Inherent Fitness

i think his idea is that all AT's, no matter what they are, should be strictly damage dealers and forget their actual primary roles. and it shouldn't cost any end to deal damage, at all, cause it isn't fun.

I realize this won't be a popular reply but....

A few years ago when I first stated playing this excellent game I found it to be a fun challenge.

Then the AE came along as well as the invention system. The auction houses got added. The game didn't change in response to our increase in power. Basically our characters were given training wheels in the game. Fun to use training wheels, but training wheels nonetheless.

Now with Fitness becoming automatic and nearly every character getting three more power slots to add on because of it we are getting training wheels for our training wheels.

As it is now a trained monkey can get to 50th level in 2 days playing the game. Do we really need it to be even simpler?

This is not to say that we aren't having fun....but seriously? When do we become so coddled by the game that our playing ability starts to be insulted? Do we really need to have our hands held even more than they are?

the change for fitness is basically to help out in the lower levels. and is something that should have been done since the begining. the game is also balanced around so's. io's are not needed to play and are considered "fluff". AE was introduced as a way for people to express their creativity with their own stories. please do not compare your play style/time to others. that is a baseless argument in itself.

Okay, so from what I've seen, in Ultimo_'s opinion:

• Endurance management is not an impossible problem, but merely a large concern for many players. And there are solutions (some of which he and others have mentioned) for making it less of a concern, so that players don't have to worry about their blue bar.

• IO sets that not only offer enhancements that enhance multiple aspects of a power, but global set bonuses.
• IO enhancements that offer bonuses towards these very concerns (such as Luck of the Gambler +7.5% recharge, or Numina's Convalescence +Regen, +Recovery)
• And now, Stamina available to slot at the earliest level that we get slots (3), making even the lower levels easier to continuously play through

sorry if i came across rude mack, i didn't mean to. i was in the heat of the moment between this thread and a few others. my bad.

I need more popcorn...

This change wasn't introduced as a veteran reward or some form of high level reward.

As such I believe this change isn't for veterans at all but instead is for the benefit of new players. The new character experience is dramatically different for veteran players who have the advantage of inf and knowledge to mitigate many of the frustrating problems that a new player will face during the starting levels.

'Going Rogue' seems to addresses several of the unpleasant issues new players used to face in COX. I believe inherent fitness at level 3 is also a step in this direction. If it helps new players stick with COX then I am for it 110%.

Dev's already said why they couldn't just make the base recovery rate higher.

It F-s up the game balance, making them have to tweak the numbers on all recovery powers to make sure they don't give people too much endurance.

It's not an elegant solution... but it's okay.

Okay, say they DO make it so no one ever has to worry about endurance at any point in the game.

If that happens, what do you do with: Accelerate Metabolism, Speed Boost, Transference, Power Sink, Consume, Dark Consumption, Heat Loss, Heat Exhaustion, Adrenaline Boost, Recovery Aura, Painbringer, Drain Psyche, Superior Conditioning, Conserve Power, Physical Perfection, Energize, Quick Recovery, Energy Absorption, Energy Drain, and a number of other powers that I'm sure I'm forgetting.

Every one of those powers is designed either in whole or in part to alleviate endurance problems. Things like Speed Boost and Adrenaline Boost would still have some use, but the recovery boost facet of those powers would be useless. Things like Recovery Aura and Consume would be completely useless. If no one had to worry about endurance, Recovery Aura would never need to be used, and Consume doesn't dela enough damage to make it a viable attack, so it would become useless as well.

There's also things like: Endurance Reduction enhancements, Endurance Modification enhancements, and blue inspirations. If endurance was never an issue for anyone at any time those 3 things, which have been in existance since the game's inception, would be useless as well.

It is completely intentional that endurance use is something the player needs to get a handle on themselves. If it were not, none of the powers or enhancements I just mentioned would ever have existed in the first place.

In wanting the devs to fix a problem that they gave us the tools to fix ourselves, you're basically saying that you want them to make all your decisions for you. The next step would be to want the game to automatically choose the best power available at each level for you, and slot it with the most optimum enhancements.

When you make decisions such as choosing to slot for end reduction before damage or vice versa, you are taking one of many steps that makes your character YOURS and yours alone. If you want the devs to fix your problems for you, it removes an important part of making your character what YOU want it to be, because a decision that is currently ours to make will have been decided for us.

Inherent Fitness is simply the devs saying "Here you go, now you have a few more options at the lower levels, instead of trying to cram 3 powers in so you can function later". It was nver intended to fix every endurance issue in the game, that's what all those powers I mentioned are for.

Your defender vs. blaster endurance use argument is pretty moot. On teams, which defenders were designed to work better on, they DO get an endurance discount, and have for a long time now. Furthermore, on a team, a defender is not expected to be a primary damage dealer, they are there to support and increase their teammate's damage (even a FF defender increases their team's damage, because dead teammates deal no damage at all). Their lower damage and lower DPE are the price they pay for that ability. The devs threw them a bone when they made both the secondary effects of their blasts and the potency of their buffs and debuffs better than other ATs. If you want the DPE of their blasts to be in line with blasters, they would probably have to give up those advantages.

And since they get a damage bonus while solo or on small teams, it seems the devs already HAVE addressed your DPE concerns.

Personally, I think all argument over the Fitness change is premature (unless you are/were in the beta testing).

I am going to reserve my final judgement until after I19 has gone live and I get the chance to level some new alts that are just sitting around waiting for this opportunity.

The best thing anyone can do, including you ULTIMO_ , is to make a new toon and level them up after the issue goes live. Make sure you choose something that you are fairly sure of how their performance would have been prior to the change and then see how it goes. Because, as I have said before, making fitness inherent is only half of the change you are going to experience levelling to 20. And its not even the most significant half IMHO.

For any new players that come along and join the game after I19, I am most decidedly a "touch" envious. Because I can still remember my first characters back in 2004. always penny-less, running out of endurance every fight, sometimes during the fight. Rest was on what, a 5 min timer. They were gaining slots and powers but without the ability to put anything in the slots. I was still using DOs at level 22 because I couldnt afford SOs. Yeah, I remember the "good ole days" still. We have come a long ways and I will probably have an explosion of alts after I19 because the game will be that much better suited for lowbies than ever before.

My first "main" character at release was a Science Invuln. tank.

All of that untyped Vahz damage hurt like heck.

I still don't know how I got him to 10 without quitting.