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People just want to whinge and be dumb, so let them. Take advantage of the change while they sulk and enjoy.
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Originally Posted by JusticeValkyre
Worse case, you take powers, and never turn them on. Never put the icons in your tray, and pretend you never took them.
For the life of me, I cant see how people feel this is a bad change, or a nerf. Try as I may, it just never seems like there is a loss occuring here. Looking over my toons, my main (fire/fire tank) will regain SJ, I can take acrobatics again for KB protection (which frees up like 3 slots for me) and will gain either Fire sword or Incinerate (havent decided which yet). My Shield/Fire tank gains fire sword, grant cover (for yet another Gamblers!!!) and will prob grab SJ for better travel. My 2 ill/rads will grab single slotted EMP for kicks vrs bots, and single slot Stealth and grant invis for 2 more gambler slotting. I mean the list goes on, nearly every toon of mine is improving attack chains, and or improving there recharge. Then factor in the incarnate stuff, it gets better and better! |
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with wishing for more slots. Even before the Fitness pool announcement there are a bunch of characters that I would *love* to have a few more slots for. So I'll probably have to make some tough slotting choices when I19 goes lives.
However, I do agree that it is absurd to call this an nerf in any way, or say that it's not a buff because we didn't get any more slots. Even without more slots, the ability to pick up 3 more powers--and in effect, one more power pool--is just phenomenal!
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
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3 bonus powers I avoided mainly because they didn't fit my character concept. I don't like the idea of having to pick powers just to fill slots in my build. My Corruptor's taking Leaping and Fighting pool powers because there aren't enough secondary powers that fit her concept, and I had the think carefully about those.|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
You really have a strange definition of "screwed"; the Fitness pool becoming inherent is an absolute buff to every character in the game. Nearly every character will get 3 bonus powers in their build and the ones who already skipped Fitness will get all the "drawbacks" of more endurance recovery, more regeneration and better mobility.
I'm not seeing ANY downside to this. |
I'll just have to take JusticeValkyrie's advice and never even put the 'bonus' powers in my tray.
I never said that making Fitness inherent was a nerf, or a drawback. It just creates annoying build problems for my low-level characters and any future builds I come up with.
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I repeat, that's a strange definition of "screwed". You're getting, for free, four extra powers assuming you only took 3 from the Fitness pool to begin with. How exactly is that "screwing" your character?|
Originally Posted by Seyshara
3 bonus powers I avoided mainly because they didn't fit my character concept. I don't like the idea of having to pick powers just to fill slots in my build. My Corruptor's taking Leaping and Fighting pool powers because there aren't enough secondary powers that fit her concept, and I had the think carefully about those.
I'll just have to take JusticeValkyrie's advice and never even put the 'bonus' powers in my tray. I never said that making Fitness inherent was a nerf, or a drawback. It just creates annoying build problems for my low-level characters and any future builds I come up with. |
I can't for the life of me see how this is anything other than an unmitigated buff to every character in the game. It's a clear case of something for nothing, three more powers available for you to pick up. It greatly opens up character builds and means you no longer have to "waste" three power picks in the 6-20 range in order to function allowing you to get interesting powers there instead. Let's take your Corrupter for example, aren't there powers you'd like to have taken in the low levels that you had to delay in order to fit in Stamina? Remember you're also getting an extra power pool to choose from since you won't have to use one of the four pools for Stamina. Why not snag Assault/Tactics from Leadership?
And to the people who like to whine about slots how exactly is this reducing your options any? Are you really worse off with three extra powers you never had room for before just because you can't slot them fully? Which is worse, not having the powers at all or simply having them at less potency due to slot crunch? Kind of seems like a no-brainer to me.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Plain and simple people are being greedy, people are mixing want they want over what they should get.
The devs give us inherent fitness and that somehow translates into requiring to fully slot out the replacement powers.
Asking for something is fine, demanding something because this change is going to cause problems us nonsensical.
Also, I'm sure the devs WANT people to have to make slotting choices, that's part of balance, you don't get to 5-6 slot every power you get. It's called making tradeoffs, if you underslot a power because you want more setbonuses from another or another power is more valuable, then that is your choice.
I've said many times, many of these arguements for more slots can be rewritten as "I want more set bonuses." For many builds is people werent building for set bonuses they would have enough slots for most of their powers.
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
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It isn't necessarily true that people want more slots for set bonuses; if you really, really want to add a couple more attacks and now can do so, you may want more slots just to slot them out properly.|
Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos
I've said many times, many of these arguements for more slots can be rewritten as "I want more set bonuses." For many builds is people werent building for set bonuses they would have enough slots for most of their powers.
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And even if people are slotting for set bonuses and that's why they're slot-starved, so what?
I think what's more important is the attitude people have toward the change. "It would sure be nice to have more slots" is a very different from "Making Fitness inherent is USELESS unless I get more slots!"
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
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There have been people trying to argue that inherent fitness will cause slot starvation and that the devs SHOULD give us more slots varying from 4 to monstrous 10. |
Originally Posted by Finduilas
It isn't necessarily true that people want more slots for set bonuses; if you really, really want to add a couple more attacks and now can do so, you may want more slots just to slot them out properly.
And even if people are slotting for set bonuses and that's why they're slot-starved, so what? I think what's more important is the attitude people have toward the change. "It would sure be nice to have more slots" is a very different from "Making Fitness inherent is USELESS unless I get more slots!" |
Also, "So what if people are slot starved if they go for set bonuses instead of slotting power?", that is precisely the problem, if you choose to slot for set bonuses, then you have to live with the consquenses if you slot starve some of your powers. The game isn't ATM balanced around needing IOs, the needing more slots argument will only work if there isn't enough slots to do normal content without using IOs or when/if the game slbecomes balanced around needing IOs to function.
ATM people have been doing fine without IOs OR the three extra powers gained from inherent fitness, when that changes then people might have a decent argument for needing more slots.
Also the word need vs want is very important, both have been used in the conversations about the topic, my responses are regarding the "need more slots argument". I myself would want more slots but I dont 'need' them to function with the update.
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
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I'll agree with this, while I would welcome more slots I hardly think of it as a "NEED". On many of my builds I'd like to have a couple of additional slots but I can work around the limitation. On the other hand, TEN more slots??? That really sounds like massive overkill... the only characters who could put that many to any decent use would be tri-form Kelds.|
Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos
There have been people trying to argue that inherent fitness will cause slot starvation and that the devs SHOULD give us more slots varying from 4 to monstrous 10.
Also, "So what if people are slot starved if they go for set bonuses instead of slotting power?", that is precisely the problem, if you choose to slot for set bonuses, then you have to live with the consquenses if you slot starve some of your powers. The game isn't ATM balanced around needing IOs, the needing more slots argument will only work if there isn't enough slots to do normal content without using IOs or when/if the game slbecomes balanced around needing IOs to function. ATM people have been doing fine without IOs OR the three extra powers gained from inherent fitness, when that changes then people might have a decent argument for needing more slots. Also the word need vs want is very important, both have been used in the conversations about the topic, my responses are regarding the "need more slots argument". I myself would want more slots but I dont 'need' them to function with the update. |
This free Fitness coming practically out of the blue is enough of a buff that I don't have any desire to complain about a minor issue of slots.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Yes, and I don't agree with that. (Though I also don't know why 10 slots would be "monstrous".)|
Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos
There have been people trying to argue that inherent fitness will cause slot starvation and that the devs SHOULD give us more slots varying from 4 to monstrous 10.
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| Also, "So what if people are slot starved if they go for set bonuses instead of slotting power?", that is precisely the problem, if you choose to slot for set bonuses, then you have to live with the consquenses if you slot starve some of your powers. The game isn't ATM balanced around needing IOs, the needing more slots argument will only work if there isn't enough slots to do normal content without using IOs or when/if the game slbecomes balanced around needing IOs to function. |
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| Also the word need vs want is very important, both have been used in the conversations about the topic, my responses are regarding the "need more slots argument". I myself would want more slots but I dont 'need' them to function with the update. |
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Ive been playing with a lot of potential builds for lots of different ATs and so far I haven't really come accross any builds that have caused me any problems in terms of lack of slots or concept.
The main benefit I have found is bringing forward powers which I was 'forced' to put off because of Fitness. The levels where I end up taking the extra powers are at levels 22, 24 and 30.
I am finding myself taking Aim/Build Up type powers on toons where damage isn't the main focus (e.g. Tanks and Defenders). In a similar vein I have now started taking God Mode powers which I would have previously skipped for greater survivability in general (e.g. taking Tough/Weave).
I also tend to take Recall Friend a lot as well - which you can explain in loads of ways including it just being magic or an upgrade to the Medi-Port system which everyone has access to.
