So, who's wonderful idea was this?
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2010-08-31 20:09 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Whoa, that's crazy. I've seen him AS stuff in some of the bank missions villain side, but I didn't know it was so high. Was he a boss or a lieutenant?
Active (Freedom): Setna (Ice/Psi Dom), Arram (WP/KM Tank), Tesmiel (Elec/SS Tank), Astredax (Robot/Dark Mastermind), Operative Vidali (melee fortunata)
Retired (Virtue): Gaav (Inv/EM Tank), Baqra (Fire/SS Tank)
>_>
I ran into him on my D3 tonight. I'm really, REALLY glad I kept him locked down at max range now. That had better be a bug because that's just cheaper than a crashless T9 (Looking at you, Freedom Phalanx)
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Hmm. Based on those numbers, I'm guessing you were level 50 facing him as +2. Yep. That's how those powers are defined. The generic villain version of Claws Assassin's Claw is a 1.0 cast time power with no interruptible period and that hits for Scale 2.0 damage. Scale 2.0 is the highest any normal critter is usually allowed to hit for: Statesman's Total Focus-like power maxes at Scale 2.0 as does the hardest hitting of Lord Recluse's attacks. So yeah, I think this is probably a bit broken. They probably nullified the interruptible time but didn't increase the cast time to compensate; this is not the first time I've heard this complaint. I'll hit Castle up on this one and see what he thinks.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
Maybe some of you have met Mangle. He's an NPC signature boss from the various alignment missions. He's supposed to be a Claws/SR, presumably, based on the experience I just had, a Stalker.
I say he's a Stalker because he has Assassin's Claw. That's fine and all, but look what he just did. This is taken from my chat logs, so that timestamps would be included. Look carefully at the time stamps. He executed Assassin's Claw in approximately one second. Based on how it went in combat, I'm pretty sure it was less than that. In fact, I only saw him execute what looked like one attack. Notably, the character I was on has about 1370 HP. So from my perspective, I was effectively one shotted by something that bypasses the one-shot code. (Not that there aren't many examples of this, but still.) So... bug? Side effect of the recent AE critter change removing interruptibility from AE critter powers? Lingering case where his activation time is broken because he was given an uninterruptable AS? Or ridiculous intentional power? Totally dead people want to know. |
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Hmm My scrapper killed Mangle 4 times in the last 2 days so I dunno.
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Yep, and as a boss, to answer the up-thread question.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Hmm. Based on those numbers, I'm guessing you were level 50 facing him as +2.
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| They probably nullified the interruptible time but didn't increase the cast time to compensate; this is not the first time I've heard this complaint. I'll hit Castle up on this one and see what he thinks. |
Which makes me wonder - did they intend to remove interruptability from all critter powers that were interruptable? Granted, I'm not sure a player is ever going to give and NPC a chance to execute an interruptable AS or snipe, but it still surprised me, since the seemingly related patch note specified AE critters.
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Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
Hmm My scrapper killed Mangle 4 times in the last 2 days so I dunno.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Congratulations! You have earned the Mangled badge!
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
This time he was an ambush against a Corruptor. I also didn't expect how he approached, which was to enter the room on a platform above me and then paradrop right on my head (whereupon he executed me with prejudice).
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50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
If he had landed on me and opened with AS, I would have been annoyed, but I wouldn't have started a thread about it. The thread is about his AS having a (corroborated) 1.0s activation.
Edit: Hm, this wasn't a response to Flea... It seems some posts went away. 
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I want his recharge
Well, getting rid of the interrupt did come up as a way to help Stalkers... I can haz? >.>
As for Mangle, I've only run into him on my (softcapped) Elec/Nin, where I never had any trouble (go figure, if you never get hit, you never notice how broken the attacks are). I was wondering what all else would break when critter interrupts were removed, though.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Screw recharge, I want the activation time reducing enhancements he's been slotting! My AS takes a lot more than 1 second. =)
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Originally Posted by HardRider
I want his recharge
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"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
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Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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Castle seems to agree with me that this is *just* a teeny bit overboard. I've suggested returning most or all of the interruptible window to cast time and maybe suppressing some of the damage to make it more like a crit than just an attack that does a megaton of damage, but (as always) its up to the powers team to decide what they want to do with that from a balance perspective. I've suggested looking at all of them though, not just Mangle (and Mangle actually uses the generic hero/villain powers - like the ones used to spawn the bosses that appear in bank robbery ambushes - so be on the lookout for this kind of thing with lots of named but not signature villains).
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
Yep, and as a boss, to answer the up-thread question.
