Quote:
This. I generally won't say anything, but I make a note of it and won't invite them to future teams.|
I consider SB to be a key power in the set and one of the main reasons to have a Kinetics character on the team. Personally, if a Kin joins my team and won't SB the team, I generally make a note of the person and won't team with him again. I don't make a stink about it and generally don't say anything. I also won't kick somebody for that, but I can choose to avoid him in the future. |
Also, I am especially annoyed when I see */Kin Controllers that not only have SB, but use it constantly on their pet(s), and never once buff the team. I also hate the people with SB that use it once at the start of the mish and once it goes away, they never rebuff it.
Like I said, I very very rarely say anything, but you get a major strike in my book.
Quote:
No, that isn't even close to the same thing. In fact, this statement is beyond ridiculous. If a scrapper doesn't take his mez protection, chances are he will have a hard time functioning at a below average level of play.|
Originally Posted by Silas
If you want a Scrapper analogy, it would be like skipping Active Defense or Practiced Brawler because you didn't like being locked into activating the power every so often.
|
If a kin doesn't take SB he can still function at a high level of play.
A better comparison would be a claws or fire scrapper not taking Spin or Fire Sword Circle. Sure, you can still be good on teams, but you would be a lot better if you took your awesome PBAoE attack.
Okay, perhaps it's a bit extreme because a Kin who skips SB only vastly hampers their ability to contribute to a team, whereas a Scrapper who skips their mez protection vastly hampers their ability to contribute to a team and their ability to solo.
Your comparison is better, I agree. Kins without SB can still contribute a lot to a team, they'd just contribute so much more by being on the ball about SB. For me, since SB requires so little time, thought or effort to maintain even on a full team, it's a no brainer.
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The OP just needs to team up with a group of Kins, where everyone gets SB. For teams where you're the only kin you could have dual build and make one with SB and the other without, then swap accordingly.
The main thing with applying SB on teams is to remember that you manage the power, the team does not. SB at the first mob, then go into combat mode afterwards (alternate between shooting and buffing). Since I've rolled for years with the Pinball Wizards (all kin SG), I've been trained to apply SB and ID. I don't keep it up when ID expires, I just reapply it I refresh SB. I don't use keybinds so I'm old school about my buffing. It's what I'm used to. Lots of my RO mates use keybinds, it does save time for them.
Eventually (depending on if you team with a same group or SG mates) you'll get a feel for how long or how many mobs it takes before you need to reapply SB. Once you get that intuitive skill down and realize that you don't have to chase people down to buff them (SB apparently makes everyone zip off in 20 directions), don't be bullied into giving SB every time someone notices an icon blinking. If you have a buff cycle stick to it! Don't allow teammates break your rhythm. Naturally, if your rhythm is buffing ever 20 mins, expect some choice words to be tossed at you.
I have taken 3 different toons to 50 with kinetics. A Fire/Kin troller, an Ice/Kin troller, and a Kin/Sonic defender. I can safely say that speed boost and fulcrum shift are the two defining powers of the kinetics set. If you do not take both of them, you severely damage your ability to contribute to the team. It is not that hard or annoying to buff people with speed boost, because it greatly enhances their end recovery and recharge and generally makes life easier for your team.
When you invite people to your teams, you have certain expectations. If you invite a tanker, you expect them to tank. If you invite a controller, you expect them to control the enemy to some degree. When you invite a kinetics, you expect speed boost and fulcrum shift. If the person does not fulfill these expectations to at least some degree, well, they should try a different archetype.
I usually do not kick people from my teams, but when I invite a kinetics to the team and they are at the level where they could have speed boost yet do not have it, I really have to resist the urge to kick them. Even if you are using fulcrum shift to its greatest potential, you are contributing about 50% of what you could be contributing if you had speed boost. Just take speed boost and use it. Your team will love you for it.
Quote:
Playing as a buffer takes practice. Just like the people who can't handle the +run speed of SB need to spend time playing with Superspeed always on, eventually, you'll get the hang of it. In terms of buffing, you will either develop an internal timer so you'll feel when you've been idle too long and need to do another round of buffing or you'll subconsciously keep a count of how many other powers you can use in between buffing rounds.
|
Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
I've really not spent much time on the buffer side of the game, so this is all new to me.
|
Teams are the number one killer of soloists.
SB is what - 20% Global Recharge? That's 2 full purple sets of recharge, in a single button.
For those who want to pew pew and not buff: Don't roll buffing ATs. Debuffs work too. Go do that. Then you can pew pew all day long and no one will probably notice that you're not debuffing like you should 
Here's another tip: Target through your teammates. As you target them to heal from their target, or hit them with an SB, hit an attack. Its not terribly difficult to DPS while you buff. SB has a 2 second recharge on it. If you're keeping Siphon speed on yourself you should have at least your t1 or t2 power available between every SB. Just spam one attack between every SB. That's 6 attacks you got off while waiting for SB to come back up.
At level 30, my fire/kin corr does this: SB - Fireball - SB - Flares - SB - Some buff that's needed for me / a heal for someone else - SB - Fireball - Repeat until everyone is buffed. At 38 when I get FS and Transferrence, there will be even less time for me to attack, and yet, I'll work it in just like I do now.
"I don't like buffing". Super! I don't like hitting myself in the head with a hammer. Hence, why I don't walk under boxes filled with hammers. 
If you think that you're going to have issues applying SB, or with people yelling at you for NOT applying SB, then... don't be a Kin. It seems to me that the only reason someone would want to be a Kin when they don't want to buff their teammates is because they want FS every time they play. Being a Kin ensures you get that FS. But that's really a rather silly reason to play a support AT and then not do the support part.
More, actually. SB is a 50% recharge buff, equivalent to 5 purple sets of recharge. It also grants 2x the recovery buff of Stamina at base, provides slow, -rech resistance and high speed movement that doesn't suppress in combat.
It animates in 1 second, recharges in 2 seconds and lasts 120. Honestly, the more I look at the SB numbers the more I realise what a stupidly good power it is.
Quote:
This is pretty much it. If you don't want to buff, don't play something with awesome buffs.
|
Originally Posted by Misaligned
"I don't like buffing". Super! I don't like hitting myself in the head with a hammer. Hence, why I don't walk under boxes filled with hammers.
If you think that you're going to have issues applying SB, or with people yelling at you for NOT applying SB, then... don't be a Kin. It seems to me that the only reason someone would want to be a Kin when they don't want to buff their teammates is because they want FS every time they play. Being a Kin ensures you get that FS. But that's really a rather silly reason to play a support AT and then not do the support part. |
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
I'm coming at this from a Force Fielder perspective.
I have played with force fielders who didn't take both bubbles, who don't keep the bubbles on the team, or who are otherwise Bad Bubblers. I don't care if you don't want to bubble people, but if you don't want to bubble people DON'T PLAY A MONKEYFIGHTING FORCE FIELDER. 12 alts per server, do something else. Don't be a remora.
Generalizing: Kin only has about three good powers, as well. If you don't want to use those three powers, perhaps you'd be happier with some other powerset. (My list is Speed Boost, Fulcrum Shift and Siphon Power, but you could make a case for the heal. I'm not much of a kineticist.)
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Quote:
I would also ask if anyone really does or doesn't want it. Some builds will benefit greatly from the +recharge, perhaps even more than the recovery. It could mean the difference between perma-something (domination, VEAT pets, dull pain, Adrenaline Boost), which just compounds the usefulness of speed boost.|
Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
You know. I might just try that. I'll speed boost as needed (someone low on endurance) or just not at all and see if anyone complains.