Ive also taken Travel powers on toons which couldn't fit them in before.
I also find Combat Jumping a good power to take which isn't concept breaking. Particularly if you are already taking Swift and/or Hurdle in Fitness.
Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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Originally Posted by Seyshara
3 bonus powers I avoided mainly because they didn't fit my character concept. I don't like the idea of having to pick powers just to fill slots in my build. My Corruptor's taking Leaping and Fighting pool powers because there aren't enough secondary powers that fit her concept, and I had the think carefully about those.
I'll just have to take JusticeValkyrie's advice and never even put the 'bonus' powers in my tray. I never said that making Fitness inherent was a nerf, or a drawback. It just creates annoying build problems for my low-level characters and any future builds I come up with. |
Wow, just wow.
I can not think of a single down side to receiving fitness for nothing. Everyone of my toons will become even more of a super hero/villain with the additions.
YMMV---IMO
Ice Ember
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Your character concept is "grossly overweight and unfit superhero" on every single character?|
Originally Posted by Seyshara
3 bonus powers I avoided mainly because they didn't fit my character concept.
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Your character concept involves not being able to sustain an attack for more than a minute?
Seriously?
Yes... the use of "build problem" is quite strange. I can hear that for trying to fit more powers in, or more bonuses, or something like that. But having build problems for low level characters due to inherent Fitness? No. They are four powers that your low level character does not have to pick, nor even slot if you do not want. That's not a build problem, that's an inherent power ability, and is a buff compared to what we have now. Calling it a build problem is blatant misuse of what those words mean.
I could possibly accept the argument of people not wanting to jump faster or slower, but... they'll get used to it. You move different in other games, you'll get used to how you move here. It's not like we're talking inherent speed boost here, either.
I pretty much am making no new characters until I19, even though I have a few ideas I'd like to make. I still have one Praetorian pre-20, and I love the content, but not having Stamina does make him more of a pain. I figured I should just skip that feeling and wait on making any new characters.
All these anti new Fitness posts are really depressing. I actually was wondering if the Devs had goofed and it was too much of a boost when we first heard about it.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
It blows my mind that anyone even has a problem with this.
People will kvetch and moan about anything, I guess.
Also...
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*takes off in his roflcopter*
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Originally Posted by Seyshara
3 bonus powers I avoided mainly because they didn't fit my character concept. I don't like the idea of having to pick powers just to fill slots in my build. My Corruptor's taking Leaping and Fighting pool powers because there aren't enough secondary powers that fit her concept, and I had the think carefully about those.
I'll just have to take JusticeValkyrie's advice and never even put the 'bonus' powers in my tray. I never said that making Fitness inherent was a nerf, or a drawback. It just creates annoying build problems for my low-level characters and any future builds I come up with. |
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Is there room for another in the roflcopter before it takes off?
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Originally Posted by Seyshara
My Tanker (and in fact all my characters except the two Kheldians) would be screwed with this.
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*reaches out dramatically from the door of the roflcopter* YOU CAN MAKE IT. JUMP.
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Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
Is there room for another in the roflcopter before it takes off?
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*jumps towards the roflcopter*
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Okay, all roflcopter jokes aside, it occurs to me that there are people out there, likely RP'ers, who really don't want certain powers, and certainly there are ppl who would take slots over power selections. So, just as a though experiment (cuz this will never, ever fly w/the devs, except in a roflcopter), how about offering us slots *or* powers at lvl 49, maybe 47 & 44 as well?|
Originally Posted by Seyshara
My Tanker (and in fact all my characters except the two Kheldians) would be screwed with this. I only took Hurdle and Hand Clap because there wasn't ANYTHING in any of the other pools that fit my original concept. (Technically, the Super Speed doesn't really fit either, but I like being able to get around) Fortunately, most of them already have Stamina, and I don't intend to respec any time soon anyway. One or two had Hurdle planned (for the same reason as my Tanker) which might cause problems, but I can probably adapt.
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These are your epic levels. You should be able to customize your epic toons a bit more than normal, so how about a choice at each of those power levels? 2 or 3 slots, or an extra power pick. Potential to be unbalancing for certain power combos, so I'm actually thinking just the 49 spot, so you can give up one power selection for 2 or 3 extra slots.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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+1 internets.
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Originally Posted by dave_p
cuz this will never, ever fly w/the devs, except in a roflcopter,
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No worries.... Johnny often makes sense, he's not always right mind you but he certainly makes sense. Most especially when I agree with him! |
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
I find myself agreeing with Johnny a lot in this post.
I'm scared.  |
^
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
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I can agree with the original sentiment here. The issue is not "I have characters whose concept calls for them to be overweight and unfit" (although they certainly could be, if we had models that matched that) but "I have characters that ARE physically fit, and devote time and effort to it". It concerns me to have a character whose concept revolves around him being at the peak of human physical condition, and have him be able to run, jump, heal and recover his "second wind" no faster than my "ordinary" characters. |
Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
Your character concept is "grossly overweight and unfit superhero" on every single character?
Your character concept involves not being able to sustain an attack for more than a minute? Seriously? |
On the other hand, it is no big leap for me to turn this from, "I take this power for my physically fit characters" to "I three slot this power for my physically fit characters". My fit characters are the ones that MAKE USE of Fitness, the others just stick with the default slot and put the slots in something else.
And I have to admit that when I take Fitness, I DO use it. I never take Stamina without intending to at least two slot it. I have a character that has three slotted Hurdle. (As well as Health and Stamina. That to me is the "peak of human condition", 3 slots in each) So it's no real stretch to me to say my characters that don't have Stamina will just have 1 slotted Stamina. They are superheroes, after all, their "fitness" can come from their powers if not from training.
I suppose what I'm saying is that I'm fine with this if I can still slot it. There's still enough differentiation in the number of slots I put in a power, and I can choose NOT to slot it, although I doubt I ever will. (I find it hard not to slot Brawl, even when I don't use it. I suppose I can do like I usually do with Brawl, and drop a level 5 or 10 IO in it and forget about it...)
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I've always thought that a better solution to the endurance pre-20 problem would be to increase base recovery rate for all characters, and possibly lower the bonus granted by Stamina (or keep it the same, if it would remain in balance).
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
I can agree with the original sentiment here. The issue is not "I have characters whose concept calls for them to be overweight and unfit" (although they certainly could be, if we had models that matched that) but "I have characters that ARE physically fit, and devote time and effort to it". It concerns me to have a character whose concept revolves around him being at the peak of human physical condition, and have him be able to run, jump, heal and recover his "second wind" no faster than my "ordinary" characters.
On the other hand, it is no big leap for me to turn this from, "I take this power for my physically fit characters" to "I three slot this power for my physically fit characters". My fit characters are the ones that MAKE USE of Fitness, the others just stick with the default slot and put the slots in something else. And I have to admit that when I take Fitness, I DO use it. I never take Stamina without intending to at least two slot it. I have a character that has three slotted Hurdle. (As well as Health and Stamina. That to me is the "peak of human condition", 3 slots in each) So it's no real stretch to me to say my characters that don't have Stamina will just have 1 slotted Stamina. They are superheroes, after all, their "fitness" can come from their powers if not from training. I suppose what I'm saying is that I'm fine with this if I can still slot it. There's still enough differentiation in the number of slots I put in a power, and I can choose NOT to slot it, although I doubt I ever will. (I find it hard not to slot Brawl, even when I don't use it. I suppose I can do like I usually do with Brawl, and drop a level 5 or 10 IO in it and forget about it...) |
ok so figuring out on my fire/fire im thinking since i dont have taunt atm on my tank ill pick up taunt,temp pro and rotp..course only one slot them all...cause really..i got no slots to use..but still itll be nice to have taunt back!
I guess I'm going to have to rush my Praetorians to level 20 and pick up Stamina before i19, in case the new pools don't suit them.
(As an aside, none of my characters has more than the initial slot in any fitness powers, so that means I would have absolutely no slots spare for any other power I might decide to take)
For the life of me, I cant see how people feel this is a bad change, or a nerf. Try as I may, it just never seems like there is a loss occuring here. Looking over my toons, my main (fire/fire tank) will regain SJ, I can take acrobatics again for KB protection (which frees up like 3 slots for me) and will gain either Fire sword or Incinerate (havent decided which yet). My Shield/Fire tank gains fire sword, grant cover (for yet another Gamblers!!!) and will prob grab SJ for better travel. My 2 ill/rads will grab single slotted EMP for kicks vrs bots, and single slot Stealth and grant invis for 2 more gambler slotting. I mean the list goes on, nearly every toon of mine is improving attack chains, and or improving there recharge. Then factor in the incarnate stuff, it gets better and better!