fix it so we are not forced to pick the t1 power in our secondary

For some of us (won't say all; don't say all) it's not that we want more options or for the same availability as a primary set; we want to be able to skip that first power.

And in half of the cases of powers being skippable, people would take them later anyways. For instance, a toggle armor early game without Stamina - or, even after the change, pre-SO Stamina - isn't going to be as useful as an auto power to some, which doesn't chew the precious endurance up.

In other instances, it's powers that some players can use and others see as a power choice arbitrarily gone: Gale, Force Bolt (Mastermind version of Force Field), Sonic Siphon, Blaster immobilizes, etc.

Hide and Bruising are the only thing this really breaks, but the former may have multiple solutions and the latter isn't exactly the job of the archetype. You can give Tankers taunt for free, and some people probably won't use it because they find their aura to be enough.

All right, what would your ideal experimental conditions be, then?

An open letter to NCsoft

umm lol. i like how some of you try to insult then post dorky stuff right after. read zombie mans posts you may learn something.

Hey, it's more thought than he gave when making the thread.

It's a dumb idea that's unnecessary and would take up resources better spent on i19 and the Incarnate System.

Congratulations on surviving this long before this subject rears its ugly head. Is it on an 18 month cycle now? Still I suppose it beats 'TOTAL RESPEC' and 'VEHICLES'...

Primary powers are the ones that define the role. Secondaries support that role.

Exceptions (such as Shield Charge for Brutes and Scrappers) are useful Secondaries that unlock at later levels: i.e. Drain Psyche.

Primary powers are picked and the first power may be skipped if desired. Brutes benefit from taking their Tier 1 Primary as it helps to keep Fury at a decent level early on AND through their career. Blasters benefit because they have access to Tier 1 and 2 powers when mezzed. Also, the first blast is a handy 'utility' power if a player decides to slot procs such as chance for hold, as it fires off quickly and recharges quickly. Corruptors can benefit as they also have a utility blast and a cheaper way of finishing off mobs, especially when Scourge is in effect.

Secondary-wise, Stalkers get Hide, Tankers get bruising, Blasters get a power they can use whilst mezzed.

The Tier 1 secondary is, admittedly, a mixed bag but still serves as a power. Whether or not you use that power is up to you, but I don't believe there is a compelling argument FOR removing the Tier 1 Secondary as a mandatory power pick. Some Tier 1 Secondaries are useful, others (especially on some support characters) seem less so and it depends on playstyle.

Defender blasts, like Corruptors, Domis, and Blasters, can be used as utility blasts.

Blaster secondaries (the immob ones) are handy early on, especially when damage is high compared to mob resistance. I often respec slots out of the Tier 1 Secondary later on and take it out of my attack chain. Energy Manipulation's Power Thrust, however, is an attack I hang on to. It's awesome, and can be slotted up to be a handy bailing power.

Controller secondaries can be a bit lame - mainly Gale from Storm Summoning - (because Defenders get to skip some of the less obviously useful powers) but again it's just a power that can be ignored if necessary and moved on from. As a character you are not missing out.

So I disagree with the OP - please DO NOT fix it so that we are not forced to pick the t1 power in our secondary.

Just out of curiousity, I decided to look at all 85 "Forced powers" to see how many of them would be considered "marginal" by my standards. Powers which, if the choice to skip were possible, would I skip them? Be advised, these are just MY opinions of a power's worth and I don't mind at all that others view them differently.

So, of the 85 choices, this is what I found.

Blasters: Damage for Web Grenade and Power Thrust are markedly lower than other secondary counterparts, and Only Power Thrust seems to "stand the test of time" in a build. A single target Immob is still useful, just less "fundamental" in the end-game.

Controllers/Corruptors : My previous comments on gale as a possible "marginal" power are all taken back. I love this power and it is plainly obvious that other powersets have it worse off. Gale only suffers from the same issue that plagues the whole "Storm" powerset and that is powers that don't always play nice together.
Sonic Siphon seems a little on the "weak" side for a power and is less usefull as you level because you gain better tools to do the same thing. If the cast time were considerably shorter and maybe recharge faster, then this power could be more of a "staple". Cold Dom's Infrigidate probably could have the same improvement made to it, but it's cast time is perfect at 1 sec. Trick Arrow gets Entangling Arrow. Again, this certainly is not useless, but for the vast majority of choices, it could lose its appeal at higher levels. heck Glue Arrow practically makes it obsolete.

Defenders/Tankers/Dominators : Single target Attacks. Basic survival tools, no issues here other than they do Tier 1 damage. Can we have more damage? Please ? No ??? Ok

Scrappers/Brutes : Willpower, Regen and Invulnerability are the only sets that get forced to take an auto power instead of a Defensive toggle. This would make alot of sense to change. Temp.Inv is a better Tier 1, Mind over Body for Willpower and Regen is a case where Reconstruction would make sense as well. The big question is : Are the Auto powers "optional" ? An argument can be made for each power's necessity. I would still take them, but might wait till later to pick them.

Stalkers : this AT is a special case, and as I mentioned in a previous post, I asked whether it would make more sense to make HIDE an inherent, and move stalkers secondaries back in line with Scrappers/Brutes. Whether or not that makes sense, they still run into the same three powers at level 2 that Scrappers/Brutes did at level 1. So in the case of stalkers, their Tier 2 and 3 powers could stand to be swapped so that TI/MoB/Recon become available at level 2 instead of level 4.

Masterminds : Alkaloid in Poison is the only standout set here. Envenom or Weaken seem to be better suited as Tier 1 powers, and to be honest Weaken seems like it could use the same treatment as Sonic Siphon (make it cast faster and more often).

The only other item of note is the difference between Controllers and Masterminds with regards to Forcefields. Both Force Bolt and PFF would find their way (and have) on any build of mine, but I personally think Force Bolt makes more sense as a Tier 1 power. PFF makes more sense later in the powerset. Forcebolt suffers much in the way some other powers I have mentioned do, which is they can be replaced by powers later in the set, so there is some reasoning to improve the power in some way.

So lets see out of 85 choices of "forced" picks, I found 11 that I would definitely call "out-of-order" : Fast Healing, Alkaloid, Resist Phy Damage, High Pain Tolerance, PFF (controllers). And of these, Only Alkaloid is a power that I would really "hate" being forced to take at level 1. And 9 of the 11 are the same 3 powers for 3 seperate melee ATs. Thats a pretty low percentage of error.

The rest of the powers that I found issue with, were just deemed "weak" or "replaceable" later in one's career. These powers just need to be improved. If you swapped them to another Tier, they would just be "thrown" onto the woodpile of "skippable" choices. So it makes more sense to "fix" them rather than swap them around.

Ugh, didn't see this getting so long

-Bio-

can they sticky this thread plz? i want to be able to come back and read this when i'm feeling down.

I think this is a convenient backup of my point that it's a matter of taste, thus 'penalty' is nonsense even if you could come up with a decent argument why there should be one (and nnobody has).

If I recall correctly, RPD is the lion's share of Invuln's Defense Debuff resistance. Considering that the Defense part of Invuln's mitigation is non-trivial, I'd find it silly to skip it.

allow tier 2 powers as a primary choice in secondary power pools.

I think this is actually a good idea, for several reasons alot of tankers would love to drop their first tier 1 attack, and chose the second one cause it nearly the same recharge time and does better damage.

there would be uses for it, but ti should be an optional thing, cause certain archetypes wont want to miss their first second set power. especially sets which have a limited number attacks (around 3)

but as I said alot of sets could really benefit from it.