Proliferate Sonic Resonance

It'd work well with MM's, especially Mercs/ with the -Res debuffs and the +Res buffs it offers.

Who agrees?

I do and been wishin for it for awhile.

a demon/sonic or a bot/sonic makes be giggle.

a thugs/sonic would really make me happy. (bruiser has the -res ally debuff, you liquify, and everything just melts.)

Sonic is too powerful for MM I suspect for the same reason we don't see /Rad or /Kin.

You can get part of the goodness for Merc with Merc/Thermal.

I know I should resist it ... I just can't!

Quote:

Originally Posted by je_saist Yeah. This is pretty much it. Have a Controller Sonic Res toss the Hula-Hoop of doom on a Mastermind pet that fights in melee range and you'll get some idea of just how disgusting that would be in a solo condition.

How about the Controller pops it on HIS OWN pet that fights in melee and we can see what it's like?

Or we get a /Pain or /Thermal do the same -res debuff with a bigger area and then see how it goes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by je_saist Back during the Issue 12 beta I think the subject was raised over why Thermal Radiation was going to Masterminds, but not sonic. Both featured +Resistance Powers, and both have Resistance debuff.

It was proliferated in Issue 16.

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Originally Posted by je_saist Some of the problems cited were too much resistance.

Cited by who exactly? Why no link? Why no quote?

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Originally Posted by je_saist If you check the MasterMind pets, they all have resistances, and no defenses. Using the Controller Buff numbers, with a Sonic Bubble up, Master Mind pets would have nearly 40% extra resistance (around 39% if capped into ED).

So? The EXACT same slotting on /FF now offers 28% defense to everything. 28% defense is much better than 39% resistance. That's actually still the case if the buffed target already has resistance (which is your claim). Why is that? Let's say they already have 20% resist to the type in question, and it becomes 59%. That's a effective damage reduction of 49% (the ratio of the original 80% to the now 41% that you'd take). Adding 28% defense would be an effective damage reduction of 56% (the quotient between 50% of hits they were taking, and then 22% while buffed).
In the cases where there is no resistance in place, Defense is just flat out better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by je_saist Coupled with the Sovereign Right: Resistance Bonus proc that was already in the game, Mastermind's would be able to deliver a near 50% resistance buff to everything but sonic.

Again, so what? More importantly sonic isn't a damage type, and as such I'm becoming suspicious that this whole post was a joke.

Quote:

Originally Posted by je_saist While not all Mastermind pets have resistances, such as the Ninja, the mastermind pets with smashing / lethal resistance were all standardized at 21% to smash / lethal damage. An additional 49% resistance would be putting the pets around 70% base resistance and immune to mez damage with sonic res clarity... WHILE SOLO The developers simply looked at that... and said no. It was too powerful.

I have a feeling that the devs have a better grasp about how damage mitigation works than you do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by je_saist Now does this argument hold up today?

Brief intermission. You realize that much of the player base argued MMs would never get a worthwhile AoE heal because it would be broken, and that's why /Dark's AoE has such a small radius? Check it out, I'll even cite a thread where it was brought up:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=123200

Quote:

Originally Posted by je_saist When a massive majority of the game has perma-hasten and soft-capped defense and everybody farms +4 levels / 8-team members solo? Oh wait, I need to get back to reality.

You sure do. I realize you were kidding here, even though it offered no value to your position, but most everyone realizes that the game's balanced around SO's. You could have just said that. I'll go ahead and skip the rest of the fluff here.

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Originally Posted by je_saist Even under SO's with just one IO, sonic res on a Mastermind would be disgustingly overpowered, especially with the body guard changes. You'd pretty much have no reason to take any other secondary set. You'd have loads of enemy debuffs, and an army of nigh unstoppable cannon fodder pets.

That's why everyone plays /FF now. Oh was it the debuffs that made it over powered? But Thermal could do all that and has decent heals in place of a small chunk of the resists...

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Originally Posted by je_saist Thermal-Radiation worked because it didn't have any toggle powers. Therm-Rad is all click powers.

Hahahaha... the difference of two toggles (the -res and the Heal vs Dispersion) is enough to balance the set? If that were true (it's not) they could have just changed two powers in /Sonic to proliferate it.

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Originally Posted by je_saist Even then, when compared to the Corruptor / Controller numbers, Therm-Rad is lower in everything but the +resistance and the resistance debuffs, which are identical. Therm-Rad Mastermind has lower heals,

Wrong. Healing is based your max hit points. That's the difference in healing power for the other healing sets as well. In fact, it's a whole tenth of a percent higher for MMs.

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Originally Posted by je_saist lower +damage,

You don't suppose that's to balance the fact that a MM is more in a position to spread Forge out? They don't need 4 allies to maintain Forge, while a Corruptor does?

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Originally Posted by je_saist lower mez protection, lower +tohit, lower -damage, and lower -defense, and uses more endurance.

7.79 is the standard mez protection from an MM. These changes happened with the other proliferated sets. So the idea that "Thermal works" but "Sonic couldn't," when they applied the same rules to the others MM secondaries as they did to /Thermal is just ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by je_saist So no, Sonic Resonance does not need to be proliferated to MasterMinds.

Because it wouldn't be as good as the sets in place now. Doesn't seem like a good enough reason to me.

lol, someone had to do it, good job Gilia.

Plus don't MMs have different debuff mods then controllers?

Good job Gilia

Yes, Sonic please.

The only reason left to not proliferate Sonic to Masterminds is that they already have Thermal, which is better in almost every way.

As someone with an unusual number of Sonic Resonance 50s (1 Def, 2 Corrs and 1 Troller) and an affection for the MM AT, (50s with all primaries, all secondaries), I'm not excited about porting over Sonic and I certainly fail to see how it would be OP.

The only real advantage I can think of is that mez protection comes in a toggle instead of something to micro-manage. Even that's not such a great advantage given how pets can scatter hither and yon. Even the -res toggle is dependent upon a pet being somewhere useful. Again, good luck with that.

I think, right off the bat, as a MM secondary it's clearly behind Thermal, which will grant the same +res in the shields and has Forge to boost damage instead of Disruption. Lastly I think Thermal ends up with a better toolkit to deal with hard targets (Heat Exhaustion offers -regen Sonic lacks).

Anyway, I'm not going to go down the list set by set to offer a thumbnail comparison of Sonic. At a quick glance, I'd say it would be closer to the bottom. That's not a bad thing, by any means, the worst MM set (Poison imo) is still very effective. So again, I think Sonic would be fine as a MM support set and in no way OP.

By the way, I think the same of Rad Emission and Kinetics. Given that you can't buff +Recharge on pets, I think you're missing a major component of what both of these sets offer.

I think Rad would be a very good set, not necessarily better than Dark or Traps though. Kin, on the other hand, seems a bit scary (in a bad way). Kin offers very little for pet protection. A melee heal that I think would prove frustrating due to the way pets move and Increase Density. That's it. You want to damage cap your pets? You'll have to give go-to orders to melee (since they tend to want to start from range then wander into melee) and hope they don't die.

Cold, on the other hand... well that would be very interesting indeed for a MM.

As much as this would rock, consider the following:

Demon Summoning/Sonic Resonance.

"RAAAAAAWRGH"
"Snert snort snarffle snurf"
"Roooaaargh"

BLEEEM woobwoobwoobwab
Haaaarh wabwabwabwabble
WUAM WUAM WUAM WUAM Wuam wuam...
SNEEEEEEE breebreebreebrom

NOISIEST COMBINATION EVER.

Not that it wouldn't play well, of course.

Would love to see both Sonic and Cold proliferated to MMs.

We are good with the sets we have now. Sonic being resistance only is epic phail out of the box. The sets that would have the most use out of the powers have the most fragile pets. So putting the -res toggle on say ninjas or zombies isnt such a great idea considering they die in so few hits even with the bubbles on them. The shield numbers on there own isnt going to be enough to keep the pets alive. You will need outside healing otherwise you will spend alot of time resummoning wasting more endurance.

Radiation and kinetics is even more epic phail since you can not give your pets any recharge bonuses anymore. That was gutted several issues ago. I am still mad at Castle for this because it pretty much gave me no reason to try any new sets on masterminds after they ported thermals. While the damage potential with rad and kin masterminds get worse numbers than defenders so the debuffs of radiation wont be as strong so pets get hit more. For kinetics it wont be possible to safely take advantage of fulcrum shift on huge spawns solo because the pets will die before you get to use the damage you just got. I just find it so retarded that the range pets get more resistance and or defense than the melee pets that die alot more. If they buffed ninjas and zombies I could see it working out a little bit better for sonic but your still gonna need a heal.

You can no longer affect the recharge rate of pets with enhancements, set bonuses, or buffs.

I would LOVE to have a /sonic secondary on melee type minions. The orange hula hoop of doom would rule all. I cannot see how thermal is so far ahead of sonic because sonic has the mezz protection. The liquefy kill zone would be so awesome. If you are talking robots, demons or necros, then they have their own heal processes, but there are always some secondaries that work better for certain mastermind primaries such as: thugs/poison.