each). But if I am not feeling very patient (which is most times) I have spent upwards of 2.5 million per recipe. So... thats 4.5 million up to 45 million for three full sets of Thunderstrike.

Usually, I get all my salvage with AE tickets and buy the Thunderstrike IO recipes at whatever level I can get. It is often easier to get recipes at the max level, but check every level to see what is available before putting up bids.


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

Posted

Ah, right. I saw a level 50 build and assumed you had a level 50 Defender. Well at level 41, there are some interesting opportunities as well. You already have Conserve Power, I assume? Don't put it on auto, fire it off together with Hasten so the increased End use from using your attacks faster is countered by Conserve Power. Then there's Force of Nature. If I remember right, it has a Recovery boost as well so if it gets bad, you can alternate these two.

Really, get to level 42 and slot up CP (Three Recharge SOs/IOs) and use it with Hasten, or if your End begins getting low. And when you get Force of Nature, use that for boss fights so you can recover End and have high resistance.


Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimo_ View Post
Fortunately, this character has (for me) a significant amount of Influence, but it's not infinite. Further, I'm only L41 right now. It will be some considerable time until I reach L50 (consider, I've been playing for years and don't have even one L50 character). I usually do turn off Tough if I'm not going to be dealing with smashing or lethal damage.

I'll look into the Thunderstrike IOs, and see if they're something I can afford.
You need to get a character to level 50. Seriously, it will solve many of your problems.

For example, Today I logged on Biospark and did my 5 tip missions set to +0/x2 cause I was not feeling like working too hard and got a purple recipe (Ragnarok iirc), sold it for 400million. This cannot happen with a character that is below level 50.

Also, you can run story arcs to get merits and purchase recipes that sell very well on the market and make some influence to bank-roll your characters. 200 merits = 100million influence. Think about it.
Edit: As mentioned by McNum, Hero Merits are another way to get "sellable" recipes, but I personally use Hero Merits for my own "hard-to-get" recipes, like Miracle, LotG, Steadfast etc...


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimo_ View Post
I see. This is the kind of advice I was hoping for, thanks. However, the next question is, how much can I expect this to cost?
Energy Blast has 3 -4 attacks that will accept Thunderstrike (I would slot Power Push with Kinetic Crash instead, it's pretty cheap as well)

So that's 18 IOs you need to 6 slot all of them. Last I checked Thunderstrikes were going for 2 million to 5 million for the crafted enhancement. Pretty sure you can get the recipes for around 100k each, at which point you just have to take the time to craft them.

You should be able to 6 slot all 3 powers for under 30 million (well under, if you are patient enough to post a bid and wait for a few days for it to fill) If you're level 41, you should have gotten close to that much just by putting stuff on the market (please tell me you didn't vendor every IO recipe you've ever had drop, if you did you flushed millions down the drain, market prices work to your advantage too, not just against you)

The other main problem you are having here is you are doing this experiment with one of the lowest possible damage output characters in the game. A FF/Energy defender doesn't deal much damage because it's secondary is on the low end of defender damage (I think only Assault Rifle and Electric are lower), and your primary isn't giving you any kind of damage boost effects or useful damage boosting debuffs at all. Since your damage output is so low, it is naturally going to take you more endurance to kill a tough enemy. That is a big part of why FF defenders are generally considered one of the more team-based builds.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

I don't get what I just read.


 

Posted

Completely agree with using Thunderstrike as a starting point for getting cheap IO sets into your powers. To be honest, you'll be amazed by the difference. Kinetic Crash advice is also very good. Specifically, Power Bolt, Power Blast, and Power Burst should be your bread and butter attacks, and most difinately 6 slotted with Thunderstrike. This change alone will make a big difference in performance.

I'd start by putting up relatively lowball bids on recipes immediately. Some will fill right away...others you may have to wait a few days, or a week, maybe even longer(although I doubt it). I'd put up bids on anything you can slot immediately. As you buy them, slot 'em up. I'm gonna get into game now and take a look at Thunderstrike recipes in the high 30s, low 40s right now and see what you're up against...

Edit: Well, they seem to be pretty scarce right now....many bids with none for sale. It's a very popular set. The history says that at most levels they sell daily though. It'll be more expensive than the previously mentioned 30 million, but not by much...say 50 million for three sets.
If you're truly just trying to improve your character, I'll toss you a couple hundred million to get you going. My global is @Ignatz and I usually can be found Sunday mornings after 6AM PST, Monday evenings after 9PM PST, and late night after 3AM PST every other day.


