Natural basically means powers you're born with (Peacebringer) or you just have special training (Arachnos Soldier). Just because the source isn't native to your home planet or you're not native to ours doesn't mean you cannot be a natural/science/mutant/magic/tech origin. The Rikti themselves could all possibly fit under any of the origins we have in game, different from soldier to soldier. Mutant and Natural are the least likely to fit, since I'm not sure if they're born with psychic powers or not or if the Lost eventually turn into full Rikti. And yes, Magic does apply to a few Rikti. See the Rikti Magus.
Peacebringers are Natural because they're all born with those powers. Warshades are Science because they're scientifically converted Peacebringers. Rularuu is unclear since there's a ton we don't (or at least I don't) know about them. But, however they come about, one or more of the origins no doubt covers them.
What we do need to add are "Psionics". Sister Psyche, after all, claims to be one, so there's some canon grounding for it.
Regardless if Aliens, Psionics, or Cheescakes were added as origins, the Dual Origin enhancements would all need to be reworked simply because just adding x/Science and y/Natural would skewer things in favor of whatever the new origins were mixed with, causing DOs for those origins to drop more while DOs for every other origin drops less. Unless we added three origins and mixed the new ones with each other only (each origin is combined with two others in DOs), though you'd still see drop rates for all specific origins fall, even if DOs drop at the same rate. The same issue would also exist with SOs.
And then the devs would need to go and edit every existing enemy group so they drop proper DO/SOs to include the new origins.
And then they'd have to add stores for all the new origins. And one-shot mission arcs for the new origins for the 30-40 and 40-50 range blueside.
And then they'd need to go through every contact and make sure a "proper" amount sold the new origins instead of what they currently do. And they'd need to update some dialogue to make sure contacts properly mention which origin enhancements are sold.
They'd also need to come up with a new origin temp power for each new origin.
When you really think about it, it's actually quite a lot of work just to add a new origin. While I'd love to see new ones, the amount of work involved will probably keep the devs from ever doing it.
I have a robot that is a Natural origin.
It happened by mistake, I picked the origin and then designed the toon.
Kinetic Flux.
I was level 5 before I noticed that I was running around with a robot touting a Natural origin. So I gave him one.
He comes from a planet of sentient machines. On his world we would be looked at as 'Artificial' He came to this planet searching for one of his kind that was working with the Clockwork King, in an attempt to wipe out humans and populate the world with machines, just like his home planet.
It's his mission to stop this from happening. I even added that he has a holographic projector in his arsenal, so he can blend in with humans better, this gave me ample leeway when making costumes.
I look at it this way, a true Alien could really have any origin. As it's entirely possible they got their powers from a lab accident on their homeworld, or from a mutation, or from training. etc etc.
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I wouldn't say Peacebringers are born with the power because that one in Atlas Park says he's the combination of a cop and a Kheldian Warrior, if I remember correctly. That would make him half alien at least and a totally new species at most. Either way, he's still not Natural. And I do understand you point about being one of the 5 origins even if you're not native to earth. However, this is about giving those whom don't fit in those 5 a sixth option. It was never meant to replace any of them.|
Originally Posted by TwilightPhoenix
Natural basically means powers you're born with (Peacebringer) or you just have special training (Arachnos Soldier). Just because the source isn't native to your home planet or you're not native to ours doesn't mean you cannot be a natural/science/mutant/magic/tech origin. The Rikti themselves could all possibly fit under any of the origins we have in game, different from soldier to soldier. Mutant and Natural are the least likely to fit, since I'm not sure if they're born with psychic powers or not or if the Lost eventually turn into full Rikti. And yes, Magic does apply to a few Rikti. See the Rikti Magus.
Peacebringers are Natural because they're all born with those powers. Warshades are Science because they're scientifically converted Peacebringers. Rularuu is unclear since there's a ton we don't (or at least I don't) know about them. But, however they come about, one or more of the origins no doubt covers them. What we do need to add are "Psionics". Sister Psyche, after all, claims to be one, so there's some canon grounding for it. |
Also, I feel psionics clearly falls under Mutant by the very nature of Mutant's origin description:\; it's an abnormal ability that some people are born with or is triggered by an outside source.
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Any Peacebringer that merges with a human gets those powers. It is natural for that combination. Therefore, yes, it's natural. He has the same powers as Moonfire, as all of the PPD Ascended division (well, they have fewer, generally, but can learn to that point,) and the player run peacebringers. It is 100% natural for a Peacebringer to have those powers. They do not need technology for it. It is not part of a science experiment. It is not a mutation (as the combined being can, yes, be seen as a new race - that is actually the official stance on it) and it's certainly not magic. |
Originally Posted by BlackRhapsody
I wouldn't say Peacebringers are born with the power because that one in Atlas Park says he's the combination of a cop and a Kheldian Warrior, if I remember correctly. That would make him half alien at least and a totally new species at most. Either way, he's still not Natural. And I do understand you point about being one of the 5 origins even if you're not native to earth. However, this is about giving those whom don't fit in those 5 a sixth option. It was never meant to replace any of them.
Also, I feel psionics clearly falls under Mutant by the very nature of Mutant's origin description:\; it's an abnormal ability that some people are born with or is triggered by an outside source. |
There is absolutely no reason for an "alien" origin to be added.
If any Kryptonian came to Earth, they'd have powers similar to Superman. It would be, again, Natural for them.
If there's a robot sent from Mars tearing up Paragon, that could be Tech - or, from the robot's POV, natural. Not alien.
Psionics are not necessarily mutant. I have characters that use technology to enhance and direct "psi" energy. That makes them tech. Or if they undergo some process, science. Or if everyone of their race has it, natural.
Nobody who has brought up an "alien" origin has ever managed to give a good reason why it fits and one of the other five do not. Alien is a description, not an origin.
Edit: And that's not even getting into the work involved in adding an origin - *if one can be added* - to the game.
Alien origin sounds nice. My Zach is alien but his powers are based on technology. I have superior martian technology enviromental suit 
Sad thing is that origins means less and less in this game. It would be nice to be origin based contacts in Atlas who gives missions for levels 1 to 50. Contacts are there but they need some more missions in their lists.
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So taking that example, why would you use "alien" when "tech" fits him to a T? It's like using Japanese origin because your suit's computers were made by Sony.|
Originally Posted by zachary_EU
Alien origin sounds nice. My Zach is alien but his powers are based on technology. I have superior martian technology enviromental suit
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| Sad thing is that origins means less and less in this game. It would be nice to be origin based contacts in Atlas who gives missions for levels 1 to 50. Contacts are there but they need some more missions in their lists. |
I would love to see an alien origin, and perhaps a few Alien Costumes/Body Types. A classic Grey maybe or a Reptilian who needs minimal clothing with perhaps some belts or such. The Superman or Starfire type. (Starfire can ALMOST be done). . .
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Then give a good argument for it. |
Originally Posted by Remaugen
I would love to see an alien origin
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Costumes, sure. But there's no reason for it to be an origin. Especially with the work that would be involved to bring it about.
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Everyone and every concept fits into at least one of the 5 origins. Theres no need to duplicate them with different names.
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Originally Posted by BlackRhapsody
However, this is about giving those whom don't fit in those 5 a sixth option.
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I would go out on a limb and say that you'd be hard pressed to find characters who can only ever fit into one. Our origins are so broadly defined most fit at least two or three. Not only do we not need more, but it's often hard to pick among what we already have.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Everyone and every concept fits into at least one of the 5 origins. Theres no need to duplicate them with different names.
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In fact, you guys and your talk of Natual Robots (a concept I've considered before, but never seriously) have given me a good idea for a future concept come I19. Thanks
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I certainly wouldn't mind having dual or multi-origins, even if all of them beyond the first were simply cosmetic. Aka, make the player choose a "main" origin for purposes of enhancements, origin temp powers, etc. The rest only affect text in profiles, dialogue characters use (such as in the Origin of Power arcs), and the origin icon. I have a few characters who'd make more sense as dual origin characters. For example, a BS/SR Scrapper who has rigid training and natural talent at using a weapon and being evasive, but has also undergone biological and cybernetic enhancements. Both Science and Natural work for him (have him as Science). Or a Rad/Sonic Defender who was originally a Magic Emp/Psi Defender-in-training, but miscasted a spell that caused her to mutate her physically, mentally, and magically. She's still using magic, just altered magic. Mutant or Magic origin? Currently have the former, but the latter would work well too.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I would go out on a limb and say that you'd be hard pressed to find characters who can only ever fit into one. Our origins are so broadly defined most fit at least two or three. Not only do we not need more, but it's often hard to pick among what we already have.
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I wouldn't call it "Alien" origin, because it triggers the splitting of hairs as to what is or isn't "Alien". Lets call it "Cosmic" origin which better denotes of this universe, but not of this world. Kheldians fit the bill as a group and I would like to see more groups like this and with it more stories based on "Cosmic" origins.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
I just don't see the need for it myself, any of our existing origins can easily cover aliens. Natural has been stated by the Devs to include characters like Superman, the Martian Manhunter and others.
It'd throw off the balance of the 5 origin system, require reworking of the Dual Origins and creation of a new set of Single Origin Enhancements, stores to put them in, new contacts in GC/AP, UI changes and changes to the Origin of Power Storylines and any story arc where they have Origin based decisions.
