Re: Sister Psyche and Manticore
By
Amerikatt,
Posted on: 2010-11-18 08:19 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
So where would it's emotions come from?
|
Originally Posted by RadDidIt
.......any sufficiently advanced AI would be indistinguishable from biological intelligence.
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
The same place human emotions come from. Emotions are just a response to stimuli.
|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
So where would it's emotions come from?
|
Quote:
They're a little more complex than that |
Originally Posted by LISAR
The same place human emotions come from. Emotions are just a response to stimuli.
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
No, not really..|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Why? Because I said the crushingly stupid teenage boy fantasy of a "real" robot is something that'll never happen?
Why? For knowing that the most sophisticated robot would never be anywhere near the level of mental development of the most knuckle-scraping AE farming man-child on Freedom server? |
More because it's that sort of totally unbending believe in how utterly right you are, without compromise, that drives people to do insane things. Like Crusades, purges, holocausts...that kinda thing.
No one can argue with you. People can present well laid out, well reasoned arguements, and you'll either ignore them or simply quip it off.
For example, why is a sentient robot a 'crushingly stupid teenage boy fantasy'? You probably won't answer that, because your so convinced your right and other people are wrong.
Your the kind of person who is convinced their right and good...even when they stop being so.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
Quote:
From listening to Tammy Wynette records.
|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
So where would it's emotions come from?
|
Quote:
Really?|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
They're a little more complex than that
|
Prove it.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
Quote:
Well, think of all the emotions and thoughts and dreams and things you say and do when you're in a realtionship,a dn how they're all conntected with limitless possibilities for cross-referencing - and then tell me how you'd program those |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Really?
Prove it. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
When you get down to the base, basest level...what is that other than a calculated response based on a range of available options? |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Well, think of all the emotions and thoughts and dreams and things you say and do when you're in a realtionship,a dn how they're all conntected with limitless possibilities for cross-referencing - and then tell me how you'd program those
|
I'm not saying we will 100% see sci-fi level AI anytime soon, or even ever. But just ruling it out as 'Its never going to happen'? Thats just...well, daft. What we think is impossible now might become reality in 200 years.
After all, if you'd said 200 years ago that you'd be able to fly anywhere in the world within a few hours, you'd have been locked up in an Asylum. Because, back then, flight was like us talking about sentient AIs.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
Quote:
The funny thing is, you're forgetting the genre you're playing in. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Feel free to show me a robot that can do anything other than respond from a pre-selected set of responses
Machines can never have an imagination - they're too limited - the best they can ever do is respond to things based on the stuff we've programmed into them - they can never have emotions. |
Perhaps in real life, you are right.
But in the genre inwhich you play, you're wrong. Robots gaining souls, is possible (though truthfully, I don't think it's commonly looked into either).
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Not really, no - flight is a simple physical thing - it can be defined by physics, and is based on solid principles that can be broken down and studied, and then created and recreated.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
When you get down to the base, basest level...what is that other than a calculated response based on a range of available options?
I'm not saying we will 100% see sci-fi level AI anytime soon, or even ever. But just ruling it out as 'Its never going to happen'? Thats just...well, daft. What we think is impossible now might become reality in 200 years. After all, if you'd said 200 years ago that you'd be able to fly anywhere in the world within a few hours, you'd have been locked up in an Asylum. Because, back then, flight was like us talking about sentient AIs. |
Emotions are the opposite - they can't be defined or rationalized or broken down to be studied, or be created or recreated.
If someone wanted to know how flight works, they could read about it and understand it - but something like love can't be defined or understood - it can't be made to happen and it can't be made to stop, and it can't be copied - it's just something that's inside all of us, and it's one of the things that makes us human - and it's something that a computer can never feel.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
See, if you made all your posts that concise, I wouldn't end up snapping when I get a headache from trying to decipher your one liners...|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Not really, no - flight is a simple physical thing - it can be defined by physics, and is based on solid principles that can be broken down and studied, and then created and recreated.
Emotions are the opposite - they can't be defined or rationalized or broken down to be studied, or be created or recreated. If someone wanted to know how flight works, they could read about it and understand it - but something like love can't be defined or understood - it can't be made to happen and it can't be made to stop, and it can't be copied - it's just something that's inside all of us, and it's one of the things that makes us human - and it's something that a computer can never feel. |
Myeah, I can give you that, yes. But theres still no 100% proof guarentee that, in future, machines and computers may well advance to such a level as to be indistinguishable from a brain. The computers and such of the present day, yes; them becoming sentient is indeed a 0% chance. But just the same as people 200 years ago didnt have the technology to study and in turn replicate flight, theres nothing stopping people in the future from studying and crafting a computer capable of sentient thought.
Dismissing it totally is a very, very narrow minded view.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
Quote:
That's a very romantic take on it. But you know eventually someone will come along and figure it all out.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
If someone wanted to know how flight works, they could read about it and understand it - but something like love can't be defined or understood - it can't be made to happen and it can't be made to stop, and it can't be copied - it's just something that's inside all of us, and it's one of the things that makes us human - and it's something that a computer can never feel.
|
Could this be Love?
Humans are simply electro-chemical machines. While our veins aren't silicon, there's very little difference in the way our body regulates itself with electrical impulses and the way a computer regulates itself with electrical impulses. We're pretty much meat-robots.
Quote:
Not quite, no |
Originally Posted by Scythus
Humans are simply electro-chemical machines.
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Oh really? So you are completely ignorant of biology? Unaware of the electrical stimuli sent from the brain to tell particular chemical impulses within a muscle to stretch or contract? Unaware that chemical interaction in the brain is responsible for most emotional states? Scientists can easily make you happy or sad by connecting you to a machine that creates electrical stimulation of the appropriate areas of the brain.
So... very quite, yes.
Quote:
That still has nothing to do with emotions, thoughts, memories or dreams.
|
Originally Posted by Scythus
Oh really? So you are completely ignorant of biology? Unaware of the electrical stimuli sent from the brain to tell particular chemical impulses within a muscle to stretch or contract? Unaware that chemical interaction in the brain is responsible for most emotional states? Scientists can easily make you happy or sad by connecting you to a machine that creates electrical stimulation of the appropriate areas of the brain.
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I already covered emotions. Computers also possess memory, so you're screwed there. Hell, they can remember things better than we can. And the latter are influenced through external interactions much like memory is. Many dreams are influenced by the memories of things we've experienced, be it a stroll through a park or a movie we watched and they function much like how a screensaver does.
Quote:
No you didn't - you said the brain can be made to feel happy or sad - that's not the same as normal emotions that come from normal things. |
Originally Posted by Scythus
I already covered emotions.
|
Quote:
| Computers also possess memory, so you're screwed there. Hell, they can remember things better than we can. And the latter are influenced through external interactions much like memory is. Many dreams are influenced by the memories of things we've experienced, be it a stroll through a park or a movie we watched and they function much like how a screensaver does. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
All of things you discuss are purely dominated by the interaction of chemicals within our brains. Without that chemical interaction, you wouldn't be able to experience them. Every chemical interaction you have in your brain is influenced by external stimuli that creates the electrical signals that release the mixture of those chemicals.
You are a machine made from meat.
You're kidding, right, GG? I mean, you must be playing devil's advocate. Emotions are NOTHING but bio-electric signals and hormone dumps used to respond to different stimuli.
There is no such thing as "just" an emotion free from it (it being the above statement). EVERY emotion has direct effect on the body as a whole; everything in your body is, technically, knowable. It's ignorance of the worst kind to think otherwise.
Quote:
I'm glad you were able to provide a definitive answer on this.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Feel free to show me a robot that can do anything other than respond from a pre-selected set of responses
Machines can never have an imagination - they're too limited - the best they can ever do is respond to things based on the stuff we've programmed into them - they can never have emotions. |
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go consult a caveman about a problem with my car.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
A machine doesn't have a soul - we do.
|
Originally Posted by Scythus
All of things you discuss are purely dominated by the interaction of chemicals within our brains. Without that chemical interaction, you wouldn't be able to experience them. Every chemical interaction you have in your brain is influenced by external stimuli that creates the electrical signals that release the mixture of those chemicals.
You are a machine made from meat. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
Emotions are something deeper than just stimulation - they're part of our consciousness, which makes us who we are.|
Originally Posted by RadDidIt
Emotions are NOTHING but bio-electric signals and hormone dumps used to respond to different stimuli.
|
Quote:
| There is no such thing as "just" an emotion free from it (it being the above statement). EVERY emotion has direct effect on the body as a whole; everything in your body is, technically, knowable. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork