Pool (plus Ancillary & Patron) Power Customization (Yes and EATs as well)
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-10-14 11:48 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I'm gonna agree with this.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
That's my take.
And I'm sorry when I said it I deflated BAB's pride in what he had done, which was truly outstanding. But to wait more than one Issue for the Pools to be customized means that Power Customization is, IMO, a failure. What good is it if I can turn my red primary powers green and my blue secondary powers green but can't turn my overwhelming Speed Pool powers from that hideous yellow to my thematic green? More people take the Power Pools than any Primary or Secondary and thus, in a way, they become even more Primary. Or they should be prioritized as such. Until Pool Powers are customizable, what has been done is a unfinished job. And if there was a definite timetable, I could be patient. But because it's unfinished with no definite plan to be finished... sorry to say it... it's just unprofessional. |
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
Give us APP and Power Pool custom NAO!!
It's a 9 for me. I've got a Scrapper who might benefit from Hasten, but I'm not taking it until I can color it blue. The Defender in my signature is Magic, and if she could swap out the Medicine tricorder for something less tech, she would in a heartbeat.
So, yes, I really want this. There's not a lot that I'd put ahead of it, not even the Incarnate system. Power Customization as it is, is really nice, but it's only half-done. The pools need to be customizable as well.
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At the expense of all the kinds of things I see in Issue 19 (and whatever is in 20) I'd say a solid:
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Then again folks know how I feel about prioritizing graphics and "make it look pretty" over continuing story content and the endgame system.
If they can do a bit of power cust (such as animation cust) while still adding story content, fine. But not at the expense of the rest of the game.
As an aside I'd rather they focus on improving pvp (at least get rid of HD, TS, and some of DR) AND BASES BEFORE they touched pool customization. Those groups of players have been waiting for AGES for their part of the game to get some attention.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Well, I think we can get both. Some Incarnate stuff (1-2 levels per Issue), more power customization, and bits of QoL improvements.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
At the expense of all the kinds of things I see in Issue 19 (and whatever is in 20) I'd say a solid:
0 Then again folks know how I feel about prioritizing graphics and "make it look pretty" over continuing story content and the endgame system. If they can do a bit of power cust (such as animation cust) while still adding story content, fine. But not at the expense of the rest of the game. |
They never focus on just one thing.
I gotta say I rather see Power Pool and APP customization before we get more alternate animations. I got used to animations, and I would love to get new ones, but power pools looks awful, people complains against Speed and Medicine pools since forever. I think power pools deserve some love NAO.
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Personally I'd love to see alternate animations for every power.|
Originally Posted by Angelxman81
Well, I think we can get both. Some Incarnate stuff (1-2 levels per Issue), more power customization, and bits of QoL improvements.
They never focus on just one thing. I gotta say I rather see Power Pool and APP customization before we get more alternate animations. I got used to animations, and I would love to get new ones, but power pools looks awful, people complains against Speed and Medicine pools since forever. I think power pools deserve some love NAO. |
And correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the complaint about medicine the tricorder? Replacing that would mean an ALTERNATE ANIMATION and not a colorization option, no?
Unlike Hasten which can be given a recolor or a "no effect" color for it.
I'd also like to see mm pet cust.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Yep, gotta agree with this. I understood at the time that timing pressures meant that everything couldn't be done, but the fact that the process wasn't continued to cover all the other powers people can choose is pretty bad.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
That's my take.
And I'm sorry when I said it I deflated BAB's pride in what he had done, which was truly outstanding. But to wait more than one Issue for the Pools to be customized means that Power Customization is, IMO, a failure. What good is it if I can turn my red primary powers green and my blue secondary powers green but can't turn my overwhelming Speed Pool powers from that hideous yellow to my thematic green? More people take the Power Pools than any Primary or Secondary and thus, in a way, they become even more Primary. Or they should be prioritized as such. Until Pool Powers are customizable, what has been done is a unfinished job. And if there was a definite timetable, I could be patient. But because it's unfinished with no definite plan to be finished... sorry to say it... it's just unprofessional. |
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Yes, I meant I rather power pools customization before more alternate animations like we getting for I19 for already customizable powers, tintable blast or fx or weapon customization.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
And correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the complaint about medicine the tricorder? Replacing that would mean an ALTERNATE ANIMATION and not a colorization option, no?
Unlike Hasten which can be given a recolor or a "no effect" color for it. I'd also like to see mm pet cust. |
Those sets are already customizable. Power pools not, and those are needed powers to build a lvl 50, we dont have that many power options from primary and secondary to have a lvl 50 without any power pool.
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There is still a lot of content in this game I have never touched. At the moment, I don't need a bunch of new added content; I can wait an issue or two for new content if it means I can get my characters to look right. I'm very visually-focused and have a very hard time "pretending" something doesn't look like it looks.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
What about the game?
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Personally, I think it boils down to a difference in our approach. For me, I didn't come here to play their game. I came here to play my characters. If there's something that prevents my character from clicking aesthetically, why would I continue playing him/her? What's to keep me interested once he/she stops being the character I envisioned and becomes the character I'm forced to live with?|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I guess for me, the looks is nice, but when it's all said and done, this is a game.
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There are plenty of great games out there one could play because of the gameplay itself. But one of the most unique things about this game is the level of customization it offers you to become your own character -- even down to creating your own story/missions if you want. So it's a bit cray-cray that customzation still doesn't include the most ubiquitous powers (the pools) or the highest level powers (the epics/patrons).
d
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This |
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
I'm very visually-focused and have a very hard time "pretending" something doesn't look like it looks.
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"The game" isn't all that good, to be blunt. I can pick any single-player game and get far superior gameplay if that were my thing. But City of Heroes is the only game I'm aware of that has decent gameplay AND the ability to play it with MY characters and not whatever stock choice (if one even exists) that the developers have given me.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Many of you have said that pool customization is extremely important, for some of you, the most important thing they can do. What about the game? What is the use of having pretty and matching blasts if you're dumped into a game that's doesn't get improvements because the coders are spending time trying to get pool customization right and the content designers can't get time on their schedule?
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Give me a choice and I will always pick Darksiders, Soul Reaver, Tomb Raider, Oni and so forth. But much as I like the character designs in those games, they are not mine. I didn't pick them, I didn't make them and, truth be told, I feel I could do better if given the choice. Which I simply am not in most games, but which I am here.
I can survive bad gameplay. Hell, I've been here since Launch, and the game's only been getting better and better. If I managed to suffer through bugs, stupid game design (would you like to have the old MoG back?) and boring stories, I will certainly be able to keep playing with the current stuff. Functionally forever, even if not a single new mission were ever added, just to make a point.
Good stories are good the first time around. Good stories are OK the third time around. Good stories become a chore the fifth, tenth, fiftieth time around. Good characters never cease being great, however, since I can keep making ever newer and ever better ones. Giving me better character designs gives me 40 characters' worth of improved gameplay, or thereabout, as I can tweak something on everyone. Do you have any idea how many characters I'd like to kill the smoky glow of Fly and Super Jump on? How many I want to give an inky black teleport?
"The use of having pretty and matching blasts" is that this improves the entire game for all of my characters universally. Improvements to the actual game add much, much less. The whole of Praetoria lasted me precisely four characters. JUST the Alpha aura, however, has so far lasted as much, if not more. That ought to tell you something.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I think a mix of content is something that's good for the game.
But relating to the original OP, I wouldn't take just an issue of customization over everything else.
I'd also like the players who like bases and pvp to have at least SOME time devoted to their own niches.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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This. And even if they were, power customization has a ceiling that it'll hit. There is a limit to it - meaning it WILL get "done" if they devote the time to it (arguments can be made that of course there's always more to customize - new weapons, Mastermind pets, etc but I'm talking of the Power Pools and Epics). The improvement of the end game, content, etc. is an ongoing thing that will continue to happen for as long as they keep supporting the game. The strengths of this game, to me, is the customization and characterization that you can accomplish with it. They should continue to support that and certainly finish what they started. Then go back to providing more content, new systems, etc.|
Originally Posted by Zortel
I doubt the people working on Power Pool/APP/EAT Power Customization would be the ones working on new missions and the like, just like you wouldn't expect SexyJay to be doing powers work for the new TF's and Castle to be working on mission maps.
My two inf. |
But I agree with Zortel, other than the UI support and some code needed - a lot of the two don't have to hinder each other to get done. Not for TOO long at any rate. I don't need new villains with new flashy powers each Issue. I'd certainly like to get more customization on several levels each issue.
And for what it's worth, I'd like to see the Epic ATs get limited customization, secondary color choices or limited color palette for their powers (Kheldians) and more weapon options (SoAs).
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Zombie Man is right, they never should have let it go this long unfinished. They have known forever how much Hasten, and the tricorder are hated by the players, and yet it is still static.
Sam also hit the nail on the head about the game Aesthetics. I hate to say it, because I love this game, but character customization is this game's main draw. Past that it is still button mashing in the end.
My characters and how I can customize them are what keeps me here year after year. I can do the same "content" over and over as long as I can do it in cool looking new ways.
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This is a 10 for me as well. I put the most work into power coloring on dark miasma, dark armor, and energy blast characters, but they'll never really be where I want them until dark epics can be colored to match and Aid Self can be done without the device.
In fact, as much as I really like how the dark powers look in dark green, it's not very practical, because of the Christmas Tree Effect that happens once I turn on Oppressive Gloom.
