Re: Sister Psyche and Manticore

The problem I have with that outlook (which does ring true, by the way) is that if I want a hero to still be a good guy, but not be necessarily a nice guy, I have to go rogue, which takes me through villain. The next step down from hero is already far too far down the rabbit hole.

My problem with vigilantes isn't really with how people interpret them, but rather with what they represent, as determined from the kinds of missions vigilantes need to take on to become a vigilante in the first place.

My interpretation of "vigilante" is a person who follows the spirit of the law, but not the letter of the law. For instance: "Screw warrants! I just saw the bad guy run into that club, so I'm going in there to pull him out by the neck and sit him in that squad car right over there. Then let 'em chew me out afterwards." or "I don't care if I'm off the case. I can't let them bring that weapon shipment in the country and sink that container of illegal immigrants along the way." In essence, I see a vigilante as a marked GOOD guy who's still trying to do good, just not always in legal way.

The game's interpretation of "vigilante" seems to be "jerkass." Far from following the spirit of the law, your typical vigilante tip has you completely ignore and oftentimes intentionally break the law. More than that, it has you abandon all pretence of good taste, higher ideals or even heroism in pursuit for what can often be described as outright villainy. I've gone on the record as supporting heroes who kill in combat, but even I don't condone intentional assassination as a heroic act.

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I like Praetoria's grey and grey morality where there aren't any real good guys and any real bad guys, and everyone's dirty in some way. It's appropriate for that setting and that atmosphere. This has no place in the rest of the game's black and white morality, and I honestly wish the writers wouldn't apply the latest development toy to EVERYTHING in the game, new or old. Sometimes it fits, sometimes it doesn't.

Why couldn't we have had a single third alignment: Rogue and just had that play the role of both rogue hero AND rogue villain? That way we don't have to argue which shade of grey is brighter than which other.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Yeah, I do think the Vigilante missions are probably the least well written/balanced of the lot. Rogues, Heroes and Villains missions all sit fine with me, but I would agree with the Vigilantes coming off more as 'Jerks' than actually, y'know...Punisher/Batman type characters. It's pretty much like you're already decided to run, skip and jump into villainy, which doesnt really work for me either.
That said, I'm not actually keeping any of my characters at Vigilante, because none of them really are True cut Heroes, Villains or Rogues, no vig's though. *shrug*

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I considered the vigilantes bad people from the start, and rogues relatively good, so I rather like how these are set up. After encountering some of the deranged vigilante fantasies some people have posted, advertising obviously the vig implications in giant neon letters is kind of refreshing and is somewhat like Watchmen, but with lesser writing. Those who want to be a vigilante in the sense you said can easily do so as heroes.

I complain that they are considered heroes for base and oro while rogues are not, however.

Two gray alignments is probably the only way they could get the alignment system to work.

This is going to sound weird, but...

I consider all Resistance members villainous. They are nothing but deranged terrorists (even Devore admits that Calvin Scott has utterly and completely fallen off the deep end), seeking to destroy a relative utopia. That is why I never play Resistance; I simply feel too evil, too destructive.

All of my toons are either true-blue heroes or psychopathic and homicidal maniacs.

Loyalist Power is of a similar vein to the Rogue missions.