2 billion per enhancer

For example....I value getting to #1 prestige with my 2-person VG on Freedom highly. Highly enough that I've spent more than 50 billion of my own inf on this project so far. And thats not even a useful item in-game...its just some odd goal or maybe bragging rights....or perhaps an intended retort to the spamming recruiters who keep asking me in unsolicited tells to join their group.

Not to mention I've gotten 4 purple drops in the last 3 weeks (two over the last two nights) from my Tip 'farming'. 5 missions a day. Easy, fun, smashy, and good salvage/orange drops as well. *shrugs*

Twipper

Wow.

This thread took a totally awesome turn with this gem.

I suspect Fulmens actually means Enyalios might have made things too easy...

This requires a Toon on Freedom.

Anyone wanna give the the Cole's Notes version, instead?

Edit - Not the Emperor kind.

Now that you're getting into IO's, spend some time here on this forum, and read the multiple threads and guides about how non-farmers can go from zero INF to over a billion in a WEEK, crafting and selling for 15 or 20 minutes a day.

After you've made your first billion, you'll quickly realize that the only people who are buying INF from "gold farmers" are basically idiots who DESERVE to get caught and banned.

I was going to try and say something slightly more graceful, but this just about covers the "Why to market" lesson.

For every million inf someone beats out of critters, "the market" (all of us) buys ten million inf worth of stuff. You spend 1 million, lose 10% in fees, 90% goes to the next person. Next person spends 900K, loses 10% in fees, the next next person spends 810K and so on.

So when someone says "Oh, I just need to go out there and farm 50 million to get my shiny" what they're really doing is adding 500 million inf to the economy.

This is one of the reasons the Crazy 88s are marketing our faces off and burning the influence by turning it into prestige. We're fighting inflation. (Other reasons include the expression on people's faces when they understand that we have destroyed over 100 billion inf for nearly no reason. )

There's almost nothing to remove inf from the economy. Prestige (and who needs more than a couple million prestige), costume changes (and who pays for costume changes?), crafting costs (500K on something that cost you 100 million inf), and Mr. Wentworth's cut.

This is the interwebz. How can you see their faces?

Hmmm. My calling stupid people who have more money than brains (and who willfully violate the EULA and TOS) "idiots" wasn't graceful? Darn -- I'll work harder on that next time, maybe.

And we DO need more influence sinks in this game to fight inflation. I'm still not sure why they took out the nominal charge to speak to a Hero Corps rep and change mission difficulties, but that was one change they probably never should have implemented. While I can't prove it, I really don't think any of the designers/developers have a very firm grasp of how things work in the closed ecosystem of the CoX economy, and wish a couple of them would read this forum regularly and perhaps learn from the knowledge here. (I mean, we all KNOW how the poor villains have suffered now that the markets are merged, right? )

...and I pay for costume changes! I'm consistently amused when I log on some of my older characters and see where they're approaching 100 free costume changes, and paying for them takes a little influence out of the closed system.

I just hope they implement some sort of change before rare salvage hits the 2 billion inf ceiling and everything else gets traded off-market -- which is still a LONG way off, obviously, but it looks like a possible outcome with the current "INF gets generated, INF never disappears" model.

Wow, you're old. The most I have is a Blaster and a Dom with 36-37.


I remember bad old days where I couldn't afford this or costume changes. I didn't like that. These rewards were put in because they were really 'Rewards' at one time. But yes, today I think there is enough money floating around that everyone can afford it. This sink isn't nearly enough to dent the ill gotten proceeds of all you ebil marketers though. New methods need to appear magically.

I believe in Social Security and Welfare for the less wealthy but more deserving heroes like myself. Social justice for all! (starting with me) is my new motto.

I am sure they read this forum regularly, if for nothing else than the laughs. That's why I read it.

Anyway lets take the basic premise that inflation needs to be fought. What makes anyone think that ? Are your heroes saving up for retirement ? Looking to put your kids through college ? Does it discourage your investment in capital intensive enterprises ?

Inflation in this game means, that people sitting on inf have to get more of it to maintain their purchasing power. Big deal. It also means that its very much easier for new players to make money and afford their starter and mid range builds. The top end stuff becomes more expensive in inf but is still just as obtainable through effort. Looking at things from the point of the developers that's a win/win.


Second the game has an ever increasing inf removal tool. Wentworths takes 10% off the top of every transaction. Prices double twice as much inf is removed from the system. They triple three times as much. At some point there will be an equilibrium between the rate of inf creation and the rate of inf destruction. At a guess the devs weren't worried about it when they decided to double the rate that 50s generate inf.

I had 3 billion-ish inf go missing after the last patch. On the off chance they can't/won't fix it, I hit my favorite MA farm this morning.

Capped the map in 10 minutes, rolled 'em all bronze 34-39, got 4 Reactive Armors that insta-sold for 100m, didn't even have to craft them. And that left 10 or so recipes that I could sell for 1-5m as is or craft and sell for 2-30m each.

Not to mention the bids I threw out on a couple of particularly lucrative recipes revealed during my researching, of the 'craft for 2m sell for 20' variety.

the inf is out there, just lying around on the ground. Anyone who cares to can fill up their bucket in no time.

I've lost a couple billion from emails with attachments being lost before and always had the stuff replaced. Lost 2B myself this time and expect I'll get it back...though it seems like slower response time so maybe they hit more people this time. Sorry to hear you lost inf too, Goat. However, I probably helped keep up demand for the Reactive Armors....I didn't buy any for 100M, but I had alot of bids out on those things and actually slotted them all so I wasn't in competition. NG is right though there is inf laying around to be had with minimal knowledge. Ameriting for Kin Combats is stupidly profitable at the moment.

Happy Marketeering

And YOU provide many of the lulz here, too -- but I'm not entirely sure you do it on purpose. But regardless of the intent, thanks for the result! And you've obviously been around the forums long enough to have been here for Positron's excuse why they couldn't merge the markets. Do you remember it? Did you recognize my remark as a not-so-thinly-veiled stab at it? Apparently not.

Well, you proved you can highlight in red -- have a cookie.

While you were busy with that, though, here's the part you must not quite have comprehended or you wouldn't be asking about: "I just hope they implement some sort of change before rare salvage hits the 2 billion inf ceiling and everything else gets traded off-market" -- which may be an extreme example, of course, but I'm NOT the only person thinking it around here. Or did you miss the "Influence Destruction Project" and the Crazy 88's project to destroy influence while buying their way to the top of the SG list? The #1 SG seems to be a pleasant side effect, while the PURPOSE started with Fulmen's destruction of influence via charitable donations to other SG's.

I'll agree with you on the first part -- everybody CAN sell their drops at WW's and buy SO's at level 22, even though not every new player has figured it out yet. Once they start buying IO recipes, though, the new players get sticker shock AND START THREADS LIKE THIS!

As I said, I'm just concerned that with the economy left unchecked, some of the more desirable rare recipes will be trading up around 2 billion mark as well down the road. Want to buy a Numina's proc or a LotG 7.5? Oops -- time to hit the forums and put a bid up there, since they're all at the market cap.

Which a lot of people are saying isn't enough, as evidenced by some other threads.

I'm not even sure those are coherent sentences, and I still can't quite decipher them. I THINK you're saying that WW's is taking bigger chunks of INF as prices rise; I'm saying that the rate of INF creation is currently higher than the rate of INF destruction.

From what I've read here, they didn't "decide to double the rate that 50s generate" -- it was my understanding that they FIXED A BUG that had been halving the drop rates for 50s and unintentionally bumping the INF creation level.

However, the very LACK OF an equilibrium point between INF creation and INF destruction is exactly my point. If you can PROVE where that lays I'm sure many of us will be glad to see it, though.

In the meantime, enjoy your highlighter!

Just how clueless are you ? Or are you trying to say the developers should read these forums for tips on how to make more plausible lies ?

Here lets look at what happened.

While (devs think dialogue is possible) Do
begin
1. Market forum to developers => merge the markets
2. Devs => to market forum its not a problem and not on the calendar
end
3. Make excuse so you don't have to listen to the idiots anymore



Here it is in tiny tiny words for you.

Prices are proportional to the ratio of the amount of inf in the game to the amount of available items in the game. The more available inf/available goods the higher prices can go.

The higher prices go, the more inf is removed from the system

At some overall price point the rate of inf generation is equaled or exceeded by the rate of inf removal

At that point prices stabilize or start to decline.

And here is the kicker

It really doesn't matter how high market prices go because you can always buy it with tickets or merits. The only people ever put out by inflation are those sitting on large piles of inf that want to quickly IO their toons using the market.


Or earn two of the new merits ?

Or do you mean you should be entitled to buy the good gear in the game just because you play the market game well ?

It seems the devs were listening to people about changes that needed to be made about how the game works. They just rejected the viewpoint you are pushing.


Edit:Red removal was generation

Amerits guarantee this will never happen.

Okay -- THESE tiny words, arranged in a different order, have in fact finally penetrated my apparently thick skull. Finally. So thank you!

However:
With you so far, with you on the second line and huh? The third line seems circular, and I'm guessing and hoping a typo. Should it read "...exceeded by the rate of inf destruction" instead?

If so, I DO indeed get it now. If it's correct as it stands, and thus circular, then I'll admit to still being a bit fuzzy.

If you PvPd it might be enough to get me back in the arena >.>

I think its already proven that the market fees actually add more then they remove, due in part to the money changing hands. In order to remove say, 1 billion inf from the markets, when starting at 2 billion, you have to have it trade hands a large amount of times. To remove the first 200 million is pretty easy, but then you have .8 billion to remove, and the most you can cut off is 180 million, and you've already traded it twice.

3rd trade 1.62billion
4th trade 1.458billion
5th trade 1.3122billion
6th trade 1.18098billion
7th trade 1.062882billion
8th trade .9565938billion

So, in order to turn 2 billion into 1 billion from just market fees itself, it'll take you 8 trades. which is a VERY long time, and all that money is just flowing around in the market in the mean time, trading hands all that time.

Market fees is a very slow way to burn off inf, and its being produced A LOT faster then the markets burn it. Heck, I'm willing to bet inf is being produced faster then even the Crazy 88s are burning it, and that's without a massive AE exploit going on to fuel the fire.

That's only true if you assume that money would never change hands without market fees. If there weren't market fees then virtually no inf would leave the system. Market fees effectively set a cap on the number of times a single inf passes through the market at 10. So for every inf farmed up people will buy 10inf worth of goods at WW (actually slightly less due to other inf sinks but close enough to 10 for our purposes). Without the fee every inf farmed up would allow people to buy infinity worth of good at WWs (ok, sooner or later it would be removed by other means but it could easily go through the market hundreds of thousands of times before that)