what part of ultra rare do you not get? the game is not balanced around io's. it is balanced around so's. just because you see prices as unfair does not mean they are. of course, you show no understanding of how an auction house actuall works, instead you choose to use it as a store.
there are multiple ways to get what you want in this game. use them. if you see those high prices, turn around and sell for them. of course you will probably try to list what you have at the price you see instead of listing at a reasonable price so that your goods sell. this is what goes on daily. people listing at reasonable prices and BUYERS paying what they want for the item. all it takes is 1 BUYER to buy something at an IWANTITNAO price and other buyers will follow because that is what they think it is going for.
again, i say sit down, stfu and read, learn and understand what is being told to you by those who have the wealth of knowledge about the markets that you show you have none of.
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My point is the devs already HAVE that tool, they are called Alignment Merits. Alignment Merits are limited in supply to prevent farming and can't be traded to prevent Marketeers. If they wanted to decrease the market prices of these items they wouldn't need to add an inf store for them they would simply need to lower the Alignment Merit cost.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Okay, I said the Devs need to set their own "Buy It Now" recipe prices on te market to forestall market Griefing. My suggested rates are 250 mil for Purps, 500 mil for PvPs. This is to basically give a tool to the Devs to geek Farmers and Market Manipulators and empower the average gamer I believe the Devs should be targteing to increase game attractiveness.
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In fact adding an Inf store would HELP Farmers and Marketeers a lot more than the players you claim to champion. What is the resource both Farmers and Marketeers can easily generate in huge quantities? Inf.
Conversely Alignment Merits favor the non-Farmers and non-Marketeers. Farmers can't generate them significantly faster than non-Farmers and Marketeers can't get them at all through the market. If the devs really wanted to increase the availability of high end recipes adding an inf store would simply aid Farmers and marketeers, lowering the alignment merit prices would aid the mythical casual player.
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| Wouldnt it be nice to have a very active game with lotsa newbs getting 50s and having lotsa Purps? YES. Especially if they did it through normal content. |
BC, while you are not the only badger, you're one of the few I know who finds it that interesting.
I play to explore stories and develop characters. If I can't develop my characters, it's not much fun anymore. So if I finished one, I'd probably rarely play that character again -- it'd be over.
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So 'about an hour' is constant effort?|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I do the 5 tip missions very regularly. It usually takes me about an hour, slightly more.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Am I also doing this wrong?
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I wanna learn to be just like you.
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A "nice active game" and "lotsa newbs with 50s and purps" do not necessarily have to go hand in hand. And no, many, many people would disagree that this would be a good thing. Many people oppose the notion of making it extremely easy to get to 50. (Nearly every time the game has explicitly been made easier there were very vocal complaints about it being unnecessary.) Concentrating everyone at 50 makes the earlier levels into no-mans-lands where no one wants to be.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Wouldnt it be nice to have a very active game with lotsa newbs getting 50s and having lotsa Purps? YES. Especially if they did it through normal content.
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Moreover, if everyone had purple IO sets at easy access, this implies they would of course have other IO sets as well. If IOs were that readily available, then the devs would feel compelled to rebalance the baseline difficulty of the game. Today, they can balance it around SOs because IOs are rare enough to gain that a minority of players make heavy use of them.
This is by design - the increased power they offer act as a carrot for the players with the personality to chase them. That carrot keeps them on the treadmill, and keeps them paying long-term subscriptions. Keeping it relatively hard to achieve keeps a limited number of people from doing it, and thus shifting the overall balance of the entire game.
I keep playing this game because it takes me time to get stuff. If I had everything I would have gotten bored and unsubbed a long time ago. I prefer to lavish on a limited number of favorite characters. Back before we could do that, I parked them and stopped playing them. Now I can keep them active and pursue their ongoing growth beyond just level 50, and for a couple of years before we got the promise of Incarnates.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I always speedread content before goig back for detail.
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
again, i say sit down, stfu
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this post is good, rich content. So much so I cannot easily respond to all of it without a wall of text. Especially the cookie about concentrating everyone at 50. For better or worse ( as I said, I have solo'd all content mult times ) It just makes economic sense for me now to run mostly 50s, or I cannot get the cash I need. Also, i19 will only exascerbate this situation.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
A "nice active game" and "lotsa newbs with 50s and purps" do not necessarily have to go hand in hand. And no, many, many people would disagree that this would be a good thing. Many people oppose the notion of making it extremely easy to get to 50. (Nearly every time the game has explicitly been made easier there were very vocal complaints about it being unnecessary.) Concentrating everyone at 50 makes the earlier levels into no-mans-lands where no one wants to be.
Moreover, if everyone had purple IO sets at easy access, this implies they would of course have other IO sets as well. If IOs were that readily available, then the devs would feel compelled to rebalance the baseline difficulty of the game. Today, they can balance it around SOs because IOs are rare enough to gain that a minority of players make heavy use of them. This is by design - the increased power they offer act as a carrot for the players with the personality to chase them. That carrot keeps them on the treadmill, and keeps them paying long-term subscriptions. Keeping it relatively hard to achieve keeps a limited number of people from doing it, and thus shifting the overall balance of the entire game. I keep playing this game because it takes me time to get stuff. If I had everything I would have gotten bored and unsubbed a long time ago. I prefer to lavish on a limited number of favorite characters. Back before we could do that, I parked them and stopped playing them. Now I can keep them active and pursue their ongoing growth beyond just level 50, and for a couple of years before we got the promise of Incarnates. |
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that's your problem, you speed read to see if it is anything you want to read to see if it supports your idea. try reading the whole thing from top to bottom all at once rather then skimming it.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I always speedread content before goig back for detail.
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What I am wondering, is did the devs actually intend for the PVP IOs to be rarer than purps... They are orange... SO, this is why I wonder. I know they are rare because PVP is not as populated, but because of the orange color, I would think that they are not really supposed to be as hard to get as purps, but because of supply that is why they are more rare.
Would it not make sense for say the Heros in RV to drop PVPs and maybe add monsters equal to heroes into each PVP zone to drop these recipies. I think that would help the supply some.
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they priced them about 50% higher than purps. Purpls run about 20 A Merits and PvPIOs run around 30 AMerits
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Originally Posted by Pimpstress_Bambi
What I am wondering, is did the devs actually intend for the PVP IOs to be rarer than purps...
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It's a good question, but I think the A-Merit costs are our answer from the devs.
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Originally Posted by Pimpstress_Bambi
What I am wondering, is did the devs actually intend for the PVP IOs to be rarer than purps... They are orange... SO, this is why I wonder. I know they are rare because PVP is not as populated, but because of the orange color, I would think that they are not really supposed to be as hard to get as purps, but because of supply that is why they are more rare.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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If you had asked me that when PvPIOs first came out I would have told you "I doubt it". However when they released A-Merits they set the price 50% higher than purples which seems to imply that they want them to be rarer, especially when you consider that significantly more player time is spent on activities that earn purples than activities that earn PvPIOs so the non-AMerit generation rate of purples is almost certainly a lot higher than the rate of PvPIOs.
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Originally Posted by Pimpstress_Bambi
What I am wondering, is did the devs actually intend for the PVP IOs to be rarer than purps... They are orange... SO, this is why I wonder. I know they are rare because PVP is not as populated, but because of the orange color, I would think that they are not really supposed to be as hard to get as purps, but because of supply that is why they are more rare.
Would it not make sense for say the Heros in RV to drop PVPs and maybe add monsters equal to heroes into each PVP zone to drop these recipies. I think that would help the supply some. |
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
We are not going to deal with the real world economy here. This is a game system economy meant to increase the enjoyment of average gamers. Yes, I keep using the word average, I know I do high level content, please refrain from pointing it out.
As far as why the amounts here are wrong, 2 Billion + per enhancer in this game economy is stupid, IMO. It tells the average gamer they will never get it. Or, under the new system, spend about 2 + months constant effort to get that one I/O, then still need 5 more of the set. For ONE enhancement set, still needing 8-10 more sets for the character to be finished. A little discouraging? A LOT discouraging. Discouraging is bad for a video game. Period. It is stupid to discourage paying customers, therefore, the price is stupid. The Devs need to look at classic conle games like Armored Core, which had diminishing returns for unlockable content, took a long time to master/complte (not YEARS) and was total fun. Why would not finishing a character end the game? 36 slots per server........ |
Which set has more than 1 or 2 enhancers selling over the 2B mark? Do you even research these things in advance? You've been offered significant suggestions more than once on how to acquire the items you desire (of which only a couple are truely over 2B) and continued to ignore them.
When presented with in-game examples you've called on real world examples....when those are presented you've said to stay within the game. I thought you were a genuine person with a genuine concern at one point, but I'm assuming at this point you aren't really.
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I think the devs would rather have us PvP for IOs versus trying to buy them.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
It's a good question, but I think the A-Merit costs are our answer from the devs.
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Yes I have an alt I specifically designed to do tips quickly. I play an ITF each night to get 3 tips. The following morning I do those tips (almost always popping 2 more tips doing the 3) and 2 more. Usually we're talking 18-30 mins....unless I get a phone call or something. You want to know something? The alt doesn't have a single set which costs more than 100M for the whole set slotted. I think the coolest things I have slotted are the numina and miracle uniques. You really don't need 2B IOs to do impressive things in this game, it just makes them a little easier.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I do the 5 tip missions very regularly. It usually takes me about an hour, slightly more. Am I also doing this wrong? You can get a tip in 1 minute, load door and finish mish in 3 minutes (getting next tip in mish), get to/load door/finish mish/unload in 5 min, also getting tip for next, repeat 3 more times for twenty minutes total? WOW You are soooooooooo cool. I wanna learn to be just like you.
Anybody else do 5 tips + 5 tip missions in twenty minutes every night, then blast out the Morality, let me guess, in 4 minutes more? |
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Some badges are more interesting than others. For example I hated having to hunt Nerva for the blueside family misplaced there somehow for that badge on redside before it was altered. That said, badges, like high-end IOs, are just something to keep people playing and maximize the profits of NCSoft's shareholders at the end of the day.
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Originally Posted by seebs
BC, while you are not the only badger, you're one of the few I know who finds it that interesting.
I play to explore stories and develop characters. If I can't develop my characters, it's not much fun anymore. So if I finished one, I'd probably rarely play that character again -- it'd be over. |
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This is not an anomaly.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Or your buyer had a typo moment. Or the market interface geeked him and he was trying to buy something else. Lets look for serious patterns and discuss those, not anomalies.
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I sell 99% of all my drops and crafted IOs for 11 inf. Even the ones that appear to go for hundreds of millions.
While I put them up for 11, I earn hundreds of millions of inf.
You simply refuse to accept the fact that buyers set the prices.
You refuse to accept the fact that in an MMO there are things that not every player is going to get due to the time/energy/money needed to attain them.
You refuse accept the fact that if your premise was correct about the prices turning away players, there would not be thousands of subscribers enjoying the game.
The nature of an MMO is that rare items must be earned, one way or another and are not handed out simply because a player has paid for game time. Until you accept this basic premise, it looks to me that you will never be happy with any in-game economy in any MMO.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
There has been a near constant refrain of "Buyers set the prices" Okay. Log onto every alt you got, everybody. Bid 100 influence for every PvP I/O. Every buyer is bidding 100 for every PvP I/O. Somebody tell me when the 1st purchase happens and when all the prices are at 100. Thanks.
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The prices will be at 100 when all buyers bid only 100. Try putting things up for sale @ 100 and see if you get 100 or if you get more than that.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
There has been a near constant refrain of "Buyers set the prices" Okay. Log onto every alt you got, everybody. Bid 100 influence for every PvP I/O. Every buyer is bidding 100 for every PvP I/O. Somebody tell me when the 1st purchase happens and when all the prices are at 100. Thanks.
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Someone is willing to pay 2 billion for an IO, therefore the buyer sets the price.
Just because everyone won't pay a certain price, does not mean the buyers do not set the prices.
If there is someone willing to pay a certain price, then the price is set. Just because YOU won't pay that price does not mean another buyer won't.
Why is that so hard for you to grasp?
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
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By making a bid of 100 inf you have set the price you are willign to pay for the IO. However, we have a free market with limited supply which means all of the people who want something specify how much they are willing to pay and the person willing to pay the most gets it and pays his bid. You can put a bid for 100 inf up and set your price point but your bid will not fill until everyone else who wants one and is willing to pay more than 100 inf has gotten theirs.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
There has been a near constant refrain of "Buyers set the prices" Okay. Log onto every alt you got, everybody. Bid 100 influence for every PvP I/O. Every buyer is bidding 100 for every PvP I/O. Somebody tell me when the 1st purchase happens and when all the prices are at 100. Thanks.
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Sellers generally want to sell for as much as possible but (are you listening closely? this bit is important) they cannot make a sale unless the buyer is willing to pay that much. Almost everyone here can tell you stories of times when they misjudged how much the market would bear and had items that didn't sell forcing them to pull the items and relist them, eating the market listing fee in the process. The devs set the market up this way for a very good reason, it's not profitable to list items for more than you can reasonably expect to get for them. If you do then either you get a bunch of inventory clogging your market slots (and thus preventing you from selling other things) or you end up relisting it which cuts into your profits (in some cases substantially).
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This is a non-argument until you can get EVERY player to participate. At which point... Buyers will indeed set the price at 100 inf, and at that price, there will be no sellers. If you set the price too low, you get no sellers. But hey -- you set the price.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
There has been a near constant refrain of "Buyers set the prices" Okay. Log onto every alt you got, everybody. Bid 100 influence for every PvP I/O. Every buyer is bidding 100 for every PvP I/O. Somebody tell me when the 1st purchase happens and when all the prices are at 100. Thanks.
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A while back, I wanted a scientific theory. I was in a hurry, and bored, so I bid crept up to about 175k. There were 1800 up, none of them under 175k.
So I bid 12,345. And I waited five minutes. And I got a scientific theory for 12k, even though there were none for sale under 175k.
I was the buyer. I set the price. I got the price I set.
This is like watching a room full of mechanics carefully and clearly explaining internal combustion to a plate of onion rings.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
But onion rings are delicious.
And I would not be much interested in the ghost town of people who AE farm to 50, get all their purples, and never play that character again because there's nothing left to do. I like the game now, where people can still have reason to play and improve a character years after starting, and progress means something.