All right, YOU have Super Powers. Are you a Hero or a Vigilante?


Arcanaville

 

Posted

Rogue.

I would definately be seen by most as a monster, but i would change the world for the better.


When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...


BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!

 

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It depends, in part, on the powers. If all I can do is make sparkly lights and magically give people the perfect hair for their outfit, it's not going to do me a lot of good to fight crime.

Now, if we're talking "I am a god," (or at least significantly powerful/superman-ish enough) where I don't particularly have to worry about being arrested (because, unless I turn myself in, who's going to be able to hold me?) then by definition I'd be a vigilante. Keep myself to a moral code, yeah, but what I'd be doing would by definition be outside the law... nationally and internationally, as there's no way I'd be staying inside borders if I could move quickly enough.

Of course, depending on who's doing the labeling, I'm sure I'd be called a villain at times, too. All depending on point of view.


 

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Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake View Post
the first part made me think he was either an abrahamic diety or popeye
I'm fairly certain certain sects of Judaism believe Popeye to be their deity. They are, obviously, rejected by other Jewish sects and pejoratively referred to as Hannah-Barbarians.


 

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Now, if we're talking "I am a god," where I don't particularly have to worry about being arrested (because, unless I turn myself in, who's going to be able to hold me?) then by definition I'd be a vigilante. Keep myself to a moral code, yeah, but what I'd be doing would by definition be outside the law... nationally and internationally, as there's no way I'd be staying inside borders if I could move quickly enough.
When I wrote this, the power level I was thinking was "Daredevil/Batman", wherein you're mortal, but somehow police forget that they have the ability to track you down.


 

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Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay View Post
I'm fairly certain certain sects of Judaism believe Popeye to be their deity. They are, obviously, rejected by other Jewish sects and pejoratively referred to as Hannah-Barbarians.
That made me laugh.


 

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Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay View Post
I'm fairly certain certain sects of Judaism believe Popeye to be their deity. They are, obviously, rejected by other Jewish sects and pejoratively referred to as Hannah-Barbarians.
I don't know how to link video, but you know the black and white one of the guy in a tuxedo clapping, just envision that here.

when it comes to abrahamic sect jokes marcian, im always glad to see you enter a thread, and sadducee you go.


 

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
It depends, in part, on the powers.
Ding!

The choice of powers would really determine my capability. I'd be either a Vigilante or a flat-out Villain.
Are we talking SS/Invuln/flight? Fire Blast?

Invisibility and nothing else?

Superspeed?

TP Foe with the ability to put people partially *through* objects?


 

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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan View Post
I just wanted to call this out. More brutal law enforcement is not more effective. This is a commonly held and horribly pernicious fallacy. Casual brutality with an indifferent attitude toward guilt discourages the innocent - and the lesser guilty - from lending vital aid in the form of information, testimony, etcetera. Despite being repeatedly discredited, this "tough on crime" attitude stills informs the public and political will to a dismaying degree. Please do not base your thought experiment on this false premise. Being a vigilante may be more emotionally appealing and it may allow you to force a success in specific cases but on the whole it is not more effective than responsible policing.
I in no way disagree that institutionalized brute squads are a bad idea. However, that has nothing whatsoever to do with killing the guy you catch attacking a woman in a dark alley. That has nothing to do with eviscerating the woman attempting to drown her two year old in the tub. That has nothing to do with smashing in the skull of some corrupt politician.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
I in no way disagree that institutionalized brute squads are a bad idea. However, that has nothing whatsoever to do with killing the guy you catch attacking a woman in a dark alley. That has nothing to do with eviscerating the woman attempting to drown her two year old in the tub. That has nothing to do with smashing in the skull of some corrupt politician.
Bill sounds like me only he protects people


 

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Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay View Post
When I wrote this, the power level I was thinking was "Daredevil/Batman", wherein you're mortal, but somehow police forget that they have the ability to track you down.
Eh. I'd have to move somewhere that'd be useful and fun. >.> Here, I'd get to... threateningly watch neighbors mow the defunct golf course.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
I in no way disagree that institutionalized brute squads are a bad idea. However, that has nothing whatsoever to do with killing the guy you catch attacking a woman in a dark alley. That has nothing to do with eviscerating the woman attempting to drown her two year old in the tub. That has nothing to do with smashing in the skull of some corrupt politician.
Can I be your sidekick? I'd follow you on bloody stumps through the snow in the pursuit of justice.


Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."

 

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Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay View Post
My question: Do you, like Superman, bind yourself by the moral code and legal system of your city like a Hero? You set an example and are the ideal citizen, but your unwillingness to cross the line restricts you from many many methods of information gathering and arrest. As a result, you remain a virtuous ambition of many, but less criminals are caught.

Or do you, like the Punisher or Rorschach, put vengeance and justice above needless laws and don the title of Vigilante? You are feared and reviled by citizens. You sail blind without a moral compass, and you have few allies. As a result, however, you are able to drop the crime rate significantly.
I think I'd actually end up somewhere between these. I definitely wouldn't care at all about the established system's rules and codes. In my view the governments of the world are nigh-irredeemably corrupt, and I have no respect for many of their petty and asinine rules. I certainly would not feel compelled to set the model of the 'ideal citizen', *especially* since it would get in the way of actually doing good. So in that respect I imagine I'd be seen as a vigilante.