 

Posted

Finally! I've told you to get Thunderstrike in every thread like this, even this one.

Thunderstrike is cheap and awesome.

It gives you bonus recovery, and global accuracy so you don't waste end by missing.

It carries the equivalent of 3 Dam, 2 Acc, 2 End Redux and 3 recharge in the powers its slotted in. (Almost 2 of each...)

It will cap your Ranged Defence on a FF Defender.

Do it do it do it! Six slot Power Blast, Power Bolt and Power Burst with this, change nothing else and tell me you don't feel the difference!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biospark View Post
You need to get a character to level 50. Seriously, it will solve many of your problems.

For example, Today I logged on Biospark and did my 5 tip missions set to +0/x2 cause I was not feeling like working too hard and got a purple recipe (Ragnarok iirc), sold it for 400million. This cannot happen with a character that is below level 50.
It can happen with any character 47 or higher as long as they aren't set below +0. 48 or higher if they're set to -1. (Unless of course i19 changed the drop rules for purples.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMike2000 View Post
Finally! I've told you to get Thunderstrike in every thread like this, even this one.

Thunderstrike is cheap and awesome.

It gives you bonus recovery, and global accuracy so you don't waste end by missing.

It carries the equivalent of 3 Dam, 2 Acc, 2 End Redux and 3 recharge in the powers its slotted in. (Almost 2 of each...)

It will cap your Ranged Defence on a FF Defender.

Do it do it do it! Six slot Power Blast, Power Bolt and Power Burst with this, change nothing else and tell me you don't feel the difference!
i <3 Thunderstrike. The uncommon set with uncommonly good bonuses. My FF users and Widows have at least one set slotted in each build.


Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

Posted

Re: buying IOs.

It is almost always cheaper to buy recipes and salvage and craft the IOs yourself. That said, it is also often worth browsing through the listings to look for pre-crafted bargains. Which brings me to point 2...

It's helpful to understand that there is pretty marginal improvement between level 35 IOs and level 50 IOs in terms of the basic % bonus they grant. E.g. a level 35 acc/dam IO gives a total of 45.88% in acc/dam bonuses, while a level 50 gives a total of 53%. This leaves a pretty wide range of levels in which to hunt for bargains. The highest supply and, generally, highest prices, are at level 50, but with a little patience and being willing to leave in lowball bids for recipes over a range of levels, you can make big savings.

Lower-levels IOs have the secondary benefit of letting you keep the set bonuses when exemped down. My FF/ defender is largely outfitted with level 33 IOs, which let her keep the set bonuses down to level 30. (She has an unusually matching collection, though, simply because I vastly prefer playing her in teams to plinking things to death while solo, so I exemp down a lot.)

Really, you should have a look at IO sets. Once you get into them, designing builds can get fun in its own right, and they're perfect for doing exactly what you want to do here -- what seems like a small amount of +def, +rec or +dam really adds up.


Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.

 

Posted

You might also consider frakenslotting attacks. Ignore set bonuses, grab IOs with the enhancement values you want from different sets, and stick them in there. You won't gain much in the way of set bonuses, other than random strays that may or may not be helpful, you can easily get six slots worth of enhancements in three or four slots.

Also, if you're having endurance issues, Hasten is bad. Very bad. Not only will attacks be recharging faster, meaning increased end usage, it also has a crash of 15 end which can really hurt if it happens at a critical moment if you're not very end efficient yet.

You may also consider looking at the Dark and Electric APPs. Both have a PBAoE end drain power that can refill you every so often. Electric especially, since its end drain is auto hit. Just shove a bunch of recharge in it and you'll have far fewer end problems. It's more effective than Conserve Power by far. Electric also as Thunderstrike (the move, not the IO) which is similar to Total Focus but also PBAoE. So, you won't entirely lose your favorite power.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimo_ View Post
Reread the post above yours. This thread is about making a build that is more endurance efficient. I haven't posted on this topic before, though I have posted about endurance before.
Pounding on a single, even-con target for 5, 10, 20 minutes is not an efficient use of endurance. If you're taking more than a minute or two to knock off an even-con target, then your build is inefficient.

Throw some Procs into your Tier 1 and 2 attacks, as well as Air Sup.


 

Posted

What I don't get about this alleged experiment (aside form the bizarre slotting and obvious intent to "prove" a specific point) is that you used a Force Fields/Energy Defender against a single boss.

