Is the accuracy in this game suspicious to anyone else?


Arcanaville

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_B View Post
The loudest sound in the world is "whiff!"
No, the loudest sounds are a bang when you expected a click and a click when you expected a bang


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Posted

Accuracy and defense in this game are bunk.


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

Posted

Granted it's been a long time since I did any computer programming, so what I'm about to say may be a little dated, but I think this is probably the issue at work:

It's just a symptom of how computer random number generators work. After all, the numbers aren't truly random, but influenced by a random number "seed". As a result of how these algorithms work, computers can and often do get "stuck" in a range of numbers from time to time. This is why we have the streak breaker code. It's an attempt to limit how often and how hard this impacts the player.

So there's no intent by the Devs to cause the annoying streaks of missing we get on sometimes. It's just a limitation of computer technology they try to work around.


 

Posted

Mmm...

I have noted this in forums in the past, but I do not believe accuracy has been tempered with, but actually I suggest you actually have your chat screen display your combat rolls. I have noticed from time to time, my "random" number generator tends to get stuck in a relative range; I especially hate it when it seems to get stuck exclusively rolling between 90 and 100. And to add insult over injury the attacking mobs are also stuck rolling between 1 and 25...

While this aberrations do happen, its not frequent and are quite rare. When I see the so called random number generator mis-behave; I simply log out of the game and call it a night. By next day, it will be better...

Stormy

Ps: Of course the aberration has work for me as well, and I must confess to milking it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman View Post
Granted it's been a long time since I did any computer programming, so what I'm about to say may be a little dated, but I think this is probably the issue at work:

It's just a symptom of how computer random number generators work. After all, the numbers aren't truly random, but influenced by a random number "seed". As a result of how these algorithms work, computers can and often do get "stuck" in a range of numbers from time to time. This is why we have the streak breaker code. It's an attempt to limit how often and how hard this impacts the player.

So there's no intent by the Devs to cause the annoying streaks of missing we get on sometimes. It's just a limitation of computer technology they try to work around.
Actually, the random number generator is much better than that description would suggest (per actual testing by Arcanaville). The purpose of the streakbreaker is to prevent streaks that are perfectly acceptable statistically, but annoying to actual players.

If you know your odds to hit are 75% and you miss 5 times in a row, many players will get annoyed. Statistically, if you play a lot, this would be guaranteed to happen frequently. But, since it would seriously irritate some people, we have the streakbreaker to prevent it.

You would be appalled by how many people would agree with the statement, "Since my odds to hit are 3 out of 4, it's impossible to miss 5 times in a row."


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The Mentor Project

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman View Post
Granted it's been a long time since I did any computer programming, so what I'm about to say may be a little dated, but I think this is probably the issue at work:

It's just a symptom of how computer random number generators work. After all, the numbers aren't truly random, but influenced by a random number "seed". As a result of how these algorithms work, computers can and often do get "stuck" in a range of numbers from time to time. This is why we have the streak breaker code. It's an attempt to limit how often and how hard this impacts the player.

So there's no intent by the Devs to cause the annoying streaks of missing we get on sometimes. It's just a limitation of computer technology they try to work around.
The rand the devs use for the tohit system is, I'm told, basically the standard (modern) rand() from the standard C libraries. Its known to be a strong generator, and it doesn't show streakiness of a kind a human being could possibly detect. My tests of it show that the tohit rolls generated by the game are consistent with using that generator. Its not cryptographically secure unless well-seeded with an entropy source and some implementations I've heard have LSB weaknesses, but its close enough for game purposes.

The streakbreaker code is not there to correct a problem with the rand. Its there to break unlucky streaks because players complained about them way back in the old days enough to make a dev decide to implement a guaranteed miss streak limiter that frankly I'm guessing was as much to allow them to *know* when someone was lying or mistaken about miss-streaks as to actually provide a benefit to the players when attacking. I know its the first thing that tips me off when someone claims behavior the streakbreaker makes impossible. Its *always* either an error of perception, or frankly not the truth, every case investigated.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinz View Post
I have been getting the same, especially in Praetoria for Lowbies. My DP/EM and my Kin/SD has been missing an awful lot. I watch the combat window and it shows a lot of bad luck, and when I expect the streakbreaker to kick in, it doesn't. (Being 1 miss for 95%, 2 for 80-90%, I think, 4 or 5 for 70-80%, etc.) I do think there might be some kind of problem in the system. Or me, and two other friends, plus you, are having REALLY bad luck.
I actually had someone in Preatoria argue with me that Kinetic Melee had a lower base Accuracy then all the other melee attacks, and that's why it has Power Syphon. Even after I pulled up the Real Numbers, he refused to believe me and discuss it. Stubborn as a mule, he was. Two starred him for willful ignorance.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinz View Post
I have been getting the same, especially in Praetoria for Lowbies. My DP/EM and my Kin/SD has been missing an awful lot. I watch the combat window and it shows a lot of bad luck, and when I expect the streakbreaker to kick in, it doesn't. (Being 1 miss for 95%, 2 for 80-90%, I think, 4 or 5 for 70-80%, etc.) I do think there might be some kind of problem in the system. Or me, and two other friends, plus you, are having REALLY bad luck.
Turn on chat logging (there's a way to do this in the options menu), make sure tohit rolls are being logged in at least one visible tab, and when it happens again PM me an excerpt of the entire sequence surrounding the problem. Trust me when I say the odds are very good there will be a logical explanation for the apparent problem that is not due to a broken random number generator or a malfunctioning tohit system. This is something I know a little something about.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Turn on chat logging (there's a way to do this in the options menu), make sure tohit rolls are being logged in at least one visible tab, and when it happens again PM me an excerpt of the entire sequence surrounding the problem. Trust me when I say the odds are very good there will be a logical explanation for the apparent problem that is not due to a broken random number generator or a malfunctioning tohit system. This is something I know a little something about.
So you figure out the defense system and you think you know something about the to-hit? MADNESS!


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa View Post
So you figure out the defense system and you think you know something about the to-hit? MADNESS!


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Posted

I downloaded Herostats and used it for the first time last night on my level 12 defender.

I had a very pleasent evening getting her up to 14 and I seemed to be hitting all the time... Bill is right! It is a plot! But I'm on to them now, if I run the herostats they'll have to let me hit now or I'll have proof!!

Silliness aside, all of my powers hit an average of 91-98% of the time which is cool since I have enough accuracy DO's in them to have a "last to-hit" of 95% on all the blue-con minions I was fighting last night (diff -1, I have enough stress this week thank you).

This morning they were back to normal, all in the low 80's. But it WAS only 2 missions. I'll see how it plays out over time.

[Edit] LOVE the poster Arcana LOL


 

Posted

I'm still trying to figure out how my stalker's 4ft sword can miss from 3 feet away when she takes the time to aim (Assassin's Blade).

Or the psionic lance.. all your toon has to do is look at the enemy.. how does one -miss-?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayla Ewa View Post
I'm still trying to figure out how my stalker's 4ft sword can miss from 3 feet away when she takes the time to aim (Assassin's Blade).

Or the psionic lance.. all your toon has to do is look at the enemy.. how does one -miss-?
Ever miss the garbage can from 2 feet away?


... 'cause... you know... I haven't...


Pinnacle
@Mr.Catastrophe

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayla Ewa View Post
I'm still trying to figure out how my stalker's 4ft sword can miss from 3 feet away when she takes the time to aim (Assassin's Blade).

Or the psionic lance.. all your toon has to do is look at the enemy.. how does one -miss-?
How is it that the critters don't kill you when they shoot you in the head and you aren't superhumanly resistant to brain damage? A combination of comic book logic and game simplifications.

Hidden within the game simplifications is a lot of real world possibilities. Perhaps its not that you literally missed a motionless target. Perhaps the target moved suddenly at the last instant, or you stepped on a twig while executing the strike and the target got lucky and turned towards you in just the right way for the blade to miss. There are all sorts of ways for such an attack to fail to hit the target other than you literally can't hit the broad side of a barn.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayla Ewa View Post
Or the psionic lance.. all your toon has to do is look at the enemy.. how does one -miss-?
Well duh? You can't attack my brain without looking me in the eyes... which is why all my toons have masks!

Sounds silly, but it's basically the concept we have for sheilds and parry adding defense. The attacks do hit... they just hit the shield/sword and do no damage.


I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.

 

Posted

Played my firey aura scrapper tonight. I was pleased all around during play although I've always felt the blazing aura wasn't worth the endurance drain.

When I got finished I reviewed the Herostats...
Player To-Hit Chance: Average for Blazing Aura = 83.55
Hits by Blazing Aura: 8
Misses by Blazing Aura: 142
Accuracy % for Blazing Aura: 5.33%

Heh... now that's pathetic. At least all the other powers look fine between 89 and 100%. Guess I better look at my slotting on the aura but the diff between 83 and 5 is... wow.

Speaking of Blazing Aura... anyone else notice that the aura is looking pretty anemic lately? It used to be a definite pulsing ring but now I just get one or two little pulsing jets.


 

Posted

Player To-Hit Chance: Average for Blazing Aura = 79.25
Hits by Blazing Aura: 4
Misses by Blazing Aura: 84
Accuracy % for Blazing Aura: 4.55%

Combined Accuracy for both days after 230 rolls... 5.22%


 

Posted

Perception.

Sometimes it's laughable how predictable it is.
Last night I was rolling along on my level 22 Brute, showing my friend the awesome Protean arc. He'd never seen COH before and I was showing him various things. After the arc I took a radio and let him sit at the controls for a mission or two. Doing my best to get him hooked.

So there he is rolling along without trouble, asking questions here and there. Then he saw that the inspiration tab was red. I explained that it was full and he opened it up and asked what various ones did.
He popped a few reds and enjoyed the bit of extra damage (one of them was tier2)
Then he asked what the yellow one did.

I laughed and told him "It makes you miss on your next attack"
He laughed and said "Why?"
I said, well actually it increases your accuracy for a short time...
but the 1st attack is gonna miss I promise.

Sure enough he popped the yellow and Whiff! Next attack hits, then Whiff.

"Well that one's useless." He laughed.

Perception. It's a killer.


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Keep Calm & Chive On!

 

Posted

Depending on the number of enemies you where facing, BA was probably eating up your misses. What was your overall/ laverage to hit and hit rate was.

Although if you haven't throwing in an Acc SO or IO in there would help your overall to-hit as it would increase your streakbreaker hits, most likely.


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Posted

I published the numbers from Herostats. Average between the two sessions was around 81% chance to hit, actual accuracy was 5.22%. Granted that's only a couple of hundred tries but still. Seems strange when everything else's to-hit was hovering within a percent or two of the actual accuracy.


 

Posted

I was meaning your to-hit and actual accuracy for your charactr as a whole, not just blazing aura.


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Posted

Ah, well other powers have to-hit in the 89-95% range and actual accuracy was the same. Blazing Aura is the lowest at around 81 because it has only 1 level 30 accuracy IO in it.

3rd session, other powers still spot on but Blazing Aura still unusually low:
Player To-Hit Chance: Average for Blazing Aura = 81.65
Hits by Blazing Aura: 9
Misses by Blazing Aura: 134
Accuracy % for Blazing Aura: 6.29%

And I know 4 of those hits were from a batch of level 5 Hellions in AP near a mission entrance. So after 364 attacks Blazing Aura's average accuracy to actually hit is 5.77%.

There's gotta be something wrong with that... right?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel View Post
Ah, well other powers have to-hit in the 89-95% range and actual accuracy was the same. Blazing Aura is the lowest at around 81 because it has only 1 level 30 accuracy IO in it.

3rd session, other powers still spot on but Blazing Aura still unusually low:
Player To-Hit Chance: Average for Blazing Aura = 81.65
Hits by Blazing Aura: 9
Misses by Blazing Aura: 134
Accuracy % for Blazing Aura: 6.29%

And I know 4 of those hits were from a batch of level 5 Hellions in AP near a mission entrance. So after 364 attacks Blazing Aura's average accuracy to actually hit is 5.77%.

There's gotta be something wrong with that... right?
Yep, there's gotta be something wrong with that. And I just logged in one of my Fire tankers in on live, and I notice Blazing Aura isn't generating tohit rolls in my combat chat on hits. I see the damage, and I do see misses, but no actual tohit roll messages on hits, only misses. Maybe that's just me: I'll do a bit more testing tomorrow, but without those messages herostats won't be able to generate proper statistics. Your numbers might be faulty for that reason.

When you actually look in your combat chat, do you actually *see* tohit rolls and hits or misses from Blazing Aura? Something like "Blazing Aura had a 95% chance to hit, and rolled a 46.23." or similar message? Or are you just getting the "Blazing Aura deals 37.07 points of fire damage to X" and "Blazing Aura missed!" messages and the miss rolls ("Blazing Aura had a 95% chance to hit, but rolled a 96.23.")

I notice your last session showed 134 misses and 9 hits, which implies your entire recorded session generated 143 ticks of Blazing Aura, with a tick being one pulse of BA hitting one target. That's like the number of BA ticks you'd generate in about a minute or two of game play. That doesn't sound right.

Also, my Blazing Aura does seem to be hitting targets at a much higher than 5% hit rate when I watch the actual damage.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolerance View Post
I seriously think these to hit rolls are railroaded and/or tampered with.
They have been. It's all a Nemisis plot....