. |
My experience as a kin and otherwise has been you're better off taking speed boost and only using it on request than not taking at all. Harassment, team kicks, having a TF look for a "real kin" after they find out, all that noise is just easier to avoid. Plus it's not like it's a bad pick up in any regard.
Also, if you have the dexterity shift+(1-8) will target your teammates. With characters who I'm only concerned about one buff I like to make a bind or macro to make it auto, then just run down the team. As a Defender/Corruptor this can be nice because you're still contributing to a fight, but you're not doing anything to draw aggro for a moment.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
If there is no SB I'll adapt, but in not SB'ing your not only potentially slowing the teams xp/time down but also your own. I tend to keep it up. Sometimes I can be preoccupied by using other powers that are more important at a particular time. I would rather have a Kin that prioritized to the moment rather than buff cycles or peoples requests the moment they lost SB.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Quote:
This is totally my attitude, emphasis added.
|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
If there is no SB I'll adapt, but in not SB'ing your not only potentially slowing the teams xp/time down but also your own. I tend to keep it up. Sometimes I can be preoccupied by using other powers that are more important at a particular time. I would rather have a Kin that prioritized to the moment rather than buff cycles or peoples requests the moment they lost SB.
|
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Quote:
Siphon Power is equivalent to one buff from Fulcrum Shift and may be dropped after obtaining Fulcrum Shift. Transferrence should be your third useful power. Gaining 50-100% endurance on a 15-30 second recharge (depends on slotting) is just amazing. You can fill up almost anyone's endurance after nuking and almost do it on demand. Sappers become less of a threat with it. Generally, everyone doesn't even know who did it when their endurance goes from half to full in a fight.|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
Generalizing: Kin only has about three good powers, as well. If you don't want to use those three powers, perhaps you'd be happier with some other powerset. (My list is Speed Boost, Fulcrum Shift and Siphon Power, but you could make a case for the heal. I'm not much of a kineticist.)
|
Applying SB to a full team takes 19 seconds (1s cast, 2s recharge for the first 6 teammates) if they are not spread out. Consider the 50% recharge it adds and how much extra damage everyone on your team could do as a result of that. Could you really do as much damage as them in that 19 seconds? If a kinetics ONLY spams speed boost on everyone in their team then does nothing, they are still contributing more to their team's killing speed than any other AT could. Adding Fulcrum Shift on top of that turns a team's pace from drawn-out fights to wiping the floor with their enemies in seconds.
If you want to do damage, don't team up as a kinetic. Play solo or play a different power set.
Quote:
Siphon power does as much damage debuff to a single target as fulcrum shift does, and stacks with itself. Very useful against AVs and monster class enemies.
|
Originally Posted by Syntax42
Siphon Power is equivalent to one buff from Fulcrum Shift and may be dropped after obtaining Fulcrum Shift.
|
Culex's resistance guide
Quote:
Agreed. I was referring to buffing situations where you would mostly be killing packs of enemies. Against something like an AV, debuffing damage will help your team's survivability greatly.
|
Originally Posted by Pitho
Siphon power does as much damage debuff to a single target as fulcrum shift does, and stacks with itself. Very useful against AVs and monster class enemies.
|
h "teamselect 1$$powexec_name Speed Boost$$bind_load_file c:\keybinds\sb2.txt"
I have setup 8 notepads and the issue I have is its seems completely random on firing off speed boost.
teamselect always works but speedboost seems to be 50 50.
sometimes I can cycle the whole team and not one sb will fire off. On the next round SB will fire off.
I am not rushing it I waiting for everything to refresh
I guess I could make 16 notepads and one for each command but wanted you guys to take a look and see if maybe I had something wrong.
They should just change it to PBAoE like AM and lower the scores... Done... or make it like FS and same stats with a TOHit check
My 2 cents on this.
I have three kinetics corruptors. A Rad Blast, Ice Blast and Assault Rifle.
Managing SB is easy when you get the knack of it. All three of those are aoe monsters. When in a full group I do a round of sb only interupting it to do a fullcrum shift if the situation presents itself. Once that is done I have about 90 seconds to pump out aoe damage. Once the mob has melted I sb again. Usually I sb between mobs and it works fine. On bigger mobs or AVs i have to sb during the fight but im used to it.
However......if you are not in range of me when i do an SB round thats your problem. Im with the tank/brute If I cant sb you due to range (ill move to sb if its terrain blocking you) but if you are three halls down or on the next level or another island.....phffft dont even bother asking.
If you do need sb, please wait more than 3 seconds to ask. Odds are I was busy or had to deal with obstructing terrain to get to you. Be patient if you are where you are supposed to be you will get it.
The odd time it takes me more than 30 seconds to get to you......for some reason I missed you. Maybe I was slow maybe you were too far away, regardless please at least do the courtesy of saying sb plz.......if you say sb meh or sb.....you wont see it for the rest of the time Im grouped with you.
If you Dont want SB (yes i have met them) be aware that its a habit to sb everyone. Ill try not to give you the buff but it will happen now and then. Deal with it.
Archery Kin should be nice. I was going to build one. Rain of Arrows every 20 or 25 seconds is nice. However Full Auto just as often and Ignite even more often was more appealing. I get a warm fuzzy feeling when I am damage capped and drop an ignite on the ITF console and start watching it scourge its a beautiful sight, or for that matter any av that has been locked down.
Last ....... and this is the one that will probally incite people to a flame war though its not meant to. If you dont SB I will kick you. End of story. I dont mind asking if you forget or are new to it but if you refuse to SB or worse do not even have it in your build (and yes I do check) I will kick you. If I can manage to sb people and do other stuff than anyone can. Also, and I hate to admit I do this but Ill be honest. Unless I know the person I wont even invite a Fire Kin to a TF. They only worry about buffing themselves and you spend most of the tf trying to keep them alive because they think they can farm anything :P As a matter of fact I joined a pug last night. Good group, two fire kins in it. I never seen SB once. Do I need it no......but it has significant benefiets above and beyond the endurance aspect. I did have to rez them both several times though heh.
*readies fire extinguisher*
Quote:
Your forgetting Transferance. Blasters love being able to nuke at will knowing you ll target a boss and replenish their end every time they do it.|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
I'm coming at this from a Force Fielder perspective.
I have played with force fielders who didn't take both bubbles, who don't keep the bubbles on the team, or who are otherwise Bad Bubblers. I don't care if you don't want to bubble people, but if you don't want to bubble people DON'T PLAY A MONKEYFIGHTING FORCE FIELDER. 12 alts per server, do something else. Don't be a remora. Generalizing: Kin only has about three good powers, as well. If you don't want to use those three powers, perhaps you'd be happier with some other powerset. (My list is Speed Boost, Fulcrum Shift and Siphon Power, but you could make a case for the heal. I'm not much of a kineticist.) |
Also ID is great.I dont keep it on people perma but its nice to bring someone out of a mez but more importantly the resitance buff it gives is alot if slotted. For some fights it helps to toss it out for the alpha and first few seconds of the fight till the mob is removed and your down to the av or avs.
What it boils down to is being a good kin takes alot of practice. As someone above noted, you can get alot done while the power is recharging. For me a sb buff cycle lasts about 16 to 24 seconds because I do all my other kin type powers while sbing. I target through people to throw out targed buff debuffs. I leave my siphon speed on auto to keep my own recharge as high as possible it fires on its own while I am buffing more often than not. As I said above this leaves a solid 90 seconds for me to chip in.
Its very fast paced and demanding. Probally why I enjoy it. Its also very rewarding when several people you only met today send you a tell after a tf run and comment that your an awsome kin. Not tooting my own horn just saying that it seems like a trial to play but once you get there its very rewarding. Also teams will always have room on tfs or you.
I think I want to go roll up Kin number 4 now.....
*edit* Also for those of you who might not have the dexterity to do the shift click thing or dont want to make keybinds you can make an additional tray and put it up by your team window and put your buffs there. If you move the team window out from the edge of your screen you can shove a horizontal bar against it and make an L shape around the team list for your buffs. You can also put a vertical two wide column beside it whatever your preferance is that way its a simple matter of clicking the target and clicking the buff.
*readies fire extinguisher*
Quote:
if you have room - my suggestion is take it and use it when you can, but not just because someone is whining they don't have it up. i usually don't bother buffing people up with it unless:|
Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
I'm looking at and liking a build I have for a kinetics/archery defender (or corruptor). I played the defender version up to level 12 and learned very quickly that I really do not enjoy maintaining speed boost on my teamates. Frankly, I mainly play scrappers and damage dealers, and the idea of rebuffing 7 players every 2 minutes all night long is not fun for me. I'm aware that this may just mean kinetics isn't the set for me, but I'm wondering if any of you expirienced kineticists find that not having speed boost, or not keeping it up 100% of the time is heavily frowned upon.
Also, as an alternative, if there's a bind/macro I can use to quickly cycle through my teamates by tapping a button 7 times in a row, that'd probably help me enjoy the toon a lot more. Any suggestion or advice? |
1) they ask nicely
2) they are low on end (and no transference target is near)
3) they are slowed
most kinetics users have other contributions to the team besides buff/debuff (damage or control) and i know there is always something i can be doing to help the team and just being an SB bot is neither necessary nor fun. sure, buffing up before and during an AV fight is reasonable, but to just plow through minions, its largely unnecessary.
50: Ill/Kin(A+,R,J)-1047 badges RE/Dark(A) Fire/Elec Warshade BS/Regen Necro/Poison Ice/Fiery(A+) Son/Son Bane(A) FM/DA(A) DM/Nin Grav/Icy
lvling: Inv/EM DM/Sheild Arch/MM Bane NW Elec/Earth Grav/Elec Elec/FA Rad/Ice
Paragon Elite/Rogue Elite Joined Oct 2004
Quote:
lots of good info here.|
Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
I'm looking at and liking a build I have for a kinetics/archery defender (or corruptor). I played the defender version up to level 12 and learned very quickly that I really do not enjoy maintaining speed boost on my teamates. Frankly, I mainly play scrappers and damage dealers, and the idea of rebuffing 7 players every 2 minutes all night long is not fun for me. I'm aware that this may just mean kinetics isn't the set for me, but I'm wondering if any of you expirienced kineticists find that not having speed boost, or not keeping it up 100% of the time is heavily frowned upon.
Also, as an alternative, if there's a bind/macro I can use to quickly cycle through my teamates by tapping a button 7 times in a row, that'd probably help me enjoy the toon a lot more. Any suggestion or advice? |
personally I put SB in slot 1,
a) click the first person on team and hit "F" for follow.
b) hit "1" with my left hand.
c) repeat for second person on team.
In short, SB in the first slot of your tray works great. (for me and maybe you?)
You might try a Range enhancement in SB also. (less chasing)
It used to be tedious for me, but now i enjoy it.
for advanced users, hit the space bar between steps a) and b) hitting the "1" at the apex of your jump.
perma jump is ---> /up 1
Quote:
You can set this up directly under Options->Keymapping->Team as well. You'll still have to press 2 buttons to SB each person, but I found it more flexible than the file loading binds.|
Originally Posted by DrMike2000
The binds I used were just the simple:
/bind numpad1 teamselect 1 /bind numpad2 teamselect 2 /bind numpad3 teamselect 3 /bind numpad4 teamselect 4 etc. |
I also had the following bind, for when I first joined a team:
"/bind b team If you don't want speed boost, let me know. If you do want it, SHUT UP, you'll get it!"