Yule or die!
Most of mine don't have Hasten. With three new powers to pick up, a bunch might want it, but few will take it until it can be recolored or essentially shut off. Don't get me wrong; it's a really pretty effect and well done, but it doesn't always make visual sense with every character. Sometimes you wind up looking like Super Recharge Man, if the other powersets don't have loud visual effects, such as MA/SR. Which I think is kind of funny, having a pool power that gets three slots and that's it be the defining visual characteristic.
Character-based visual things (costumes, auras, power coloring, to some extent new powersets) and game mechanics (new powersets, AI and mission changes, incarnates) are 10s for me, and content, bases, pvp, badges, etc are all pretty much unimportant to me.
Also, I disagree that power coloring is a failure. It's probably kept me in the game for months. Sure, it's not finished, can't wait until it is, but I sure wouldn't have wanted them to hold off on it until they could do it for epics and pools too. Glass half full, I guess.
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Angel Witch II - Chord of Souls - Storm Witch II - Princess of the Dawn - Standing Horse - Witch of Xymox
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The coders have to work on both, especially this because it would take substantial UI improvements to the tailor screens.
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Originally Posted by Zortel
I doubt the people working on Power Pool/APP/EAT Power Customization would be the ones working on new missions and the like, just like you wouldn't expect SexyJay to be doing powers work for the new TF's and Castle to be working on mission maps.
My two inf. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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How do you reconcile those statements? You acknowledge that the gameplay is bad, but then think that somehow having your powers all be the same color would make the game better?|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
"The game" isn't all that good, to be blunt. I can pick any single-player game and get far superior gameplay if that were my thing. But City of Heroes is the only game I'm aware of that has decent gameplay AND the ability to play it with MY characters and not whatever stock choice (if one even exists) that the developers have given me.
Give me a choice and I will always pick Darksiders, Soul Reaver, Tomb Raider, Oni and so forth. But much as I like the character designs in those games, they are not mine. I didn't pick them, I didn't make them and, truth be told, I feel I could do better if given the choice. Which I simply am not in most games, but which I am here. I can survive bad gameplay. Hell, I've been here since Launch, and the game's only been getting better and better. If I managed to suffer through bugs, stupid game design (would you like to have the old MoG back?) and boring stories, I will certainly be able to keep playing with the current stuff. Functionally forever, even if not a single new mission were ever added, just to make a point. Good stories are good the first time around. Good stories are OK the third time around. Good stories become a chore the fifth, tenth, fiftieth time around. Good characters never cease being great, however, since I can keep making ever newer and ever better ones. Giving me better character designs gives me 40 characters' worth of improved gameplay, or thereabout, as I can tweak something on everyone. Do you have any idea how many characters I'd like to kill the smoky glow of Fly and Super Jump on? How many I want to give an inky black teleport? "The use of having pretty and matching blasts" is that this improves the entire game for all of my characters universally. Improvements to the actual game add much, much less. The whole of Praetoria lasted me precisely four characters. JUST the Alpha aura, however, has so far lasted as much, if not more. That ought to tell you something. |
I don't get that. Why not improve the game and not cosmetic elements?
For example, the addition of tips, improved gameplay. There's more choices for content and content that has better mechanics. The addition of power customization was at best neutral to gameplay. I don't argue that there hasn't been improvements in some folks subjective enjoyment of the game, but there's no powerset that's improved, there's no gameplay options that open up. It's just a nice cosmetic addition.
Personally, I can see why the devs moved on in this instance. Especially if adding the pools is difficult.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Gek; powers work would be seperate from everything else. I don't see any feasible way that it would be all one group. Sure, coders might have to work on both, but thats their job schtick anyway, afaik.
For me? 9-10. I don't mind the EATs too much, since I quite like the colours they have now. However, I think they should get full customisation. No flipping half measures, thanks. 'They can only be one colour' is a very lame excuse.
As for pools, oh dear god... Medicine for sure, Hastens pom-poms of d00m, and Super Speed. If I jump over a high drop, SS blinds me. Freaking orange blaze trail of doom! I hate it.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I can't speak for Samuel, but for me it comes to this: the gameplay here is indeed very basic, and the AI is very, very dumb. Almost all the challenges you will be facing are not strategy, but stat-based. As such, the gameplay itself is basic. Have a character/team that has means of (a) overcoming those stats, <raw damage, raw resistance/defense> or (b)compromising those stats. <i.e.. via debuffs/controls.> |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
How do you reconcile those statements? You acknowledge that the gameplay is bad, but then think that somehow having your powers all be the same color would make the game better?