A mature Force Fielder totally owns a single boss. Mutliple foes can present quite a challenge, but just ONE guy is all-but-helpless against you if you use any of several different tools. The two easiest would be Force Bubble or Force Bolt, either one.

MY FF/Energy Defender, built more conventionally, used to farm the Winter Event missions for my own amusement. Snaptooth is an Elite Boss, and a hard hitter -- much stronger than the Rikti scum you tackled here -- and he was completely helpless, spending most of the fight upside-down and ragdolled, flattened against a wall by Force Bubble.

And that was before IOs. AND before the Defender damage increase in Vigilance.

I'm not some kind of super-genius. You can do this too.

A FF Defender may not be the ultimate warrior, but in this case you have the perfect character for lopsidedly crushing a single boss. Slot normally -- not like your first posted build -- and it'll not only be doable, it'll be easy.


If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

Posted

Increasing the damage of an attack increases it's endurance efficiency at the same rate as increasing its endurance reduction.

Similarly, increasing the ACCURACY of an attack increases it's endurance efficiency at the same rate as increasing its endurance reduction, except in cases where the amount of gained hit-rate from the accuracy slotting is above the 95% cap for your intended target.

The advantage that both of these slotting options have over endurance reduction is that, like endurance reduction, both also increase the speed at which things die. This has a teritary endurance benefit of requiring less endurance invested in surviving, via buffs, debuffs, and controls.

A similar comparative relationship can be drawn between Accuracy and Damage, and Recharge reduction, when observing DPS as opposed to DPE, with the missing benefit of Recharge slotting being Efficiency.

For optimal efficiency (Damage per Endurance per slot), slot exactly enough accuracy to reach the to-hit cap, then exactly that amount of endurance reduction and damage.

Figure out what to do with the excess space yourself based on the particular priorities of the character in question, noting that survivability powers magnify the benefit of increased kill speed in increasing efficiency due to the fact that every second the enemy lives incurs a cost in endurance to survive their attacks, regardless of whether controls, buffs, or debuffs are the tools being used.


Mission Arc: Metatronic Mayhem (Id 1750): A tale of robots gone wrong, rogue robots gone right, and madmen gone every which way but loose.

 

Posted

I went and got the Thunderstrike set from the Merit Vendor in the Atlas Wentworth's, but don't have enough merits to get two sets, let alone three.

I had most of the necessary salvage already, and the stuff I needed to buy wasn't terribly expensive. Crafting them myself thus cost a total of about 6 million for the entire set. That stings, but I noticed a difference, even with only one set of them. I can imagine three sets will be very nice indeed.

Just a little update.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimo_ View Post
There's been a lot of constructive posts here. Try to remain constructive, I'm not going to respond to baiting posts like these last two.


I went and got the Thunderstrike set from the Merit Vendor in the Atlas Wentworth's, but don't have enough merits to get two sets, let alone three.

I had most of the necessary salvage already, and the stuff I needed to buy wasn't terribly expensive. Crafting them myself thus cost a total of about 6 million for the entire set. That stings, but I noticed a difference, even with only one set of them. I can imagine three sets will be very nice indeed.

Just a little update.
How many merits did those Thunderstrikes cost? Did you buy them individually from the merit vendor?


@Quantum Evil Rad/Rad Corruptor

Making the world safe for maleficent particles since 2004.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FizRep View Post
How many merits did those Thunderstrikes cost? Did you buy them individually from the merit vendor?
*huh* And to think i would've just done a bunch of rolls and then sold off any unneeded recipes on the market and then bought the Thunderstrike recipes from there. Actually purchasing each of the recipes with merits when they're relatively affordable uncommons on the market seems slightly demented.

Unless of course he's completely opposed to the idea of buying stuff from other people for some reason. All the advice given for using Thunderstrikes was based on the premise that they would be acquired on the market. Hell, most of the time i bid on the already crafted ones for convenience's sake.


Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

Posted

Long time observer of these threads, this one seems above average.

Haven't seen it mentioned but popping in the Numinas and Miracle Unique IOs in 2 of your health slots will give you another 25% recovery which iirc is equal to base Stamina. Each for only 2 Alignment Merits each. (if market is too pricey)

Unless you're sold on Power Mastery, Dark Mastery gives Dark Consumption at 41 which is a nice +end power, as opposed to Conserve Power's end cost reduction.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
What I don't get about this alleged experiment (aside form the bizarre slotting and obvious intent to "prove" a specific point) is that you used a Force Fields/Energy Defender against a single boss.

A mature Force Fielder totally owns a single boss. Mutliple foes can present quite a challenge, but just ONE guy is all-but-helpless against you if you use any of several different tools. The two easiest would be Force Bubble or Force Bolt, either one.

MY FF/Energy Defender, built more conventionally, used to farm the Winter Event missions for my own amusement. Snaptooth is an Elite Boss, and a hard hitter -- much stronger than the Rikti scum you tackled here -- and he was completely helpless, spending most of the fight upside-down and ragdolled, flattened against a wall by Force Bubble.

And that was before IOs. AND before the Defender damage increase in Vigilance.

I'm not some kind of super-genius. You can do this too.

A FF Defender may not be the ultimate warrior, but in this case you have the perfect character for lopsidedly crushing a single boss. Slot normally -- not like your first posted build -- and it'll not only be doable, it'll be easy.
And this is exactly what I was saying at the end of my post. You've got a guy running like 5 toggles for little bits of defense when, ultimately, you're ignoring what mitigation FF and Energy Blasts provides. Against a group of foes, you've got Repulsion Bomb and Force Bubble to either put them on their butt or keep them away from you, yet vs a single target, they practically won't touch you.

Between the KD from your blasts and Force Bolt alone, you could probably go without *any* extra toggles and be just fine. But I'd keep Dispersion bubble up for the mez protection and assault up for the damage.

You don't even need Air Superiority. It's damage is ignorable and its mitigation is redundant with the powers you got.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimo_ View Post
I went and got the Thunderstrike set from the Merit Vendor in the Atlas Wentworth's, but don't have enough merits to get two sets, let alone three.
Big mistake.

Thunderstrike is plentiful and cheap. Don't waste your merits on such an easy to find set, use those for hero/villain merits, buying specific hard to get recipies or just random roll for profit (selling what you get, keep anything good that you need for 0 cost).

I suggest you do some AE arcs and use the tickets for random rolls. I always get extra Thunderstrikes that way that I usually throw away because I have so many of them. The idea is to do random rolls, check what sells and what doesn't then act accordingly. If you do this, you'll realize just how abundant Thunderstrike is.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by McNum View Post
EDIT: As to how to be able to afford it, I have two words for you: "Hero Merits". I'm not suggesting you run hundreds of Tips to get all the pieces this way, I'm suggesting you run 20 Tips and get two Hero Merits. Then look at the market, especially at the Luck of the Gambler Global Recharge crafted IOs (not the recipes, the IO itself) and find out what level sells for the most today. Get one of those recipes for your Hero Merits, craft it and list it for about 100 million. Yes, really. Then wait a few days and cash in. You now have 100-150 million inf to spend on IOs. Repeat as often as needed. Inf is surprisingly easy to get on the market, if you're wiling to be a bit patient.
I want to second the advise on hero merits - L25 LoTG +recharge IO's were selling for around 200 million the last time I checked - that is the recipes as well as the crafted IO's so you could probably make a decent amount of money without even having to craft it right now. Run tip missions to earn 2 hero merits, buy a L25 LoTG +recharge recipe and drop it on the market - bang, you have enough to buy as many thunderstrike sets as you need and it will take 4 days total. If you have to much trouble running the tip missions on THIS char, you can run them on a more solo oriented character and give the money to your defender.

You can also get a numina +regen/+recover and miracle +recovery unique this way, both cost 2 hero merits just like the LoTG +recharge and will go a long ways to solving end problems. Now that fitness is automatically given you can easily slot one of those uniques in health at NO cost.


Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13

 

Posted

I went looking for them at Wentworth's initially, but there were only a couple of them and people were asking 5 million plus each (for the recipes!). They were 50 merits each, and I wanted to get this thing under way asap. I figure, I can get more recipes over time, but I'm not likely to if I'm not interested in playing the character. Get him playable first, then worry about luxury.

Good advice from the Medbot.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimo_ View Post
I went looking for them at Wentworth's initially, but there were only a couple of them and people were asking 5 million plus each (for the recipes!).
level 50 Acc/Dam 6k
level 50 acc/dam/end 100k
level 50 acc/dam/rech 100k
level 50 dam/end 100k
level 50 dam/end/rech 250k (with one 10k sale in the mix)
level 50 dam/rech 250k

as of 8pm PST Saturday night.


if I were a bargain hunter I could go level fishing between 45-50 and get them cheaper.


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