...I didn't mind buffing people, but I grew to hate hearing "SB please." And I really, really got tired of people expounding on the wonders of it.
Quote:
Pretty much this. I really don't mind recasting SB (and find it to be a part of the set's fast paced charm), and can find it annoying when people do not SB. I won't kick up a fuss about it, but I will make a note to avoid picking the same player over another player who wouldn't purposely hamstring their team's overall performance like that.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
I can understand being frustrated by continually speed boosting the team, but Speed Boost will have a significant effect on the effectiveness of the team -- mostly due to the Recharge buff. I consider SB to be a key power in the set and one of the main reasons to have a Kinetics character on the team.
Personally, if a Kin joins my team and won't SB the team, I generally make a note of the person and won't team with him again. I don't make a stink about it and generally don't say anything. I also won't kick somebody for that, but I can choose to avoid him in the future. |
I pretty much don't bother inviting Fire/Kin trollers anymore as I can count on them never SBing...
A Penny For Your Thoughts #348691 <- Dev's Choice'd by Dr. Aeon!
Submit your MA arc for review & my arcs thread
Quote:
By the time Corruptors/Controllers get Speed Boost, you're on the verge of a level range where almost everyone can manage their own endurance. Sure, Defenders get it well before 20, but if you team you'll zoom right to 20. The +recovery is nice, especially against sapper types, but the +recharge is better.|
Originally Posted by Soul_Stormer
if you have room - my suggestion is take it and use it when you can, but not just because someone is whining they don't have it up. i usually don't bother buffing people up with it unless:
1) they ask nicely 2) they are low on end (and no transference target is near) 3) they are slowed most kinetics users have other contributions to the team besides buff/debuff (damage or control) and i know there is always something i can be doing to help the team and just being an SB bot is neither necessary nor fun. sure, buffing up before and during an AV fight is reasonable, but to just plow through minions, its largely unnecessary. |
Because of the +recharge it should be up all the time, on everyone, unless they ask to not have it. The +recharge can translate into oodles of goodness. It could mean permadom for an ally, or perma AB on whoevers tanking, or all the highest DPA attacks going off 20% more often. It means increased survivability on anyone with a click heal. The only set up where the +recharge could be bypassed is for an ally who has their recharge maxed to do their highest DPS chain repeatedly already.
I'll admit I've dropped the ball a few times, and hit on folks because their blue bar was dropping or because they had to ask. It does get tedious, and it can be annoying. Not doing it means I'm not doing my job though. ...and no, keeping SB up all the time doesn't make you a buff bot or mean you're not contributing elsewhere. Fire off one or two between mobs if it's a fast team. If it's a slow team hit 4 - 7 of them between mobs. It's so easy...
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
Corruptors are a hybrid AT. That means their focus should be on damage and support.
This doesn't mean you're reduced to a buffbot, but it does mean if you skip one of your best buffs you will be rightly chastised. I wouldn't kick someone without SB from my team, but I would chalk them down as a bad Kin. If you want a Scrapper analogy, it would be like skipping Active Defense or Practiced Brawler because you didn't like being locked into activating the power every so often.
SB is incredibly powerful and requires minimal effort to keep it up on a whole team. Yes, it can be tedious. I personally wish SB had a 4 minute duration like the buff shields, but I've learned to live with it. It's not a big deal.
Besides, it's not like you have to keep everyon SBed at all possible times. Kinning is busy. Sometimes it'll lapse on someone for a minute or so. Not a big deal. If you're on the ball with Transference/FS and are generally good about keeping SB up, you're doing a good job.
I personally don't think it's a question of peoples builds being bad or whatever and needing SB. The way I look at it, SB is a fast animating, fast recharging, incredibly potent buff that allows the team to go as full throttle as I want them to go.
I can suffer buffing people every few minutes for that. You can even break it up so you're not SBing the whole team in one go. Just SB a few people at a time between your AoEs, FS and all the rest of it.
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans