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For Safety!
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Originally Posted by Psylenz
Bubble up!
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Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
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My experiences are far different amongst my defenders/corruptors/blasters/controllers/dominators. It's pretty rare for me to get mezzed against even malta and carnies, since it only takes 5 to 10 seconds to lock down a boss or 2 Lts. In the very rare situation I do get mezzed, I always can use break free or convert inspiration into break frees to use. Mezzes aren't any where near as dangerous as they used to be and are pretty easily handled if you play smartly.
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Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
I really don't understand why you seem to think that a ST hold is capable of completely preventing you from being mezzed. While there are not usually *too* many mezzers in a spawn, if its one of the factions that has them there is usually more than one (and that's ignoring the possibility of it being a boss). In the real world powers miss, chaotic situations are difficult to keep track of, and the foes don't always meekly follow your plan for the battle. Having bubbles means that you're likely to survive even in the (not very uncommon) situation where something goes wrong.
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Other than the incarnate I do this already. I wonder what I will do when i can skip stamina. Recently a few of my friends and I were hunting Fakes in the Shard. I was exempt down from 45 to 41 helping them get the badge. In some of the spawns were Crey PP but I was focused on the Fakes so I did not notice it aggro on me and fly up to attack. My friends playing the Scrapper and Blaster tried to warn me. |
Originally Posted by Knowmad
Get Power Build Up from the epic pool. That makes Fortitude and FF shields godlike against the ultimate threats in the STF, LRSF, COP, etc.
FF especially is very underrated. When fitness becomes inherent and FF defenders can layer Dispersion with Maneuvers, Tough, Weave, and IO bonuses such as red fortune, gaussians, the steadfast unique, and the Incarnate Slots, look out. |
I finished the Fake and then turned to the claw wielding PP i had been ignoring and went to work on him. My friends of course remember I am playing my Armored FF/Psi Defender and stopped worrying about me. Earning some friendly you suck messages.
Pinnacle
Arch light L50 INV/SS
Psiberia L50 Kin/Psi
Screaming Mentallica L50 Sonic/MM
Infinity
Arc Voltinator L50 SS/Elec
Mind Fire Kinesis L50 Fire/Kin
Flaming Screamer L50 Fire/Sonic
Why do I get the feeling that, if cold had mez protection, you would use that as ammunition about how superior cold is to Rad?
Is this a case of "if it's not in Cold, I don't personally value it", or do you genuinely not see mob mezzes as being detrimental to your play?
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I submit to you Turbo that this appears to be a more manageable situation because of your veteran playing experience. When you approach a spawn, there is no mystery which villains you need to address first and which second. A newer player does not have this benefit and such will view mezzers as OMG! I need to defeat that #$%% right now. By then it may be too late to recover. This does not lower the threat value that mezzing mobs pose to typical "Squishie" characters, just illustrates that you have learned the tactics to quickly address them and use break-frees as a "fall-back" measure.
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
My experiences are far different amongst my defenders/corruptors/blasters/controllers/dominators. It's pretty rare for me to get mezzed against even malta and carnies, since it only takes 5 to 10 seconds to lock down a boss or 2 Lts. In the very rare situation I do get mezzed, I always can use break free or convert inspiration into break frees to use. Mezzes aren't any where near as dangerous as they used to be and are pretty easily handled if you play smartly.
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BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
I love having Force Fielders on my team - I refer to them as a recipe for success. I love it when the more fragile members on the team don't have to worry about getting hit or mezzed and can continue to do what they do best.
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
You're disregarding the use of Char, Flashfire, Cinders, Block of Ice, Glacier, Ice Slick, Tesla Cage, Jointing chain, Syn Overload, and Paralyzing Blast in that scenario. All powers I would consider firing at least one of prior to any other action. Static Field and Flash Freeze are also relevant if we're talking solo or small team, also bonfire in some extreme situations though I wouldn't recommend it most of the time. Also you seem to disregard that Arctic Air is an AoE confuse. I mean you assume the player is standing around waiting to get mezzed to support your argument at this point instead of actively preventing it.
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Videos or it doesn't go down like this. Specifically, I want to see you do this to a pack of 16 Carnies containing a minimum of 2 Boss level Master Illusionists. Please use an Ice Controller with no I0s in your demonstration. Minimum level is +3.
P.S. The statement about me "assuming the player is standing around waiting to get mezzed" is probably the most ridiculous claim yet made in this thread, and that's a real achievement.
P.P.S. And yes, you're required to make it through the fight without having Arctic Air detoggled. (If this were a fair challenge at all, you'd be required to do it for the whole mission.)
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Originally Posted by Biospark
I submit to you Turbo that this appears to be a more manageable situation because of your veteran playing experience. When you approach a spawn, there is no mystery which villains you need to address first and which second. A newer player does not have this benefit and such will view mezzers as OMG! I need to defeat that #$%% right now. By then it may be too late to recover. This does not lower the threat value that mezzing mobs pose to typical "Squishie" characters, just illustrates that you have learned the tactics to quickly address them and use break-frees as a "fall-back" measure.
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To be honest I don't think even Turbo really believes her statements about mezzes. I'm pretty sure she just feels cornered and is blindly defending herself at this point. I know I've felt that way on the boards before when I've been on the defensive. I'd like to give her an out, but she's making that really difficult.
The amount of mezzes you get highly depends on playstyle. Case in point, my Kin/elec got mezzed A LOT in end game content, but that's due to standing so much to the tank and tossing out AoEs. My Kin/sonic was virtually the opposite just because she sat back more. This says nothing of my TA/a who pretty much laughs at the idea of getting mezzed.
Assume situations while on a team.
Or bad situations, such as when you're fighting a mob of Carnies, the Scrapper accidentally aggroes a second spawn while Scrapperlocking, then an unexpected ambush pops up from behind, and out of nowhere the Blaster just went 100% to 0% in .52 seconds. Suddenly, you can have upwards six bosses and a bunch of lts, all with mezzes. No single target mez will save you there. AoE mezzes aren't much better.
Or better yet, let's make them Malta and all those bosses and lts are titans with toxic gas missiles. Suddenly, you have non-squishies getting mezzed through their mez protection! And, of course, they're not going to bother carrying break frees because they haven't been mezzed for about 30-40 levels.
It's instances like that where you break out the four purples and your panic buttons. Unfortunately, some people don't have the latter because said buttons are "too situational". Whoops! And the former? Unlucky insp drops or they already used em. And then there's some teammates who just. don't. use. insps. No idea why, they just don't.
Lower level example. You encounter a mob of PPD. The minion-ranked PPD Ghosts hit you with Flashbangs, lowering your to-hit and defense by 40ish% respectively for each shot. I... think I'll just leave it at that for this one.
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I don't think she does either. It all sounds good, and in perfect circumstances, it might work that way, but in actual practice it doesn't. I have a nicely IO'd Fire/Rad controller. Between Char, Cinders and Choking Cloud, I can nearly instantaneously hold an entire group of boss rank enemies. I can regularly solo on +2/x8 with that character. |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
To be honest I don't think even Turbo really believes her statements about mezzes. I'm pretty sure she just feels cornered and is blindly defending herself at this point. I know I've felt that way on the boards before when I've been on the defensive. I'd like to give her an out, but she's making that really difficult.
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None of that matters when facing large numbers of mez-heavy opponents like Malta or Carnies. One of them is going to get missed and fire off their status effect, or they are going to fire it off between the time they first agro and they get hit with a status effect themselves. I have to slow down, be more cautious, use more breakfrees, and turn down my normal difficulty to handle those types of enemies.
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I know you meant sonic but......|
Originally Posted by Biospark
I agree with Tex regarding Turbo,
Here are a couple of my favorite aspects of FF; Solo: You get personal status protection. Only one other defender primary can say that and it does not allow you to solo nearly as well as FF. I took medicine pool on my Bubbler (He is tech origin) and in the middle of a nasty fight I can turn on PFF then Aid Self, drop PFF and continue where I left off. Its like a hold button. I love that. Teams: Because you only need to hit your teammates with 2 bubbles every 4 minutes, you get to spend ALL of your remaining time being Offensive. There are no words to describe how much more enjoyable that is compared to playing other buffing sets (Empathy, Kinetics) who need to constantly be alert to the teams needs and often spend a majority of their time refreshing buffs. So even though the common wisdom is that FF is not an Offensive contributor to the team, thats just a mentality of folks who look only at what you can do for them, as opposed to what you can do for the team. Offense = Defense (in a way). I absolutely love playing FF on a team AND solo. This is not a statement I can say about very many Defender primaries, because nearly every single set has some kind of major drawback in either solo or team-play (or Both --> Kinetics). Enjoy your Tank-Blaster  |
Traps always gets forgotten. Mez protection, defense, and traps that keep working even when that sleep gets through. Also, solo's heck of a lot better than FF.
if by "a heck of lot better" you mean "faster," then you're correct.
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Ooops, yeah I keep forgetting that Defenders have that set now too. My Bad.|
Originally Posted by Late2Party
I know you meant sonic but......
Traps always gets forgotten. Mez protection, defense, and traps that keep working even when that sleep gets through. Also, solo's heck of a lot better than FF. |
But that still leaves the majority of defender primaries needing to be pro-active against mezzers rather than having some measure of protection from them.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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Trial and error is a natural element of any game. You're making the assumption that players are wholly ignorant and incapable of learning from their mistakes to attempt to make mezzes seem far more dangerous than they actually are. First time I ever encounter a sapper, I died, but I've never died to one ever again as long as I have an ST mez hit them with.
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Originally Posted by Biospark
I submit to you Turbo that this appears to be a more manageable situation because of your veteran playing experience. When you approach a spawn, there is no mystery which villains you need to address first and which second. A newer player does not have this benefit and such will view mezzers as OMG! I need to defeat that #$%% right now. By then it may be too late to recover. This does not lower the threat value that mezzing mobs pose to typical "Squishie" characters, just illustrates that you have learned the tactics to quickly address them and use break-frees as a "fall-back" measure.
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did you ever read beyond 2 posts in that thread? I'm not the only one that thinks ST holds/stuns handle mezzes quite well.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
To be honest I don't think even Turbo really believes her statements about mezzes. I'm pretty sure she just feels cornered and is blindly defending herself at this point. I know I've felt that way on the boards before when I've been on the defensive. I'd like to give her an out, but she's making that really difficult.
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I don't have anything against you Turbo, so far its just been a difference of opinion on the value of FF at the end game. But please don't put words in my mouth. |
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Trial and error is a natural element of any game. You're making the assumption that players are wholly ignorant and incapable of learning from their mistakes to attempt to make mezzes seem far more dangerous than they actually are. First time I ever encounter a sapper, I died, but I've never died to one ever again as long as I have an ST mez hit them with.
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"ignorant and incapable" WTF is that !
I assume no such thing about players. Each person earns their stripes individually, but I can assure you that I would not feel this way about a fellow player. Perhaps later when your blood is cooled, you should come back and re-read my statements to see where I really stand. Till then, have fun
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Trial and error is a natural element of any game. You're making the assumption that players are wholly ignorant and incapable of learning from their mistakes to attempt to make mezzes seem far more dangerous than they actually are. First time I ever encounter a sapper, I died, but I've never died to one ever again as long as I have an ST mez hit them with.
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You know Turbo, it might strike you one day that you are not the only person who has experience playing City of Heroes. It might also strike you that the icon displaying in my avatar is the Controller archetype crest, and it's there because of how much I enjoy playing Controllers. You might also venture to the Controller section of the message boards one day and see that I'm a regular contributor. You may also discover my advice on slotting to maximize the Controller's ability to use holds, stuns, knockbacks, and other abilities. In addition it might occur to you that the reason I rolled, and posted a build of, an Electric/Force Field Controller was precisely because of experience I have had with Controllers and getting mezzed. On further reflection it might dawn on you that I have two Ice Control characters, one Electric, and two Fires, and have at least some authority to report what my play experiences have been with those sets. It might occur to you that several of those builds have Indomitable Will from the Mind pool. Finally it might become apparent that when you have to argue with 15 or so people for four days to prove your point, the universal truth of your message is possibly disputable.
Actually, never mind. None of that is going to occur to you. The rest of us are simply too "ignorant and incapable" to comment on any aspect of the game with which you disagree.
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On an entirely related note, spiffy avatar.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
You know Turbo, it might strike you one day that you are not the only person who has experience playing City of Heroes. It might also strike you that the icon displaying in my avatar is the Controller archetype crest, and it's there because of how much I enjoy playing Controllers. You might also venture to the Controller section of the message boards one day and see that I'm a regular contributor. You may also discover my advice on slotting to maximize the Controller's ability to use holds, stuns, knockbacks, and other abilities. In addition it might occur to you that the reason I rolled, and posted a build of, an Electric/Force Field Controller was precisely because of experience I have had with Controllers and getting mezzed. On further reflection it might dawn on you that I have two Ice Control characters, one Electric, and two Fires, and have at least some authority to report what my play experiences have been with those sets. It might occur to you that several of those builds have Indomitable Will from the Mind pool. Finally it might become apparent that when you have to argue with 15 or so people for four days to prove your point, the universal truth of your message is possibly disputable.
Actually, never mind. None of that is going to occur to you. The rest of us are simply too "ignorant and incapable" to comment on any aspect of the game with which you disagree. |
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Finally it might become apparent that when you have to argue with 15 or so people for four days to prove your point, the universal truth of your message is possibly disputable.
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The world is so much easier to live in when you're right and everyone else is wrong.
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Notice that the OP in that thread is talking about soloing on -1/x1. In those situations, a ST mez would work just fine because he's practically guaranteed to encounter at most one mezzer per spawn, who isn't a boss and against which his control duration will be more than long enough to defeat it.|
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
did you ever read beyond 2 posts in that thread? I'm not the only one that thinks ST holds/stuns handle mezzes quite well.
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This entire thread has been about large teams in the endgame, where there is most emphatically *not* only one -1 non-boss mezzer in each spawn. In that situation I wouldn't even expect an *AoE* control to be an entirely foolproof mez solution, let alone a ST one.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
if by "a heck of lot better" you mean "faster," then you're correct.
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When I said "It solo's a heck of a lot better than FF", yes I meant faster, just as safe, and more efficient. What metric do you use while solo?
It minimizes down time. There's knock back/damage and area denial. There are debuffs (-def, -dam, -Res, -speed, -recharge, -to hit, and -regen/w an aoe hold all permanent with hasten and slotting), and an included regen buff in addition to status protection and defense.
Soloing with FF you get the same +defense/status protection, knockback with more knock back, and a knockdown/AOE, a O noes/stealth power, and a phase.
Not that I think we should be really discussing the solo-ability of support sets, I don't think it would be incorrect to say it is not less safe than FF while soloing, as I think your implying. Heck traps can get PFF from Mace Mastery for a `O noes` button, until the next patch anyway
These arguments occur only because it seems hard to quantify support sets in a way that we can compare them to each other easily
(except ta and traps
). For instance, defense is quantifiable. 45% is quite nearly an I win button in most circumstances. It's easily observable and obvious in game once you get there. Now how do you compare FF to Empathy? Whats better a defender version of thermal or Sonic? What is the quantification of status protection? Is defense the only I win button in the game? What is recharge worth? Scourge?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's all subjective. Some think I can softcap the team so it's awesome and others think that's all it does it needs to be more, and is not a fun set. And yes I have seen FF trivialize some of the games hardest content and factions. I have scrappers and blasters that have been buffed by an empath and made into a bloody handed god. I have been on a team with 2 rads, a cold, and a traps doing a khan that killed Reichman so fast that he died before 3 of the other av's had unfrozen yet. Is that safer than FF?
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I think that's Turbo's point, fyi.
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Originally Posted by Late2Party
I have been on a team with 2 rads, a cold, and a traps doing a khan that killed Reichman so fast that he died before 3 of the other av's had unfrozen yet. Is that safer than FF?
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50s: Bla- Arch/Mental Cont- Mind/FF, Earth/Cold, Ill/Therm, Earth/Rad Dominator- Plant/Psi, Elec/Earth Corr- Fire/Storm, Arch/Sonic, Rad/Kin, Beam/Sonic, Psi/Time Stalker- Elec/SR Def- Storm/Dark, Emp/Psi, Dark/Elec, FF/Arch, TA/Ice, TA/Elec, Kin/AR, Cold/DP, Traps/Psi Scrap- Fire/Shield Tanker- Dark/Mace, Ice/Kin Brute- Claws/WP, SS/Energy, BS/Elec
Bubbles will always be useful. Lamepath not so much,
Oooo aaahhh you have heal aura on auto....wow....
Oooo aaaahhh you have fortitude on two people, maybe 3....ab on one and you clear minded everyone....even the tank and scrappers who dont need it. GG dude you are a noob.
OR
Hey, not getting hit, anyone else taking damage? No? Well, keep doing what you do.
The second one will happen from 1-50.
Only stupid players think lamepathy is any good. By the time Lamepathy is decent so is everyone else.......they can take care of themselves and Lamepathy is unneeded.
You can never go wrong with more Defense.
I really don't understand why you seem to think that a ST hold is capable of completely preventing you from being mezzed. While there are not usually *too* many mezzers in a spawn, if its one of the factions that has them there is usually more than one (and that's ignoring the possibility of it being a boss). In the real world powers miss, chaotic situations are difficult to keep track of, and the foes don't always meekly follow your plan for the battle. Having bubbles means that you're likely to survive even in the (not very uncommon) situation where something goes wrong.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!