Re: Sister Psyche and Manticore

I realize this has probably been brought up, but, I can't seem to find the thread to discuss this, nor any comic book referrence; so, I'm discussing it here, and not doing anymore legwork. That said, here I go...

This whole Sister Psyche and Manticore thing put a bug in my craw. Eventually, his secret, no matter how well he tries to hide it will become known to Sister Psyche. So, what's going to happen? Is she going to say nothing and allow Justin to simply assassinate people at his own jurisprudence? Will she confront him? Or... will she tell the others, and participate in a group discussion? The fact remains that the thing Justin Sinclair hides is that he is the head of Wyvern, a known mercenary organization that /hunts down and kills/ those who /they/ see as villainous threats. And, if Shalice allows him to do this, is she any better than the villains? Does she figure her stature gained from past heroics allows her to stand by and allow acts of villainy to be performed?

It is in CoH print that she is capable of finding the identities of villains and their weaknesses and telepathically notifying her teammates. I wonder how many times Manticore used this information to ruthlessly and unheroicly stalk and slaughter an unsuspecting foe? Surely, Sister Psyche would have to realize, once she finds his secret, (and it is inevitable, if she is his wife, that she will find it out) that her relationship has just hit a serious crossroads. Now some would say I have something against them. Well, I don't.

I have something against Manticore, and it dates back to when I first played CoV in its beta days. How can a hero in Paragon City go around sounding as sanctimonious as he does, and get away with what he does? This effectively makes Manticore the all-time epic winner of the Top Villain Award. Defend it as you will, but the truth is standing right there. I'm not here to talk about Batman or some other vigilante. I'm here to discuss why Manticore is still a hero, when he isn't. He's a murderer; and, if he can hide it from Sister Psyche, then psychics in this universe truly suck.

Is there any reason why she wouldn't already know, what with being a psychic and all?

*edit*
Additionally, the entire rhetoric that "heroes shouldn't kill" really doesn't apply to City of Heroes given what we do. You can choose to have YOUR hero not kill, but that doesn't make MY Mage-Killer any less heroic in my eyes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Just because it says he sometimes uses lethal force, doesn't mean he kills every street thug he ever puts away.

Theres a difference between using a Stun arrow on a Hellion and slamming them in jail and rehab, and putting a bodkin arrow through the throat of a 5th Column Ubermench Oberst who is looking to detonate a bomb that would bring an entire city zone crashing down, for example.

Yes, he uses lethal force. It doesn't say anywhere that he uses it all the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Killing is frowned upon...not prohibited.

If she's gonna take down Manticore for Wyvern, then she's got to also take down Ms Liberty for Longbow, and probably also Lady Gray for Vanguard.

I think it would be silly to think he has ANY secrets from her at this point.

Were I writing a story about this, I'd have some device Manticore uses to shield his thoughts from Sister Psyche. Or, alternately, have her agree with his methods.

"Stopping villains before they get too powerful" doesn't automatically mean killing them. It could be that Manticore only kills those who are a clear and immediate threat to the populace or have already murdered someone. He's just cutting out the middleman.

The greatest flaw about the Joker in the Batman comics is that he's been portrayed as a multiple murderer, a mass murderer and serial killer. Yet Batman never kills him. Then Joker inevitably escapes from Arkham Asylum and kills again. The blood of those who were murdered is on Batman's hands. Manticore is a direct Batman analogue (with Green Arrow's signature ability overlain), so it's a relevant comparison. I'm not opposed to heroes behaving this way and still calling them heroes. Sometimes a hero has to make the tough choice and live with the consequences. So long as he lives and acts under a strict code and never breaks it, I'm good.

Not to get political, but soldiers and policemen kill people in the line of duty, and they are generally thought of as heroes. Having said that, though, they can also be real villains if they kill innocent or unarmed people, such as if they torch a village of civilians.

Whether a person is a hero or a villain often boils down to their particular situation. If a superpowered person who has a clear advantage over a villain chooses to kill him, to me, that makes the person a villain. If your level 50 blows up a Hellion instead of simply disarming him and hauling him off to the Zig, even though the superpowered person is well capable of doing the latter with little to no risk, then if he or she chooses to kill instead, that makes them pretty scummy.

On the other hand, if a superpowered person has no other recourse but to put a bullet in the brainpan of a Malta Operative to keep him from killing a kidnapping victim that is in immediate danger, I think it's altogether appropriate and heroic for them to do so.