As much as I'd love Fulcrum Shift on a pack of demons, /Kin is a set that doesn't offer a whole ton to MMs outside of the obvious.
Transfusion: Good heal. this is useful.
Siphon Power: Small damage buff. Probably won't make much of a difference. Useless once you get FS.
Siphon Speed: Nothing for pets, MMs themselves don't really need the recharge buff.
Increase Density: I guess this can be useful if a pet of yours gets mezzed. Not something all that great, though.
Speed Boost: Helps with recovery and makes them run around like even bigger idiots. Double edged sword. I find after end slotting that henchmen don't really have endurance problems. Pets don't benefit from +recharge so the big draw to this power is wasted.
Inertial Reduction: AFAIK, all pets come with SJ, so this is useless.
Transference: If you're using SB and have end slotting this doesn't help your henchmen.
Fulcrum Shift: Seeing as how every other power in the set ranges from useless to decent for a MM, this is the only reason anyone would bother with making a /kin MM.
Now this all applies to a solo MM. On a team /kin would be as useful and awesome as any other AT using the powerset. To a solo MM though, it offers little compared to other sets.
I really don't think it would be OP at all and would like to see it on MMs.
Transfusion: heal with a source of -regen which some mastermind primaries lack.
Siphon power: not sure of the buff rate on a mastermind sized SP, but there is also the -damage you apply to targets, which can be very useful on hard targets.
Siphon speed: +recharge for masterminds with hell on earth, gang war, soul extraction, noxious gas would be very beneficial. Again, the debuff as discussed in the defender forums in one of the few if not unique debuffs that is irresistible, very useful on hard targets.
Increase density would be very much like the thermal thaw, much more useful to mastermind teammates.
Inertial reduction means your mastermind needs no travel powers. All the travel powers (level 14) suppress movement while fighting. Inertial reduction has no travel suppression.
I can think of numerous situations where end drain from foes can reduce your pets' endurance. Transference is a killer debuff also. This is all part of the kinetic single target sapping package.
Fulcrum shift would be exceptional for masterminds with melee centric pets.
My fear is they would gimp the kinetic set similar to how they gimped twilight grasps' radius, by reducing transference's radius or capping the number of buffs that would be allowed for fulcrum shift.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
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Why that's how I Noxious Gas! lol
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Just stick it on the medic. :P
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You're seriously overselling the set, I think. The -regen from Transfusion is small and is resisted, meaning you'll need to absolutely spam the power against hard targets to ensure it's being useful (though the -regen isn't the draw to the power or even the set or you'd see a lot more Kins soloing AVs and the like).|
Originally Posted by Psylenz
Transfusion: heal with a source of -regen which some mastermind primaries lack.
Siphon power: not sure of the buff rate on a mastermind sized SP, but there is also the -damage you apply to targets, which can be very useful on hard targets. Siphon speed: +recharge for masterminds with hell on earth, gang war, soul extraction, noxious gas would be very beneficial. Again, the debuff as discussed in the defender forums in one of the few if not unique debuffs that is irresistible, very useful on hard targets. Increase density would be very much like the thermal thaw, much more useful to mastermind teammates. Inertial reduction means your mastermind needs no travel powers. All the travel powers (level 14) suppress movement while fighting. Inertial reduction has no travel suppression. I can think of numerous situations where end drain from foes can reduce your pets' endurance. Transference is a killer debuff also. This is all part of the kinetic single target sapping package. Fulcrum shift would be exceptional for masterminds with melee centric pets. My fear is they would gimp the kinetic set similar to how they gimped twilight grasps' radius, by reducing transference's radius or capping the number of buffs that would be allowed for fulcrum shift. |
The problem is Kinetics lacks a lot of active mitigation against anything other than single targets, which isn't a big deal if your pets are ranged, but then you're largely unable to leverage Fulcrum Shift effectively. If your pets are melee, you might be able to get your pets into a small enough area to get the buff, but you're putting them at risk while doing so without any way to help them out except Transfusion, if it hits and if the pets are still in the heal radius. The biggest advantages to Kinetics would be knockback protection for your pets (Increase Density) and +recharge in Speed Boost but since pet recharge isn't buffable that's no longer a selling point of the set. Siphon Speed is nice, yes, but you really only have a few powers that can take advantage of it.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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I don't know if it was overselling it other than pointing out some omitted points in the previous post. As far as spamming transfusion, don't the /dark masterminds spam twilight grasp and howling twilight in AV fights, and wouldn't you want to anyway in order to heal the pets on the occasions that the power actually hit the AV? Kinetic defenders have been used to the double edged sword in the usage of the buff/debuff and lack of AoE soft controls, in this way kinetics resembles what is in the /poison secondary (although poison does have neurotoxic breath). Kinetics (and their assumed pets) have health and blue bars that bounce up and down. Siphon power and fulcrum shift are about KILL or be killed.|
Originally Posted by macskull
You're seriously overselling the set, I think. The -regen from Transfusion is small and is resisted, meaning you'll need to absolutely spam the power against hard targets to ensure it's being useful (though the -regen isn't the draw to the power or even the set or you'd see a lot more Kins soloing AVs and the like).
The problem is Kinetics lacks a lot of active mitigation against anything other than single targets, which isn't a big deal if your pets are ranged, but then you're largely unable to leverage Fulcrum Shift effectively. If your pets are melee, you might be able to get your pets into a small enough area to get the buff, but you're putting them at risk while doing so without any way to help them out except Transfusion, if it hits and if the pets are still in the heal radius. The biggest advantages to Kinetics would be knockback protection for your pets (Increase Density) and +recharge in Speed Boost but since pet recharge isn't buffable that's no longer a selling point of the set. Siphon Speed is nice, yes, but you really only have a few powers that can take advantage of it. |
I would continue the comparison between defenders and potential */kinetic masterminds. Which defender secondary would you want instead on a character rather than the mastermind primary of your choice? I submit that the kinetic set is an offensive set compared to the polar opposite which I would designate forcefields as.
How would you compare */trick arrow mastermind to the proposed */kinetic mastermind?
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
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I think Kin MMs would be more popular than TA MMs, if only because TA seems to be a very unpopular set regardless of AT. TA is a good set (AoE -res, -def, -dam, -regen, -tohit, and some control), but it lacks any buffing ability which makes it unique among the buff/debuff sets, and it's got a sort of stigma because of that.|
Originally Posted by Psylenz
How would you compare */trick arrow mastermind to the proposed */kinetic mastermind?
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To clarify: I'm not saying Kin would be a bad set for Masterminds, just that the people who seem to want it tend to forget that it would be difficult to leverage one of the set-defining powers (FS) and another one of the set-defining powers (SB) has very limited usefulness for the Mastermind itself.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
Who says it isn't stupidly overpowered? My Bot/Storms is the equivalent to having a team full of 5-6 controllers who don't let anyone get hurt. Shame on you for letting my Bot/Storm be so damn powerful! shame on you!
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Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
Would like to link that topic I posted just before I12 where I suggested storm summoning.
Among the responses were a bunch of posts about how stupidly overpowered it was, an accusation I was trolling, and speculation that some bot must be spamming the board with nonsense. |
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
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Utterly off topic:|
Originally Posted by macskull
MMs already have Pain, which offers Painbringer, which given the inability to buff pet recharge is already better than Adrenalin Boost in almost every way imaginable.
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I love Dr. Steel.
EDIT: Of course his Avatar changes when I post this. Disregard post.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
I would also really like to see the Sonic Resonance set proliferated to MMs. I didn't see any evidence of any proliferation in I19, but it would be nice if we got at least one proliferation to each AT.
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Which closed Beta? The one for DP this spring?
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Since I can't PM you, I hate to break it to you but your sig is wrong... Ammo swap for DP was suggested way back in the early bits of the pre-release Closed Beta during a play session with Castle. >_>
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Yeah, but now that I read his sig and (for some reason) have the correct dates now (last time I looked it was 2010 not 2009) I'm redacting my earlier post. I would still say it's a bit much to say it was his idea, though...
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Which closed Beta? The one for DP this spring?
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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It is a pretty common idea I have seen many times, true. It was suggested a lot as a change for Assault Rifle.
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Yeah, but now that I read his sig and (for some reason) have the correct dates now (last time I looked it was 2010 not 2009) I'm redacting my earlier post. I would still say it's a bit much to say it was his idea, though...
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
You can pm me (not sure why you can't.. is something turned off?) but my sig has been here for.. awhile.. longer than a year I believe. Sorry If I seem proud that the Devs listened to my idea of fire/cold/toxic ammunition. Atleast I'm not saying 'The devs listened to me before, thus they should listen to me now' or throw around 'i've been here since 2004, thus my ideas are betterer' or 'I know the Cottage Rule, thus my opinion means more than yours'
I should also put that a few people in that topic also had great ideas and showed that it was possible (unlike those nay-sayers grrr!). I'll probably do that later.
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
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Well, I'm glad you don't say this one, because the Cottage Rule is stupid, and has done some pretty serious damage to this game.
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Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
'I know the Cottage Rule, thus my opinion means more than yours'
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I have no idea what we're talking about at this point, but I would like to voice my support for getting /Sonic on MMs. It seems like a good fit, especially for Bots and Demons. I've taken FF to 50 twice, and the bubbling experience was vastly better on a mastermind than on a defender, to the point that I've resisted making a Sonic buffer until I see it proliferated to MMs as well.
Things I hate: Anime. PvP. Lying MMO Developers. Outleveling content. Manga. ED. Comic Store Employees. Anime.
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If you'll notice, I redacted my post.
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Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
You can pm me (not sure why you can't.. is something turned off?) but my sig has been here for.. awhile.. longer than a year I believe. Sorry If I seem proud that the Devs listened to my idea of fire/cold/toxic ammunition. Atleast I'm not saying 'The devs listened to me before, thus they should listen to me now' or throw around 'i've been here since 2004, thus my ideas are betterer' or 'I know the Cottage Rule, thus my opinion means more than yours'
I should also put that a few people in that topic also had great ideas and showed that it was possible (unlike those nay-sayers grrr!). I'll probably do that later. |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."