Thanks. I wouldn't have thought about that being the problem, but I saw the patch note about this for AE critters. Which makes me wonder - did they intend to remove interruptability from all critter powers that were interruptable? Granted, I'm not sure a player is ever going to give and NPC a chance to execute an interruptable AS or snipe, but it still surprised me, since the seemingly related patch note specified AE critters. |
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In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Mangle's your ally on (I think) two different Villain Tip missions. He's the only optional NPC I go out of my way for, because he tears everything down. I've actually sat and watched as he took out three groups of +1 Freakshow without breaking a sweat. Most of them go down in 1 or 2 hits, and he's definitely on scrapper lock.
He never seemed as scary as an enemy, but I'm not surprised by this thread at all.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
Mangle started in the Rogue Isles as a captured villain in the PPD jail. I never thought of him as a stalker, but then I never could figure out what he was or what powers he used. He uses a dual wield blade, but he throws them at targets for great damage, and he also does claw damage in melee range. His biggest nemesis is the cardboard box he could never decide how to start attacking.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
That is incredibly weird. I have never seen Mangle before GR, and I have run innumerable bank mishes villain side since they were added to CoV.
Is he expressly non-50 or something? I've run a lot of those as well, but not nearly as many as at 50.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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You're thinking of [Claws.Shockwave], which is indeed brokenly good.
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Originally Posted by Psylenz
Mangle started in the Rogue Isles as a captured villain in the PPD jail. I never thought of him as a stalker, but then I never could figure out what he was or what powers he used. He uses a dual wield blade, but he throws them at targets for great damage, and he also does claw damage in melee range. His biggest nemesis is the cardboard box he could never decide how to start attacking.
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PPD & Resistance Epic Archetypes
Possibly related, possibly not, but has anyone else noticed in the level 25-30 Hero morality mission that Nocturne has an instantaneous healing power? As in there doesn't even seem to be an animation associated with it. She just suddenly recovers a huge portion of her hit points and it happens several times during the fight.
I'm trying to remember from fighting her in the Faultline arcs, but I don't remember that she had anything like Aid Self that could have been affected by the change in interrupt times. Of course in the morality mission she's only a normal boss so she may have different powers there.
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The dual weapons that Mangle uses look so cool.|
Originally Posted by SkarmoryThePG
You're thinking of [Claws.Shockwave], which is indeed brokenly good.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
That is incredibly weird. I have never seen Mangle before GR, and I have run innumerable bank mishes villain side since they were added to CoV.
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Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
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It's not a power... it just happens. I did that mission with my dominator, Domination was roaring (because double-stacked domination holds seem to be the only way to hold Arachnos bosses... don't get me started on the Lost...), she was trapped in Stone, I was pounding her... and her health went to full multiple times during the fight. At least she was held, thus making it just take more time and endurance, but if they really needed to do something to give a Boss-that-was-an-AV some extra oomph, I don't think that was the way to do it.
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Originally Posted by Overclock
Possibly related, possibly not, but has anyone else noticed in the level 25-30 Hero morality mission that Nocturne has an instantaneous healing power? As in there doesn't even seem to be an animation associated with it. She just suddenly recovers a huge portion of her hit points and it happens several times during the fight.
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Heh. This right here made me chuckle. I needed that.
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Originally Posted by Psylenz
His biggest nemesis is the cardboard box he could never decide how to start attacking.
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The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Hell, I have to use day job powers just to keep his useless **** alive.
The more people I meet, the more I'm beginning to root for the zombies.
Doppelganger Strikes you with Focus for 533.66 points of smashing damage!Assassin's Strike was interrupted.Doppelganger Strikes you with Focus for 177.88 points of energy damage!
ar level 32 and i have like 890 hp
players cant give critters time to hit an interuptible attack since we need multiple attacks to take down below level critters and have a much higher acc than critters.
snipes still suck
Maybe some of you have met Mangle. He's an NPC signature boss from the various alignment missions. He's supposed to be a Claws/SR, presumably, based on the experience I just had, a Stalker.
I say he's a Stalker because he has Assassin's Claw. That's fine and all, but look what he just did. This is taken from my chat logs, so that timestamps would be included.
08-31-2010 21:45:01 Mangle impales you with an Assassin's Claw for 969.74 points of lethal damage!
Notably, the character I was on has about 1370 HP. So from my perspective, I was effectively one shotted by something that bypasses the one-shot code. (Not that there aren't many examples of this, but still.)
So... bug? Side effect of the recent AE critter change removing interruptibility from AE critter powers? Lingering case where his activation time is broken because he was given an uninterruptable AS? Or ridiculous intentional power? Totally dead people want to know.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA