Proliferate Sonic Resonance

Eiko-chan · 10-14-2010 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badmartialarts

I've seen my Demons gain Accelerate Metabolism. They turn into machine guns. Then they usually pull aggro and die. :/

They'll still gain the buff icon; just not any change in their recharge times. Any perception of them attacking faster is illusory.

Nalrok_AthZim · 10-14-2010 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StratoNexus

His belief system is quite clear and Thermal fits into his playstyle fine. Allow me to clarify:

Fair enough. The fact remains that if you were to go Demons/Necro you'd have a team with a crapton of resistance, even MORE resistance with /Sonic, and the ability to heal off all of the incoming softened damage.

Just because something is "pure resist" doesn't mean it's a failure. Can you imagine a Thugs/Sonic? Put Disruption Field on your Bruiser and Sonic Repulsion on one of your Enforcers, and then hitting the whole spawn with Liquefy...

... actually, that's probably why they won't give Sonic to MM's. XD

My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

Jibikao · 10-14-2010 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenRGamer

It'd work well with MM's, especially Mercs/ with the -Res debuffs and the +Res buffs it offers.

Who agrees?

Don't agree. One of sonic's "gem power" is Disruption Field which debuffs around an ally target. None of the Merc is melee (even though they run in but that is still not melee-oriented).

I am tired of casting bubbles on Ninja/FF so I'll definitely pass /Sonic.

/Sonic on Thug and Demon could be different.

What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

StratoNexus · 10-15-2010 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim

Just because something is "pure resist" doesn't mean it's a failure.

I agree completely. I love Sonic Resonance just as it is. I'd love it on a MM.

Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

Nalrok_AthZim · 10-15-2010 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jibikao

Don't agree. One of sonic's "gem power" is Disruption Field which debuffs around an ally target. None of the Merc is melee (even though they run in but that is still not melee-oriented).

I am tired of casting bubbles on Ninja/FF so I'll definitely pass /Sonic.

/Sonic on Thug and Demon could be different.

Just stick it on the medic. :P

My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

Gilia · 10-15-2010 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eiko-chan

I just thought I'd point out that Henchmen completely ignore all recharge bonuses (I think they might ignore recharge penalties, too, but I know for a fact that they're completely unaffected by any source of +recharge whatsoever, including enhancements.)

Good point. I was reviewing older arguments about MM before I responded the first time and the change to +recharge had slipped my mind. I'd be curious to know (in another thread) what the modern justification is for barring certain sets from MMs. I suppose currently it would largely be the "force multiplication" on an AoE scale of /Rad or /Kin that comes perma with SOs or less. At least with Anguishing Cry, for example, to keep it up all the time you need to invest in some +recharge.

I find it interesting that with the exception of one very weak argument, most people opposed or don't think /Sonic will come to MMs base it on the idea that it's too weak, or at least weaker than what's available now. The only reason I can see that being a factor is fewer people might play it, so it's a less useful way for the devs to spend their time. If it's not going to break the game in anyway, then why not? I would play a /Sonic MM because I like the set and would want to give it a whirl. The worst that could happen is I play on a slightly lower difficulty than with say /Thermal.

If it turned out to in deed be too weak, then the powers' effects could be adjusted accordingly.

@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.

Psylenz · 10-15-2010 11:14 AM

Gilia, I don't think sonic would be too weak. My first love were the defenders. In certain situations, you want one set over another. In no case would I say that forcefield is always better or always inferior to sonic and we have both sets in defenders; it should port nicely to masterminds.

Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

Eiko-chan · 10-15-2010 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psylenz

In certain situations, you want one set over another.

Like, for instance, if I'm already on a team with two Traps MMs; I would much much rather then have a Sonic or Thermal than a FF.

Seldom · 10-15-2010 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim

...Put Disruption Field on your Bruiser and Sonic Repulsion on one of your Enforcers...

Hahaha. Sorry. This has been counterbalanced already. I give you ten seconds max with both those running, trying to get full leverage out of them. You will go dry on endurance, and fast. Disruption field is end hungry. Sonic repulsion is an endurance vacuum.

Sonic would be a middle of the road secondary, in the end. It would be very nice for mastermind as most have some pets supporting pets with healing and or defense, so there'd be less imminence in you pet's loss of health, as happens with sonic resonance. ("You're tougher, but take too much on, and I can't help you.") Some sets would benefit greatly, sets like mercs would be 'eh.' It comes to this: it offers a particular sort of mitigation that is not all that common, and masterminds could leverage that by layering it with other mitigation. Still, it's a very defensive set, with very limited reactive or control options. Squishies also benefit far more from defense than resistance, and masterminds deal with a pocket full of squishies at all times.

The upside of being able to control disruption's placement would be mitigated by the squishier nature of many pets, and the way they are not sentient. Plus, I'd expect the endurance prices to be crazy on masterminds.

All in all, I'd say the set would actually be an easy, straightforward port. I'm surprised that it and /cold haven't been ported yet, and would be surprised if they weren't eventually.

Nalrok_AthZim · 10-15-2010 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seldom

Hahaha. Sorry. This has been counterbalanced already.

Fair enough, but you don't really need to laugh at me. Thanks.

I don't mean "run both constantly at all times." I mean "run Disruption while Bruiser is in combat, and drop Repulsion if someone gets too close." Slot for endurance redux, and definitely use Stamina. Besides, it's not like you can't eat blues (unless you're out of them).

I understand what you mean, but it doesn't necessarily boil down to "sorry it won't work ever."

My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

Seldom · 10-15-2010 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim

Fair enough, but you don't really need to laugh at me. Thanks.

I don't mean "run both constantly at all times." I mean "run Disruption while Bruiser is in combat, and drop Repulsion if someone gets too close." Slot for endurance redux, and definitely use Stamina. Besides, it's not like you can't eat blues (unless you're out of them).

I understand what you mean, but it doesn't necessarily boil down to "sorry it won't work ever."

My apologies, I'm not laughing at you, just at the mental image of doing it. My sonic/sonic corr tried it once...before dropping repulsion altogether. It was hilarious to me how fast the blue went down. (Heck, the corr struggles with trying to stay active with just and dispersion disruption as-is. That sucker is juicy.)

So please, don't take it personally. I was not pulling a /Nelson. Just laughing at a memory, more or less, that amused me.

Gilia · 10-15-2010 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psylenz

Gilia, I don't think sonic would be too weak. My first love were the defenders. In certain situations, you want one set over another. In no case would I say that forcefield is always better or always inferior to sonic and we have both sets in defenders; it should port nicely to masterminds.

I'm not sure if you mean to correct me or just casting your vote because I mentioned this as a possibility. Just to clarify though:

I don't think it would be too weak either. Perhaps I could have emphasized my language with bolds or something, but I said this was some people's idea and the even if it were true (I do not think it is), that a set being too weak is not a reason to make it unavailable. Too powerful is a much bigger deterrent.

I am also a big fan of Sonic Resonance. Hence I said I would play it on an MM if it came to them.

I can imagine circumstances where I would very much rather have FF or Sonic R, but that's pretty subjective anyway.

@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.

Nalrok_AthZim · 10-15-2010 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seldom

My apologies, I'm not laughing at you, just at the mental image of doing it. My sonic/sonic corr tried it once...before dropping repulsion altogether. It was hilarious to me how fast the blue went down. (Heck, the corr struggles with trying to stay active with just and dispersion disruption as-is. That sucker is juicy.)

So please, don't take it personally. I was not pulling a /Nelson. Just laughing at a memory, more or less, that amused me.

Ah, my bad. Sorry dude.

My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

Psylenz · 10-15-2010 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilia

I'm not sure if you mean to correct me or just casting your vote because I mentioned this as a possibility. Just to clarify though:

I don't think it would be too weak either. Perhaps I could have emphasized my language with bolds or something, but I said this was some people's idea and the even if it were true (I do not think it is), that a set being too weak is not a reason to make it unavailable. Too powerful is a much bigger deterrent.

I am also a big fan of Sonic Resonance. Hence I said I would play it on an MM if it came to them.

I can imagine circumstances where I would very much rather have FF or Sonic R, but that's pretty subjective anyway.

Certainly not a correction, I was making a statement of affirmation to porting over sonic could be done very easily. In your last sentence you mentioned if it were too weak they could adjust the effects, and I was stating that my opinion is sonic is just fine.

Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

Vel_Overload · 10-16-2010 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enyalios

Sonic is too powerful for MM I suspect for the same reason we don't see /Rad or /Kin.

You can get part of the goodness for Merc with Merc/Thermal.

I highly doubt this. Considering we have /Dark and /Thermal.

I want Sonic just so I can say I have a Death Metal band with my Zombies.

Whining about everything since 2006.

Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484

Obscure Blade · 10-16-2010 02:27 AM

I also would like sonic. As for why it hasn't been proliferated yet, I always assumed they were trying to avoid sets too similar to sets the AT already has. I suspect that Masterminds will get /Rad before /Sonic for that reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA

(can't see that being the case though, I thought the change was done at a low level and automatically inherited by all pet entities).

Nope; at one point when the pet recharge nerf was in beta Defender Lightning Cloud was excepted from the change. So it is possible for a single power to be bugged to still be affected.

Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth

ChaosExMachina · 10-16-2010 10:18 AM

Quote:

You realize that much of the player base argued MMs would never get a worthwhile AoE heal because it would be broken, and that's why /Dark's AoE has such a small radius?

Would like to link that topic I posted just before I12 where I suggested storm summoning.

Among the responses were a bunch of posts about how stupidly overpowered it was, an accusation I was trolling, and speculation that some bot must be spamming the board with nonsense.

A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!

newchemicals · 10-16-2010 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenRGamer

It'd work well with MM's, especially Mercs/ with the -Res debuffs and the +Res buffs it offers.

Who agrees?

I don't. Mercs prefer to stay at range except for the Leeroy Medic.

Demons, Ninjas, Zombies and Thugs would make better use of disturption field since those sets have tougher things that sit in melee.

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Eiko-chan · 10-16-2010 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obscure Blade

I suspect that Masterminds will get /Rad before /Sonic for that reason.

/Poison is basically single-target /Rad, so I'm not sure how that criteria fits.

Redd Rumm · 10-16-2010 07:57 PM

I think it will happen one day. MM's will get that an prolly cold too .
The devs will give Mm's any thing but kin!! My Dream of thugs on speed will never be a reality .

Psylenz · 10-16-2010 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redd Rumm

I think it will happen one day. MM's will get that an prolly cold too .
The devs will give Mm's any thing but kin!! lol

or empathy... Imagine the bruiser with Adrenalin Boost.

Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

Seldom · 10-16-2010 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obscure Blade

I also would like sonic. As for why it hasn't been proliferated yet, I always assumed they were trying to avoid sets too similar to sets the AT already has. I suspect that Masterminds will get /Rad before /Sonic for that reason.

Nope; at one point when the pet recharge nerf was in beta Defender Lightning Cloud was excepted from the change. So it is possible for a single power to be bugged to still be affected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eiko-chan

/Poison is basically single-target /Rad, so I'm not sure how that criteria fits.

See, /sonic is easy, It's so very binary in its skills most of the time. Your team gets tougher, theirs gets weaker. /Rad? It runs the gammot. -res, -rech,-regen,-damage,-tohit, -defense, +dam, +speed,+recovery,+rech... and it does those to a crowd, and pretty consistently.. I have a /poison and when I look at the powers, it does seem like the devs looked worriedly at /rad and changed it into a far more single-target version. While many think /kin would be the sheez-neez, /rad would offer far more powergaming options for the devs to worry about.

Sooo, yeah. /Sonic seems an easy fit. I wouldn't be surprised to see it come issue 20/21...not in the least. Masterminds are very popular, so giving them new powers seems to make sense. Giving them a more steady/middle of the road set like /sonic? Makes even more sense.

Oedipus_Tex · 10-16-2010 10:43 PM

Just based on my experience with Sonic Resonance I think most people would be disappointed. It's not so bad it's unplayable, but I think that, like Defenders, Corruptors and Controllers, Sonic Resonance would be one of the least played sets after people got a taste of it. Masterminds do have the advantage of a pet to hang the debuff ring on, but the lack of a heal in Sonic Resonance is extremely noticeable relative to Thermal. A single cast of Cauterize, unslotted, beats the extra Resistance from Sonic's big bubble. It's certainly not unplayable but I've been fantasizing that the reason they haven't proflif'ed it yet is because they're waiting to buff it first. The endurance costs, if nothing else, certainly could use some help.

Obscure Blade · 10-17-2010 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eiko-chan

/Poison is basically single-target /Rad, so I'm not sure how that criteria fits.

They aren't that similar. One is mostly a bunch of targeted click powers, the other has two targeted auras, a self heal, a +recharge/recovery buff, and an AoE hold.

Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth

macskull · 10-17-2010 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA

Are you changing your Avatar every 20 seconds or something Mac, you seem to be regressing through all your older ones today?

Or maybe I'm going slowly crazy.

PHP rotation script ftw.

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