Which is a lot of work really for something that I personally don't feel is needed, compared to what could be done for story/UI/gameworld changes.
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Natural is actually in game as the description for alien species that are naturally like this:|
Originally Posted by Zortel
I just don't see the need for it myself, any of our existing origins can easily cover aliens. Natural has been stated by the Devs to include characters like Superman, the Martian Manhunter and others.
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| You aren't 'super' at all; your amazing talents come from intense training and innate abilities. You might have been driven to physical excellence by some all-encompassing desire for perfection or revenge, or perhaps you are not human at all, and possess powers natural to your race. With your natural origin you have to rely on your cunning and skill. This origin will give you access to throwing knives. This attack has a very short range and deals minor Lethal damage, as well as inflicting additional Damage over Time. |
Everything I could have said was already said.
No thank you, there's no need for it at all. Alien = Natural
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I would accept that, if it wasn't for the fact that the Natural Alien race part is completely ignored at stores and contacts.
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Originally Posted by Diggis
Natural is actually in game as the description for alien species that are naturally like this:
Aliens! |
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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What would be the gameplay benefit of such an origin?
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Originally Posted by BlackRhapsody
What do you guys think of this idea?
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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This.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
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Costumes, sure. But there's no reason for it to be an origin. Especially with the work that would be involved to bring it about. |
The five Origins we have are fundamentally generic on purpose.
They are vague enough that basically any character can be defined at least by one of them.
Once you start opening the door to defining more "specific" Origin types (like Alien) then there's really no end to it and there'd be no clear cut place to stop defining more specific sub-categories to make everyone happy. The only two ways you can do an Origin system is to keep it very generic (like CoH does) or allow thousands of specific sub-categories. Since this game will never be able to support the "infinite Origin" approach it's better off sticking with the current organization we have.
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"Alien" is too subjective. Natural covers it.
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Besides, apart from the origin power and which enhancements we can use what difference does our origin even make in the game?
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Edit: And that's not even getting into the work involved in adding an origin - *if one can be added* - to the game.
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total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Umm, origin is completly ignored at all stores. The only difference is what the sell. Go to a tech store, by tech enhancements. They don't compliment you on your great power armour. I'm not sure what you are wanting here. They don't refer to you as a human do they?
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Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
I would accept that, if it wasn't for the fact that the Natural Alien race part is completely ignored at stores and contacts.
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If you pick Science you spend the first 6 levels of your primal heroic existence being thrown up on and eaten by zombies (until you decide "screw this and do a sewer run instead, and then the entire team gets eaten by zombies).|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
Besides, apart from the origin power and which enhancements we can use what difference does our origin even make in the game?
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| They don't compliment you on your great power armour |
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I think he means that the SO and DO names have very little to do with being of an alien heritage. The names for the Natural SOs, for instance, all revolve around training techniques.
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Originally Posted by Diggis
Umm, origin is completly ignored at all stores. The only difference is what the sell. Go to a tech store, by tech enhancements. They don't compliment you on your great power armour. I'm not sure what you are wanting here. They don't refer to you as a human do they?
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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Sam, I know you want to, and it's proper for this thread, so please do =P
The way I see it is like this: Superman has powers because he is an alien. Now I know many of you would claim that his origin is Natural because all of his species (and some that are related) would have the same powers if they came within the light of a yellow sun. I would almost agree with that. The reason I don't is because yellow stars are "alien" to his species. I will admit that I don't know much about Superman's origin as the only DC series' I've follow are the Lanterns and that started slightly before Blackest Night. Still, it seems that if Superman were on Krypton, the original Krypton, he would be as normal as you and I. To further back up my theory, it's like Bill said in Kill Bill. Clark Kent is Superman's disguise, not the other way around. He's a hero pretending to be normal while other heroes are start out normal first and then put costumes on to portray their heroic side. That shows that he was never normal so Natural doesn't fit him.
As for how this relates to City of Heroes, we have Khledians everywhere, not to mention Rikti making what seems like hourly raids on Paragon City. The Rikti even have an alien mothership and a zone completely dedicated to it, not to mention an army whose sole purpose is to oppose them. And don't even get me started on every-"thing" that lives in Firebase Zulu. Aliens are in the game and their presence is very obvious. They should have their own origin.
An Alien origin would cover all beings that are foreign not only to the planet but to those that come from other dimensions. For Dual Origin enhancements, it could be mixed with Science and Technology; the two origins that are closest to it. For a starting power, toons could have an alien symbiote attached to their wrist that fires some sort of energy blast.
What do you guys think of this idea?