Mack Avenger
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Can we just compromise and say that some PnP systems were a bit more user friendly than others?Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Not really. All PnP systems are pretty broken numerically. The thing is, that's not really a bad knock on them. It's only a problem if they become unworkable, and Champions wasn't unworkable. What you want from a good PnP system is flexibility and reasonableness. The GM has to exercise good judgment beyond that. My only gripe with HERO is how it's often held up as an example of how "it should be" like by CoH players in the past or CO players past and present (it was my biggest gripe in CO beta that people who thought the HERO system could form the basis for that game's mechanics were basically retarded). PnP systems are never, ever, EVER good models for computer MMO combat or mechanical systems. Show me an MMO that implements a PnP system, and I guarantee you that either the MMO sucks, or the PnP game it's based on sucks, or possibly both. The requirements for both are almost incompatible.
You are right, you cannot directly port and PnP game into a computer game because nearly all of them are written to require a GM of some sort, even if only to keep the world dynamic. -
Quote:That system was broken because you had to have someone constantly babysit it to keep it from falling apart. That's a textbook example of a broken system. In fact I would go a step further and say that pretty much all of those 80's superhero games were pretty badly designed. Remember having to have an accounting degree for champions? Or at least one to keep from getting ****** in champions? Remember the horrid character generation in Marvel?Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Not really. It's only as broken as the GM allows it to be. You can make the craziest overpowered stuff you can imagine in it, but if the GM says "No, I'm not going to let you do that.", that's the end of it.
It's a good system in and of itself, but there's no way you could translate it to a computer game because a computer can't tell you that some off-the-wall overpowered thing you did isn't allowed. A computer sees that it is possible and allows it, because it has no capacity to make a judgment call on things like that.
The fact that a human is making the decisions of what is and isn't allowed is the balancing factor of the HERO system. Since it's impossible to translate the HERO system to a computer program, using it as an example of balance where a computer game is concerned is just asinine.
True you can abuse pretty much any system but HERO and Champions were two of the worst for being abused. -
I don't think any of these ideas are really pacifists. If anything they would technically be enablers.
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Quote:No worries. Besides how can you not like a guy with a Jaws reference in his name?Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
sorry if i came across rude mack, i didn't mean to. i was in the heat of the moment between this thread and a few others. my bad.
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Quote:Thank you! (tips virtual hat)Originally Posted by HelinCarnate
Finally a reasonable objection.
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Quote:You can't deny that the AE and IO's hasn't made the overall game much easier for us. It has nothing to do with playstyle.Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
the change for fitness is basically to help out in the lower levels. and is something that should have been done since the begining. the game is also balanced around so's. io's are not needed to play and are considered "fluff". AE was introduced as a way for people to express their creativity with their own stories. please do not compare your play style/time to others. that is a baseless argument in itself.
You also can't say that this change will only help out lowbies. In effect a large majority of level 20+ characters in the game will be getting three extra powers from having three power slots devoted to Fitness powers being freed up. That again will be making the game easier for us.
True there are a few rare exceptions but really, who are we kidding?
Even if you try to say that the game isn't easier for you now because you don't use the AE or inventions on your character you would still be wrong. The thing is if you skip getting AE tickets and don't want to use IO's you are still picking up recipes and salvage, which can be sold for money. Lots of money, making our characters richer than they were in the past.....and able to always keep on top of their SO's/DO's/training enhancements. No character has to scrape for inf to buy these enhancements to keep up with the base game difficulty. Before these changes many characters were too broke to be able to keep topping out all of their enhancements! -
I realize this won't be a popular reply but....
A few years ago when I first stated playing this excellent game I found it to be a fun challenge.
Then the AE came along as well as the invention system. The auction houses got added. The game didn't change in response to our increase in power. Basically our characters were given training wheels in the game. Fun to use training wheels, but training wheels nonetheless.
Now with Fitness becoming automatic and nearly every character getting three more power slots to add on because of it we are getting training wheels for our training wheels.
As it is now a trained monkey can get to 50th level in 2 days playing the game. Do we really need it to be even simpler?
This is not to say that we aren't having fun....but seriously? When do we become so coddled by the game that our playing ability starts to be insulted? Do we really need to have our hands held even more than they are?