I don't get that. Why not improve the game and not cosmetic elements? For example, the addition of tips, improved gameplay. There's more choices for content and content that has better mechanics. The addition of power customization was at best neutral to gameplay. I don't argue that there hasn't been improvements in some folks subjective enjoyment of the game, but there's no powerset that's improved, there's no gameplay options that open up. It's just a nice cosmetic addition. Personally, I can see why the devs moved on in this instance. Especially if adding the pools is difficult. |
Everyone has access to the powers, everyone with the right setup can more or less do it. And after years and years, you will see folks do it.
What sets the game apart is that you can make a character that looks just how you'd like it to look to do the stuff...and with power customization, it may still be those same powers you're using to beat those stats, you can use colors to make them YOURS. Can somebody else choose the same exact stuff, and type in the story? sure, but with the gammot of options, the chances of that happening accidentally are slim indeed.
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I agree, then wouldn't it make a lot more sense to spend time fixing that instead of adding further means to differentiate characters. Since, as you said, this game is already unmatched in that regard. |
Originally Posted by Seldom
I can't speak for Samuel, but for me it comes to this: the gameplay here is indeed very basic, and the AI is very, very dumb. Almost all the challenges you will be facing are not strategy, but stat-based. As such, the gameplay itself is basic. Have a character/team that has means of (a) overcoming those stats, <raw damage, raw resistance/defense> or (b)compromising those stats. <i.e.. via debuffs/controls.>
Everyone has access to the powers, everyone with the right setup can more or less do it. And after years and years, you will see folks do it. What sets the game apart is that you can make a character that looks just how you'd like it to look to do the stuff...and with power customization, it may still be those same powers you're using to beat those stats, you can use colors to make them YOURS. Can somebody else choose the same exact stuff, and type in the story? sure, but with the gammot of options, the chances of that happening accidentally are slim indeed. |
How then is it the highest priority to finish customization if it's already the most robust element in the game? That doesn't make sense.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Because in this case more is better. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I agree, then wouldn't it make a lot more sense to spend time fixing that instead of adding further means to differentiate characters. Since, as you said, this game is already unmatched in that regard.
How then is it the highest priority to finish customization if it's already the most robust element in the game? That doesn't make sense. |
I have read the text for the new content, and I love the skill trees, but I still got more out of the added aesthetics in GR than anything else. Which means I read the text the first few times I did that stuff. Please don't get me wrong, I thing the GR story is some of the best I have ever seen in a game (only topped by Bioshock 1), but looking cool while doing it was still key for me.
The things that really neede to be added like under water swimming, running on water, outer space zones, and a few things I may of missed, don't seem to be on the radar. Customizing the Pools is just finishing what was started.
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It comes to this. you make your character all their own, cloaked in, say, magic blue/white fire. The character is truly distinct. You put in why the character looks that way, and have a concept that made you make that character. They are also super fast. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I agree, then wouldn't it make a lot more sense to spend time fixing that instead of adding further means to differentiate characters. Since, as you said, this game is already unmatched in that regard.
How then is it the highest priority to finish customization if it's already the most robust element in the game? That doesn't make sense. |
They turn on super speed. They use ancillary psychic powers. And it's the same as what everyone else has, and could not look less at place on your white/blue fire.
That's why.
Would I like to have more strategy in the game? Sure. But I'm not entirely sure that it CAN be the kind of smart game I find in my single-player games. If it had that sort of gameplay, I know a good many players that would never touch it again. These folks like the 1-2-3 power stuff, and can't stand the twitch/reflex/timing based experiences of more mainstream games. They vehemontly dislike enemies that resist 'too much.' A such, the developers not only would have to figure out how to make better AI/script better missions in a way that doesn't break the game, but if doing so is even the right decision. Can they do it? Do they want to?
But power pool customization? I know for a fact, as they have proven, that they have ways to customize various powers. It's just finding the best method, and investing the time.
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I'm one of these players. I wish the "game too easy" crowd would just go play a different game and stop messing with my pretendy fun time dress up smashy fest. |
Originally Posted by Seldom
Would I like to have more strategy in the game? Sure. But I'm not entirely sure that it CAN be the kind of smart game I find in my single-player games. If it had that sort of gameplay, I know a good many players that would never touch it again. These folks like the 1-2-3 power stuff, and can't stand the twitch/reflex/timing based experiences of more mainstream games. They vehemontly dislike enemies that resist 'too much.'
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Many of you have said that pool customization is extremely important, for some of you, the most important thing they can do. What about the game? What is the use of having pretty and matching blasts if you're dumped into a game that's doesn't get improvements because the coders are spending time trying to get pool customization right and the content designers can't get time on their schedule?
I guess for me, the looks is nice, but when it's all said and done, this is a game. The gameplay has to take precedence or why not just create a standalone "hero-creator" with a few offline missions and sell it for $50 bucks.
My two inf.
My two inf.
SUPPORT - IT'S NOT JUST A GROUPING OF ATs
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