However, I wouldn't be 'sailing blind without a moral compass' - just because I wouldn't conform to *society's* system of morality doesn't mean I wouldn't have my *own* moral system to follow. For example, I personally believe that it is not permissible to kill unless the target is in the direct physical act of attempting to kill another (and it is the only way to stop them, which if I was a superhero might only rarely be the case). In other words, the only thing worth a life is another life, and only when the danger is so clear and immediate as to be beyond all doubt. So I wouldn't be able to, for example, assassinate a corrupt executive to stop his evil plan (I wouldn't hesitate, though, to trick them into evacuating whatever facility they're using and then destroying it completely and with no recompense given). There are some other, similar sorts of restrictions I would end up placing on myself as well.

So, while I wouldn't be a traditional 'hero', I wouldn't really be an 'at all costs' vigilante either - at least at first, anyway. Knowing human nature and my own mind as I do, I wouldn't be able to keep it up forever. Heck, at this point my basic coping mechanism for all of the world's crazy problems is to say to myself 'there's nothing you can do about it, so stop beating yourself up over it'. If I actually *could* attempt to do something about it, then sooner or later I would get frustrated enough at my inability to actually fix things that I would snap and go vigilante, and eventually even possibly full-on rogue if I just can't seem to make a difference otherwise. At that point I would probably try to take over the world and impose a theoretically-benevolent dictatorship. Which would, of course, end badly as I have no idea how to run a planet (or even, honestly, any belief that it can even be done). Either that or I would say '**** it' and go flying off into space to explore the universe, and to heck with the human race and all its attendant stupidities.

[edit: I starting posting this before the edits to the OP and the posts that sparked them. This was written assuming a 'superman +' type power level where this moral choice actually becomes (imo) really critical. Below that level, at least in my opinion, the moral choice isn't 'pure', as you're partially constrained by what you (at least in your own mind) think you can *get away with*, rather that what you actually want to *do*. To really explore the moral decisions, I personally think you'd have to have the *ability* to actually do whatever your choice prompts you to do. For example, I couldn't really say with a straight face that I would openly attempt to take over the world and impose a personal dictatorship, because that's not really realistic for someone with a 'batman' level of power (even if they can't seem to track you down) - even though it's what I would (eventually) want to do. (Also hence my comment at the end about saying 'to heck with all of you stupid monkeys' and up and leaving - a mere mortal who can't fly or survive unprotected in space would find that a bit difficult. )


@MuonNeutrino
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
Neither. Unless I was a police officer or other law enforcer, I would only use my powers to save people from fires/disasters/etc. I have no right to take the law into my own hands or usurp the role of people trained to enforce the law.
I agree with EvilGeko. I'd stay out of crime fighting, unless it was to happen right under my nose.

I'd turn to the people-rescue business instead. There's a fire? I'm already inside the building getting people out. Traffic accident? Look who's already there giving first aid! Severe weather like downpour, storms, snow or intense heat? Yup, I'm there, helping out. People missing at sea or lost in the wilderness? I'm already searching for them. Major natural disaster? Looks like I'm working overtime.

Bank being robbed? I'm there with a high resolution camera, gathering as much information as I can, but not interfering. That's for the police to do, all I can do is gather as much data as possible. The only crimes I'd interrupt is violent ones practiced near me.

So I suppose you could call that being a Hero, except not in the traditional comic-booky sense.


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Posted

I'd want to aspire to be the cape, but in the end, I'm only human and would likely do lots of full vigilante things.
Also depends on what and how useful my powers are, but in the general sense, it's also not that I see myself as above the law, simply not always understanding it very easily.
And hell, I'd probably vary whether I'm a hero or vigilante based one state.
Here in California, anyone who's trained for 6 months in any martial art can no longer plead self-defense kills, it is treated as man slaughter, regardless of situation or intent. (also, knives longer than four inches with two edges are illegal... but sword actually aren't.)
So even if I try my best to uphold the law, I will likely fail in more than a few places and become a Maelstrom.


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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
However, that has nothing whatsoever to do with killing the guy you catch attacking a woman in a dark alley. That has nothing to do with eviscerating the woman attempting to drown her two year old in the tub.
So you're saying you would kill yourself.


 

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Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
Neither. Unless I was a police officer or other law enforcer, I would only use my powers to save people from fires/disasters/etc. I have no right to take the law into my own hands or usurp the role of people trained to enforce the law.
Even regular citizens have the right to take reasonable action to prevent or stop a crime from being committed. Where their right tends to end is tracking criminals down after the fact and beating the crap out of them.

The interesting problem is that most normal citizens that are victims of a crime or otherwise entangled in one can often reasonably claim that their lives were potentially in danger. If you were bullet proof, say, you couldn't make that claim. You could be standing in a 7-11 while it was being robbed by a man with a bazooka, and at no time could you claim that you had to act to prevent harm to yourself. You could claim to be protecting others, but if there were no others around, it can get weirdly murky as to the legal latitude you have to stop a crime when you aren't personally threatened.

Might be better to be blaster than tanker in the legal sense.


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Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay View Post
I'm fairly certain certain sects of Judaism believe Popeye to be their deity. They are, obviously, rejected by other Jewish sects and pejoratively referred to as Hannah-Barbarians.

Can I use this a joke?


 

Posted

Supervillain. I'll be taking back everything that was taken from me and then some. Who cares about other people?


 

Posted

I'm a Rogue.

Sure, I can do mean things, but I can do things for the good, too. Just how big is your wallet? In the meantime, you do your thing, I'll do mine and we'll get along just fine.


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Posted

I wouldn't be either. If I had some sort of powers I would use them to make money. I have better things to do than worry about Random Citizen A.


 

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I hope the people picking Rogue and Villain know I'm not speaking in-character...


 

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Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay View Post
I hope the people picking Rogue and Villain know I'm not speaking in-character...
I know. I'm deathly serious. I don't like other people much.