And this is why we can't have nice things
By
Agonus,
Posted on: 2010-09-03 14:51 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
I don't know if it was mentioned before but the reason I personally no longer go to movies based on the "geek" stuff I love is because I have grown sick and tired of seeing my favorite stories bent over a chair and brutally sodomized by the "director's" (See also Hollywood) vision of what it should be.
Plots that are changed or don't make sense from what was originally written.
Beloved characters that are dropped, or changed drastically so they are no longer recognizable.
New "important" characters added that never existed in the original story.
Important things that were in the original work that never make it into the movie for various reasons.
Actors that are totally inappropriate for the part get cast for parts because their names will draw in people at the box office.
Michael Bay, nuff said there.
I have better things to spend my money on. Like a sub for this game.
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Yeah I hated when they did that to Transformers back in 1986 too.
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Plots that are changed or don't make sense from what was originally written. Beloved characters that are dropped, or changed drastically so they are no longer recognizable. New "important" characters added that never existed in the original story. Important things that were in the original work that never make it into the movie for various reasons. Actors that are totally inappropriate for the part get cast for parts because their names will draw in people at the box office. |
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Eh, neither of the Wonkas are exactly true to the book, but Wilder's is much better, in my opinion. Depp's was unfunny and had the air of a child molester. Wilder's was nutty, but usually in a way that you could like/relate to.|
Originally Posted by NinjaPirate
I suspect that, if folks think about it, they aren't necessarily liking one film over the other, its that they like Gene Wilder better than Johnny Depp.
I personally like the subtle air of malevolence Wilder put into his performance, even if it wasn't true to the book. He's just fun to watch. |
Overall, it's a better film as well. I have no clue why Wonka's father was included with the Depp film, and Wilder's character is better enough that I think he makes the movie.
I do recall seeing a cable special where the director or producer of the earlier film mentioned that the script Dahl gave them just didn't work for a movie (he even added that he though Dahl was a very good book writer, just not a good script write), and so they changed it. I've always been curious to see if that evaluation was correct or not. Still, I would have to say that the earlier movie still feels more like the book than the newer one, even if both made deviations from it.
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Doesn't count since it was continuation rather than an adaptation. Unlike the recent live-action abominations.
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Originally Posted by Lastjustice
Yeah I hated when they did that to Transformers back in 1986 too.
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Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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A good example of what I'm talking about. Sometimes I swear I think I'm going to explode in a Lewis Black rage of explicatives demanding explanations for what I'm seeing on the screen. And rages like that are best done at home and not in public.
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Originally Posted by Lastjustice
Yeah I hated when they did that to Transformers back in 1986 too.
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No it's an offender of almost everything he said actually. It sure as heck counts.|
Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer
Doesn't count since it was continuation rather than an adaptation. Unlike the recent live-action abominations.
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| Plots that are changed or don't make sense from what was originally written. |
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| Beloved characters that are dropped, or changed drastically so they are no longer recognizable.New "important" characters added that never existed in the original story. |
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| Important things that were in the original work that never make it into the movie for various reasons. |
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| Actors that are totally inappropriate for the part get cast for parts because their names will draw in people at the box office. |
See everything he said easily fit into that movie as well. The new films commited no sins that weren't done before. Transformers changes every so often period as it's reinvented itself more times than Madonna. Anyone who think oh my childhood just isn't paying attention to what's gone on since G1 to the present. (beast wars /machine, Robot in disguise , Unicron Trilogy, animated, the live action movies, and Transformer:Prime coming out soon.) You don't like the current batch just wait till the season changes.
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you know, i can grok that you didnt like the '86 film. but really, we're going to pick on the fact they actually had known actors doing the voices and DIDNT use them for the cartoon series afterwards? at the time, there was no way the series would have had the budget to keep those folks on payroll. |
Originally Posted by Lastjustice
They tossed a bunch of different actors who did the 86 film that didn't really fit. Like Spock doing Galvatron just doesn't work for me. Then they dropped all of them soon as the movie ended.
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also lets be honest, the series was ALWAYS about giant robots fighting it out. that they 'transformed' wasn't so much an integral story point as it was the selling point for the toys they were pushing.
By the way, I finally made a trek to somewhere where Scott Pilgrim was still playing, and I must say that it was worth it. Its cast is excellent all around, and even if you don't like Michael Cera - I thought he gave a much better performance as Scott Pilgrim than the trailers suggested - you do get to see him punched a lot. The slacker atmosphere is well done (unsurprisingly, coming from the director of Spaced). The fight scenes are superb, and those who choose only to rent it won't see their full impact on the small screen. The movie's only real drawback is that as a compression of a six-issue graphic novel series, it often feels like has to skim the source material, whether or not you're familiar with it.
In short, the geeks who have stayed inexplicably away don't know what they're missing. I'd definitely like to see it again ... if it were playing in an accessible location.
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It was more to argue that every point made was applicable to that movie as well as the newer ones than to nerdrage over those details.(which I went on to say that pretty much happened with every new series.) Proving a point was all I was up to heh. I'm not going bother debating anything else about it besides that.
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Originally Posted by Veritech
you know, i can grok that you didnt like the '86 film. but really, we're going to pick on the fact they actually had known actors doing the voices and DIDNT use them for the cartoon series afterwards? at the time, there was no way the series would have had the budget to keep those folks on payroll.
also lets be honest, the series was ALWAYS about giant robots fighting it out. that they 'transformed' wasn't so much an integral story point as it was the selling point for the toys they were pushing. |
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Glad you got out and liked it.|
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
By the way, I finally made a trek to somewhere where Scott Pilgrim was still playing, and I must say that it was worth it. Its cast is excellent all around, and even if you don't like Michael Cera - I thought he gave a much better performance as Scott Pilgrim than the trailers suggested - you do get to see him punched a lot. The slacker atmosphere is well done (unsurprisingly, coming from the director of Spaced). The fight scenes are superb, and those who choose only to rent it won't see their full impact on the small screen. The movie's only real drawback is that as a compression of a six-issue graphic novel series, it often feels like has to skim the source material, whether or not you're familiar with it.
In short, the geeks who have stayed inexplicably away don't know what they're missing. I'd definitely like to see it again ... if it were playing in an accessible location. |
The DVD/Blu-Ray has a date already - November 9th.
Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.
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Good lord, that's just barely under a three-month turnaround from theaters to DVD. The Expendables probably won't be out until December, and even that's for the Christmas release.|
Originally Posted by ChrisMoses
The DVD/Blu-Ray has a date already - November 9th.
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Meanwhile, the marginally good news for SPvtW for this weekend is that it earned slightly more than the special re-release of the latest Twilight movie that was timed to (I wish I were making this up) coincide with the heroine's fictional birthday.
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In an animated show voice actors are very important to the characters. Changing them changes the character. Shrek wouldn't be Shrek if he suddenly sounded like Kermit the Frog. Vader wouldn't be Vader if he suddenly sounded like Sylvester Stallone.
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Originally Posted by Veritech
you know, i can grok that you didnt like the '86 film. but really, we're going to pick on the fact they actually had known actors doing the voices and DIDNT use them for the cartoon series afterwards? at the time, there was no way the series would have had the budget to keep those folks on payroll.
also lets be honest, the series was ALWAYS about giant robots fighting it out. that they 'transformed' wasn't so much an integral story point as it was the selling point for the toys they were pushing. |
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Wrong, sir!|
Originally Posted by Vox Populi
A movie isn't better just because it's faithful to the source. Someone could make a more faithful version of Wizard of Oz, but I doubt it will be as good as the 1939 classic. Kubrick's The Shining was much better and more interesting than the faithful TV version.
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You get nothing!!!
YOU LOSE!!!
Good day, sir!
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partially, it also depends on how the character is written. a different person in the role doesn't radically change who the character is, just how the character is interpreted. it's no different than when another actor takes over one role from another actor. sure, Keaton, Bale and Conroy all played him differently, but he was still Batman. Also there weren't that many jarring changes of the voice cast from the movie back to the cartoon series.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
In an animated show voice actors are very important to the characters. Changing them changes the character. Shrek wouldn't be Shrek if he suddenly sounded like Kermit the Frog. Vader wouldn't be Vader if he suddenly sounded like Sylvester Stallone.
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Hi ho, Shrek the Ogre here.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
In an animated show voice actors are very important to the characters. Changing them changes the character. Shrek wouldn't be Shrek if he suddenly sounded like Kermit the Frog. Vader wouldn't be Vader if he suddenly sounded like Sylvester Stallone.
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Yo Padme!
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Originally Posted by ChrisMoses
Someone had PM'd me earlier in the day asking to change. I don't understand it, but they were nice enough.
[...] It was indeed awesome. Two people complained it was distracting and annoying. I'll never understand the presumption of others that they can dictate what is presented in a public forum, barring that it meets accepted forum technical parameters. Regardless, I was asked nicely enough, and the "animated signature wars" is not the rock I want to die on. But I do need something better. Maybe one of you guys can help me. GIANT IMAGE ALERT.  I need that shrunk down to signature size. I only have MS Paint available to me at work, and opening it in that causes it to lose the transparent background and replacing it with an ugly white thing. Can anyone help? There is a Yeti-sized hole in my heart/signature at the moment. Edit: NEVER MIND! |
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Originally Posted by ChrisMoses
Hmm. Test?
Edit: I guess the board software auto-resizes it. Still slightly too big, but I can handle if everyone else can (which is the real worry, apparently.  ) |
This time to a Mod. It's *slightly* too big.
"Signature Images are allowed, however they must be limited to 600x120 pixels AND less than 150kb "
So, I ask once more, while again at work - Can anyone hook me up with a resizing?
Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.
I think some people are reading to much into the joke Cracked is making. It's a joke. But it has a ring of truth, which is what makes it funny IMO.
And yeah, it seems to happen pretty often. Movies with a purely "geek" nitch audience do tend to suffer at the boxoffice, they many seem to rebound in DvD sales. And Movies without fail that geeks HATE, REVILE, and generally scorn normally turn into boxoffice blowouts.
I tend to think it's because, movies geeks *love*, and *approve* of tend to lack mainstream appeal. They are quirky, about subjest matter that's typically not well known, and, in some instences are just kind of strange. Only the geeks go and see them.
The movies geeks HATE and rail against are normally movies the geeks would normally LIKE but have been updated for mainstream audences, or made to appeal to wider audiences. Star Wars prequals, IJ, and Transformares spring to mind. The geeks love the subject matter, hate the movies, but, and here's the kicker, end up seeing it anyways, along with the larger audience the new mainstreaming has attracted, and tada! Boxoffice blowout.
That's my take on the situatiuon.
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Originally Posted by ChrisMoses
APPARENTLY IT IS A PROBLEM.
This time to a Mod. It's *slightly* too big. "Signature Images are allowed, however they must be limited to 600x120 pixels AND less than 150kb " So, I ask once more, while again at work - Can anyone hook me up with a resizing? |
You have a week to host it yourself before I replace it with something inappropriate.
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You do realize that in order to hate a movie you have to see it at least once. Even geeks know that much. What the movies lose when they screw up the subject matter is all the revenue from the repeat geek business. When geeks love a movie you can't keep them from going back and watching it again and again and again. They don't care about ticket prices when the movie is great.
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Originally Posted by KingSnake
The geeks love the subject matter, hate the movies, but, and here's the kicker, end up seeing it anyways,
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Studios don't care too much about anything past the second week (or third, in some cases) because of their diminishing returns. The emphasis on Opening Day Returns is partly ego but also partly because studios receive a larger percentage of the box office on release day than on any subsequent day.|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
My point is Universal allowed theaters to opt out of SP a week to soon. I think it would have showed it had more legs than several of the films that came out the following week. It got kneecapped and the rapid reduction in theaters had everything to do with it's rapidly shrinking box office. Most box office news articles don't mention how many theaters thus allowing the average Joe to draw the wrong conclusion.
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Conversely, the *theatre owners* love movies with legs (such as Avatar and Toy Story 3 this year) because they make the most money per ticket sold after the first month. During opening weekend, the studio takes in 90% of the ticket sales (on average). 12 or 15 weeks later that's reversed, with exhibitors garnering 90% of the ticket price. But how often does a movie stay in theatres for 3 to 4 months? Almost never. Even when they do, few people are attending those shows. Which is why so many exhibitors have gone bankrupt.
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Gee golly, thanks mister!|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
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Now it's tiny. I'm going to develop a complex.
Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.
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Getting movies out of the theatres and onto a DvD release opens the door to a whole new branch of geekdom, the collectors. A collector may very well buy a copy of a movie, not because they like it but instead just to have a complete collection.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
Studios don't care too much about anything past the second week (or third, in some cases) because of their diminishing returns. The emphasis on Opening Day Returns is partly ego but also partly because studios receive a larger percentage of the box office on release day than on any subsequent day.
Conversely, the *theatre owners* love movies with legs (such as Avatar and Toy Story 3 this year) because they make the most money per ticket sold after the first month. During opening weekend, the studio takes in 90% of the ticket sales (on average). 12 or 15 weeks later that's reversed, with exhibitors garnering 90% of the ticket price. But how often does a movie stay in theatres for 3 to 4 months? Almost never. Even when they do, few people are attending those shows. Which is why so many exhibitors have gone bankrupt. |
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It was still in Chico last weekend, even. The geek is strong up here.
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Originally Posted by BlackArachnia
Yayy!
Scott Pilgrim is still in the theatre in Chico, CA! |
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Sounds like someone needs unlock the power of self respect too hehe.
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Originally Posted by ChrisMoses
Gee golly, thanks mister!
Now it's tiny. I'm going to develop a complex. |
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Leader of Eternal Vigilance.
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Beware:NERDS ARE THE WORST FANS!!
Eh, just my own two cents, but I think the marketing kind of stunk for Scott Pilgrim. I had no real clue what the movie was about even after seeing the trailer a few times in commercial breaks. It was kind of a confusing mess, to be honest. I had no clue why there were random colored objects flying all over in some shots, and in others it looked like some teen romantic comedy. Didn't really see a lot about characters or story to involve me at all.
Inception, on the other hand, didn't give everything away but gave enough to intrigue people with its trailers. Plus... the storyline was a lot more universal, even if there are things about the movie that geeks like. Reading about Scott Pilgrim just doesn't intrigue me at all, and I do like "geek" stuff and comics.
Not even sure why Snakes on a Plane is in there. That one seemed more like a random weird movie that Hollywood put out than a real geek culture one (and seriously, is/was anyone that surprised it didn't do well)? I was under the impression that Serenity was a pleasant surprise for critics, etc., even if it wasn't rolling in the dough. Sounded like it did well for a smaller movie.
I dunno... I find myself agreeing with most Cracked articles I read. Am I crazy for that? Or are they just doing that on purpose so we have something to talk about and keep reading their stuff?
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory