Ok, Tanks, how will I change thee...
Elec/Fire: Hasten, Superspeed, Fire Sword. Health & Stamina only get a second slot (so I can slot up hasten), and all those slots I dropped on Boxing (build was so tight I actually used it as an attack) go to Fire Sword.
Shield/Mace: Aid Other, Aid Self, Jawbreaker.
Fire/Dual Blades: (Only in 20s as is) Taunt Aura, more Slashy-slashy. 
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The situation isn't so much not worth enhancing but rather that the benefits of using the default enhancement slot are less than if that slot could be placed elsewhere.|
Originally Posted by abnormal_joe
"If you don't want to slot a power at all, even its default slot, why did you take it? I can't imagine why you'd use a power in such a state or that you couldn't find one aspect worth enhancing."
The question of a power being "worth slotting" is highly subjective. Maybe base stats on stamina is sufficient recovery for my tank to do what I want. Or put another way tons of folks take combat jumping for the immob protection and combat movement, but I have yet to see someone recommend ED capping the jump or defense components. Ice patch is another example, it works fine unslotted, why not use the base slot somewhere else? |
Some examples of where I wouldn't care if I lost a default slot:
Taunt, travel powers, minor resist passives (rpd, permafrost, etc), wet ice, phalanx fighting, grant cover, health, rez powers, aim, speed boost, increase density, force bolt, stealth, vengeance, mastermind pet upgrades, gale, bonfire, and quicksand. I could probably come up with a dozen more if I looked through my characters, and all those are powers I'd pick not because they are a prerequisite to another power, except perhaps gale.
Then, it's not just the ability to move that default enhancement, but also to postpone it. That would allow me to use enhancements in more efficient locations at low levels where enhancements are at a premium and then later add a few enhancements to the powers that don't need it as much.
I often make use of slotting those powers late in a build or when I get around to pursuing set bonuses, but it isn't strictly a utility that makes sense due to forced prerequisites, though there is the advantage there as well.
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Well, this isn't a statistical analysis, but I've seen several who are essentially looking a gift horse in the mouth because this doesn't come with extra slots. It ranged from "please?" to "omg this sucks". I had to edit my signature specifically for this level of whining.|
Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos
People want their cake and get the bakery for free as well.
Edit: I'm sure that many peoples statements about wanting more slots can be reworded as, "I want more set bonuses". Not everyone, but I'm sure lot of people. |
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Originally Posted by O_MegaMan
I'm a little concerned about this as well. My initial reaction was "Yay! Three more powers." However, unless we get additional enhancement slots, I'm not certain how beneficial those extra powers will be.
... A one slotted damage power? A hold? Defense? It seems that with only one slot available most choices are going to be underwhelming at best. |
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Originally Posted by Weatherwoman
My only problem with inherent fitness is that we won't get any extra slots for the powers that we have to take in their place, so they will end up being unused dummy powers. Incarnate levels has a *chance* to fix this. I just think that dispersing the enhancement slots we have is already hard enough without adding even more powers to the mix.
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Originally Posted by Sole_Savior
But so far from what I'm seeing it looks nice. I mean, the whole force-respecing everyone's characters will no doubt be annoying and then the issue of the three powers to choose and pitiful amount of slots they'd be letting us put into those three powers isn't really ideal. But if it must be done then okay. I won't complain about being given stamina for free
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Originally Posted by Sole_Savior
If I'm going to grab fireball on my scrapper, is it really worth the one slot that is going to be allowed? Not the slightest. Or if a character is going to grab Aid Self, is it worth only having one enhancement in it? Sure, having the power itself can prove beneficial but the beneficial gain is less the negligible.
If it is a concept thing to pick up Phase Shift, then by all means, go for whatever makes you happy. But that doesn't mean the entire playerbase should be forced into having powers that pretty much won't help the character out much. Slots are there for a reason, and not being able to add any to these moves is a little upsetting. |
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Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
I'd like to maybe see (in the future at some point), an option for lvl 49 (47 too maybe) where you can choose a power or 3 more enhancement slots. Obviously you can't do more than 6 slots in a single power but...would be nice at some point on some characters to have more slots than a power you may never use.
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Originally Posted by Eisenzahn
Sooo... since all characters are now going to have several more powers than they used to (Either they didn't have Fitness, and are getting it all now, or they did and will be switching it for something else)... more slots, maybe? Please?.
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Originally Posted by ArwenDarkblade
So are we getting more slots so we can slot the three powers we're going to take instead of these? Because if not, then making them inherent really doesn't change anything.
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Originally Posted by Kheldarn
Aye. If we don't get extra slots, it's going to make already tight builds tighter.
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Originally Posted by Kheldarn
My builds take Swift, Health, and Stamina. I use 4 slots on Health and Stamina. With them as Slottable Inherants, I will still be using those 4 slots. That means I'll have 4 less slots to use on Primary, Secondary, Pool, and Ancillary Powers.
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Aaaaand that's about where I stopped reading that thread.
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Well the fact is, we are allowed X number of powers by level 50 and are given Y number extra of slots to put in them. It's not unreasonable to assume that originally the devs determined Y based on the value of X.|
Originally Posted by Dersk
Well, this isn't a statistical analysis, but I've seen several who are essentially looking a gift horse in the mouth because this doesn't come with extra slots. It ranged from "please?" to "omg this sucks". I had to edit my signature specifically for this level of whining.
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Now X has changed, increased by four. A case can be made for increasing Y to follow suit and I don't think asking for it should be out of the question. I've already stated I think 3-4 more slots by 50 would be plenty, but I'm not holding my breath or waiting on them.
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Considering the fact that they are making fitness inherent, I feel that it's probably safe to say that what the original devs had in mind means exactly nothing these days.
EDIT: Also, moot point since we're apparently getting more slots with the incarnate stuff.
Be well, people of CoH.
It's all win getting Fitness as inherent. At the very least, folks can now pick up three picks for a LoTG +7.5 mule from the Concealment pool for an easy 22.5% free recharge bonus.
For those wanting extra slots, I can see why they are concerned but I think this is where the Incarnate slots will come in as many have noted. If the DEVs are feeling extra generous and the pleadings of those wanting more slots are loud enough, I could see them saying you get three slots for your "Slot Levels" in the SECOND half of the game. Thus, since the second half starts with the Level26 power pick, the slots at 27 and 29 would get three rather than two, for an increase of two slots. That is the MOST I would ever consider.
Any point at which to start the three slots is arbitrary, and the splitting of the career of a toon into halves seems to have a symmetry I find attractive as the first half and second half of a power progression of a superhero. Thematically and conceptually I like it, but I won't delude myself into expecting it to happen.
Cheers
[B] GUARDIAN 50s:[/B] [B]Tank[/B]: Ice/Fire, Fire/Fire, DA/SS, Inv/WM, SD/Elec...[B]Scrap[/B]: BS/Reg, Spin/DA, DM/SD, Fire/WP, Claws/SR....[B]Troller[/B]: Ill/Rad, Fire/Kin...[B]Blaster[/B]: Fire/EM....[B]Defender[/B]: D3...[B]Brute[/B]: Elm/ElA...[B]EPIC[/B]: Widow, PB, Crab...CURRENTLY: 45 Stone/Stone Tank...38 AR/Rad Corr...21 Ice^3 Dom
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Not really, and you know it. The Alpha slot will allow players to squeeze a slot from some select powers like Hasten. But for the most part, what it grants you isn't the same as more slots. Beyond that, the other four Incarnate slots shown to date do not function like the Alpha at all. They are less like slots and more like standalone, upgradable powers. Beyond that, nobody knows but the devs. It wouldn't be a streatch to conjecture the Omega slot would function similarly to the Alpha slot, but it's simply not truthful based on the available facts to say that the Incarnate system will give you more power slots.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Also, moot point since we're apparently getting more slots with the incarnate stuff.
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I think people should take a few minutes to dig up and read the information that has surfaced about the Incarnate system to get a better idea about what it's all about. It doesn't work the way some people think it does and I don't think anybody should be putting all their eggs in that basket until they have a clearer picture of what's to come.
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I'm not talking about the alpha slot. I'm talking about extra slots coming from one of the other 9 incarnate groups.
Best not to attempt to correct someone when you aren't on the same page that they are.
The devs have alluded to extra slots being part of the incarnate system. Yes, they could have tossed that away. In which case I'll state that I see no reason for extra slots due to fitness going inherent.
Be well, people of CoH.
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The four Incarnate slots besides Alpha that were revealed did not come with extra slots in my observation.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I'm not talking about the alpha slot. I'm talking about extra slots coming from one of the other 9 incarnate groups.
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| Best not to attempt to correct someone when you aren't on the same page that they are. |
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Then its entirely possible that any mention of extra slots by the devs were being based on the alpha slot which they might be considering a "universal slot." As it does grant extra enhancement to all powers.| The four Incarnate slots that were revealed did not come with extra slots in my observation. |
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| If you have information beyond the first five slots and it didn't come from the GR beta, it's in your best interests to stop talking about it. |
Regardless, it doesn't make the case for suddenly needing more slots. No character in this game is going to become less powerful because fitness is being made inherent. There is no nerf to correct with a balance move of any sort. We are all being given the ability to choose an extra power pool that were aren't able to at the moment.
Just because someone doesn't like that builds are going to be more slot starved than they are now means nothing.
Be well, people of CoH.
Well, my SD/SS tank will be able to pick up Combat Jumping give some vertical movment (Super Speed user) and Aid Other/Self while my Inv/SS Tank might take a Leadership or get Super Speed as a travel power. My Will/SS meanwhile (I like SS, can you tell?) can take elements in the Fighting Pool (Like Tough) and my Inv/Fire can get all her attacks, and maybe a nice Leadership ability or two.
People who are seriously complaining about this ought to be tarred and feathered as one of 'those people'. You know who they are. The ones who complain to the council that street signs are 1 inch too high and outside of regulation.
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Well, I don't know if I would go that far. I think you can logically argue for a few more slots with inherent stamina without being a whiner. However, some people are acting like inherent fitness is a nerf or something, and extra slots is the only way for the devs to rectify their mistake. |
Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
People who are seriously complaining about this ought to be tarred and feathered as one of 'those people'. You know who they are. The ones who complain to the council that street signs are 1 inch too high and outside of regulation.
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Such logic baffles me. I wish I had inherent Fitness now for all my characters under twenty. And I want it now on my higher level characters, as I think about the powers I could have now if I wasn't wasting three picks on Fitness. Fitness as an inherent is a buff, so if anyone is going to argue for more slots, they need to do so logically... not in hurt tones or with Bill Murray at his most annoying as Bob. Heh.
Already said that I think we aren't getting any more slots earlier, but I'll say it again. We're still getting three extra power picks and the incarnate system is coming. With that bonus and a new system coming down the pike to buff our toons further, looking for yet another buff seems... iffy to me. I'll love it if it happens, mind, but I doubt it.
One other thing on slotting... depending on your build, you may be picking up extra slots with inherent fitness. I'm planning on picking up Teleport Friend on my Fire/Fire build, which means one slot I was using for a Winter's Gift Slow Resist will be put there, and I have a slot to put somewhere else! Might not seem like much, but this build is extremely tight, and I keep having fun debating where I should put the slot. Scorch? My ancillary hold that sadly has one slot? A different ancillary power I can pick up? It really does feel nice to have another slot to put somewhere.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
With taking Recall/TP/Hasten, I might simply drop the 4-IOs in Stamina to 2 generic IO slots, lose the slot bonus but be able to 3-slot Hasten as a result.
That way, the increased DPS and increased End recovery is going to outweigh the loss of the set bonuses.
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I couldnt agree more! Moving fitness to inherent is a buff, plain and simple. I have over 10 50's, everyone of them will be better after this change.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Then its entirely possible that any mention of extra slots by the devs were being based on the alpha slot which they might be considering a "universal slot." As it does grant extra enhancement to all powers.
I'm going off of past developer statements. I don't get insider info and would never share it if I did. Regardless, it doesn't make the case for suddenly needing more slots. No character in this game is going to become less powerful because fitness is being made inherent. There is no nerf to correct with a balance move of any sort. We are all being given the ability to choose an extra power pool that were aren't able to at the moment. Just because someone doesn't like that builds are going to be more slot starved than they are now means nothing. |
I cant see the devs giving us more slots, and in many ways I hope they dont, you might ask why I say this. I know with IOs, Incarnate system, and all the "packs" you can pickup, toons are getting to be more and more powerful, some bypassing where they were prior to ED. If it continues this way, they will have to make another round of global nerfs, I dont want to see that happen again! ED drove me from the game, thanks to the Devs listening to the customers finally, they made changes to put those dark days behind us. I am really enjoying the game again, GR couldnt of been any better and was worth every penny. NO, I am not a fanboi, but I have no problem patting the backs of people that do things right, and right now, that thanks goes to Castle and his team.
My Tanker (and in fact all my characters except the two Kheldians) would be screwed with this. I only took Hurdle and Hand Clap because there wasn't ANYTHING in any of the other pools that fit my original concept. (Technically, the Super Speed doesn't really fit either, but I like being able to get around) Fortunately, most of them already have Stamina, and I don't intend to respec any time soon anyway. One or two had Hurdle planned (for the same reason as my Tanker) which might cause problems, but I can probably adapt.
I guess I'm going to have to rush my Praetorians to level 20 and pick up Stamina before i19, in case the new pools don't suit them.
(As an aside, none of my characters has more than the initial slot in any fitness powers, so that means I would have absolutely no slots spare for any other power I might decide to take)
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Originally Posted by Seyshara
My Tanker (and in fact all my characters except the two Kheldians) would be screwed with this. I only took Hurdle and Hand Clap because there wasn't ANYTHING in any of the other pools that fit my original concept. (Technically, the Super Speed doesn't really fit either, but I like being able to get around) Fortunately, most of them already have Stamina, and I don't intend to respec any time soon anyway. One or two had Hurdle planned (for the same reason as my Tanker) which might cause problems, but I can probably adapt.
I guess I'm going to have to rush my Praetorians to level 20 and pick up Stamina before i19, in case the new pools don't suit them. (As an aside, none of my characters has more than the initial slot in any fitness powers, so that means I would have absolutely no slots spare for any other power I might decide to take) |
You really have a strange definition of "screwed"; the Fitness pool becoming inherent is an absolute buff to every character in the game. Nearly every character will get 3 bonus powers in their build and the ones who already skipped Fitness will get all the "drawbacks" of more endurance recovery, more regeneration and better mobility.
I'm not seeing ANY downside to this.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Simple, don't respec it in.
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Originally Posted by Seyshara
My Tanker (and in fact all my characters except the two Kheldians) would be screwed with this. I only took Hurdle and Hand Clap because there wasn't ANYTHING in any of the other pools that fit my original concept. (Technically, the Super Speed doesn't really fit either, but I like being able to get around) Fortunately, most of them already have Stamina, and I don't intend to respec any time soon anyway. One or two had Hurdle planned (for the same reason as my Tanker) which might cause problems, but I can probably adapt.
I guess I'm going to have to rush my Praetorians to level 20 and pick up Stamina before i19, in case the new pools don't suit them. (As an aside, none of my characters has more than the initial slot in any fitness powers, so that means I would have absolutely no slots spare for any other power I might decide to take) |
It occurs to me that one nice use for taking a power that you don't have a lot of slots available for is for Shield Tanks to move Grant Cover earlier. People usually put 1-3 slots in it at most, and a lot of builds take it late just for the defense debuff resistance. Now we can take it pretty early (it's in our primary!) without giving up much, and get the DDR but also be a little bit more supportive of teammates.
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Giving players access to more powers but not more slots seems fundamentally flawed. If it were up to me, I'd add slots to the fitness pool at various levels instead of giving players more slots to use anywhere directly.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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Ill say it again, player do not need more opportunities to slot set bonuses.|
Originally Posted by Lohenien
Giving players access to more powers but not more slots seems fundamentally flawed. If it were up to me, I'd add slots to the fitness pool at various levels instead of giving players more slots to use anywhere directly.
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And inherent fitness is not designed to be a power boost to anyone, so stop asking it to be.
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
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This is silly. I can't believe how many people complain about such a great change with NO DOWNSIDE.|
Originally Posted by Lohenien
Giving players access to more powers but not more slots seems fundamentally flawed. If it were up to me, I'd add slots to the fitness pool at various levels instead of giving players more slots to use anywhere directly.
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Powers without slots can be used for situational powers or to provide small improvements. Most players currently skip a rez power that may be in your powerset -- now you can take it and slot it with a single recharge. Take Combat Jumping with a single Defense enhancement for a small buff on your Defense and greater mobility while jumping (and Immob protection if you need it). For Fire and Dark tanks, you can fit in Acrobatics without giving up another important power. Take Recall Friend, Stimulant, Aid Other or a number of other powers to help with teaming. Want to be able to stealth a mission every now and then? Take Super Speed and throw a stealth IO in it. Heck, take Teleport Foe just for the fun of it.
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What are you talking about? Can't you see free Fitness is going to force me to take on new toggle powers that will require yet more endurance! Double (free) Stamina's effects and give me like 10 more slots or this change sucks! |
Originally Posted by Local_Man
This is silly. I can't believe how many people complain about such a great change with NO DOWNSIDE.
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An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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Funny or scarily enough, there was a point in this very thread where people were asking for up to 10 slots along with inherent fitness.
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Originally Posted by dave_p
What are you talking about? Can't you see free Fitness is going to force me to take on new toggle powers that will require yet more endurance! Double (free) Stamina's effects and give me like 10 more slots or this change sucks!
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"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
The question of a power being "worth slotting" is highly subjective. Maybe base stats on stamina is sufficient recovery for my tank to do what I want.
Or put another way tons of folks take combat jumping for the immob protection and combat movement, but I have yet to see someone recommend ED capping the jump or defense components.
Ice patch is another example, it works fine unslotted, why not use the base slot somewhere else?
Edit: I'm sure that many peoples statements about wanting more slots can be reworded as, "I want more set bonuses". Not everyone, but I'm sure lot of people.
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel