Praetoria - A hard fight.


Ashen_EU

 

Posted

I'm sure I'm not the only one to notice that the difficulty in Praetoria is rather harsher than the beginning difficulty in Paragon/Rogue Isles. Thinking on it, I've come up with some main points for me as to why these enemies are seeming tougher and harder than their vanilla game counterparts.

((Edit: To state, my two mains currently are a Kinetic Melee/Willpower Scrapper, and a Robotics/Traps Mastermind. Levels 12 and 10, respectively.))

1: There are frequent +1 spawns.
A lot of missions I've done, +1's are the norm, while Even Level enemies are the rare exception to the rule. At low levels with few enhancements (TO's at that), this puts the pressure on in fights, with them hitting harder, more accurately, taking more damage and being harder to hit.

2: There are frequent 4 Minion Mobs.
Some groups, especially Destroyers and Resistance, come in groups of 4. Sometimes, they come in groups of 4 while being +1. More enemies mean more damage taken, a longer fight, more endurance used, which leads to the next point.

3: Downtime is excessive.
There is no out of combat Regen/Recovery bonus like some MMO's. There is quite a limited inventory for inspirations, especially early on. Rest is on a 3 minute recharge timer. This means if I get taken down far enough in the End/HP stakes during a fight, I either have to rest, wait for rest to recharge, wait for the bars to recover on their own, hope I have Blue/Green Insps or enough to combine. At baseline, it takes 59.5 seconds to recover endurance from 0% to 100%, and 239.5 seconds to go from 0% to 100% health.

Take into account you'll be getting more damage and using more endurance per group due to size and enemy levels, and this can mean you'll spend a fair amount of time waiting rather than doing.

4: Enemies do more varied, and harder to deal with effects.
-Regen, -Recharge, -Def, are some of the main pains I've noticed. -Regen means it takes even longer to recover, and that mid combat natural regen is even slower. -Recharge increases the time it takes to defeat enemies, meaning you take more damage. -Def means you take more hits, leading to more damage.

5: Ambushes pile on the pressure and reduce time/means to recover HP/End
With plenty of ambushes cropping up in the missions, and long waves too, your time spent resting may get interrupted. You may not even have the time to rest. Stealth does not prevent ambushes tracking you (if they're not set to go to a location) meaning the Shadowy Presence power is useless. If you lack inspirations or combinable ones, this requires either lots of running to try and put enough distance between you and them to get some HP/End back, which may not be possible, or a trip to the hospital.

6: The new content and methods of interaction make missions more appealing to solo to experience.
With team mates missing out dialogue from conversation windows, and the quicker running of missions/gaining of EXP from team played content, I find this discourages me from teaming as I want to experience the stories. If I were teaming, I'd miss some of the great information and interaction simply due to not being the team leader. This has left me planning to do most of the content solo on some characters, with others less soloable teaming with scant regard for the new content provided. This may just be a problem that I experience, with the viewpoint that the storylines and missions, as branching and personal as they are, aren't suited to team based gameplay.

That's about it from these points. Don't get me wrong. I love GR, and haven't had this much fun in the game for a while. These are points that just niggle at me, and I wonder if others would agree or disagree. Comments are always interesting, and I also wonder what could be done to deal with some of the points.


 

Posted

Point 6 is really what kills it for me. I want to solo the content (at least the first time, I would probably skip it on later Praetorians if I made them) but the game seems to be trying its hardest to punish me for it.


"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...

 

Posted

Lack of end mitigation is the big kicker for me. With Stamina not being available until level 20, the END of Praetorian content, all there is, is insps and endrec enhancements; which at TO and DO levels, suck.


@FloatingFatMan

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
Then go play those games, not this one.

This game is different. Get over it.
Wow, you constructive soul. I mean, this is just the most startling and incisive comment I have ever read.

On topic, the Pretoria missions to feel more solo based and the volume of mez effects so early in the game is always off putting, the vazlilock are a prime example of this.


 

Posted

It punishes certain AT's and powersets. The more solo based ones do fine, but since you're asking late blooming power sets or team based AT's to do Solo missions it probably shouldn't be so agonisingly slow to plough through them if I want to play a Defender.

Up the regen out of combat, or just give Stamina and Health free already, they're boring picks when levelling and yet by far the most common powers for people to have. Not a good combo.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cass_ View Post
Wow, you constructive soul. I mean, this is just the most startling and incisive comment I have ever read.

On topic, the Pretoria missions to feel more solo based and the volume of mez effects so early in the game is always off putting, the vazlilock are a prime example of this.
FEEL more solo based? I did one last night that explicitly FORCED me to solo! It told me I could NOT take any team members at ALL It was a solo ONLY mission.


@FloatingFatMan

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

Posted

Looks like I'm going to be in the minority on this but I enjoy soloing in Praetoria. To me the content was challenging but not insurmountable. I have felt this was a nice change from the rest of the game where the devs made everything far too easy and as a result boring.

I do however respect the opinions of those who aren't pleased, and I hope you don't give up on this.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan View Post
FEEL more solo based? I did one last night that explicitly FORCED me to solo! It told me I could NOT take any team members at ALL It was a solo ONLY mission.
Yeah those are morality missions where you alone are making a choice on whether or not that character will do a good or evil act.


 

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I've had great fun on my Brute. The Dominator on the other hand, is not so rosy.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Looks like I'm going to be in the minority on this but I enjoy soloing in Praetoria. To me the content was challenging but not insurmountable. I have felt this was a nice change from the rest of the game where the devs made everything far too easy and as a result boring.

I do however respect the opinions of those who aren't pleased, and I hope you don't give up on this.
I enjoy Praetoria, I mostly enjoy soloing, and I love the content and choices. The stated points were just things that rankled me a little, or were more noticeable on my other characters (Got 8 in Praetoria so far at various levels).

There's a fine line between challenge though ("THE GHOULS ARE COMING" AAAAAH! *Desperate Fight*) and boring. (*waits around for HP/End/Rest to recharge*)

Lastly, I also feel that the lack of NPCs to alter difficulty enhances the issues. With difficulty modification, those on less solo capable AT's have their option to have things at an easier pace, and those on the more capable could up theirs if they liked the risk.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanservice View Post
I've had great fun on my Brute. The Dominator on the other hand, is not so rosy.

No argument that some are more challenging then others. I'm just saying I enjoyed the change.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Looks like I'm going to be in the minority on this but I enjoy soloing in Praetoria. To me the content was challenging but not insurmountable. I have felt this was a nice change from the rest of the game where the devs made everything far too easy and as a result boring.

I do however respect the opinions of those who aren't pleased, and I hope you don't give up on this.
I'm with Z. I love Praetoria, the morality missions, the mobs, the new powersets, the GORGEOUS visuals. But the end problems are a little frustrating, especially as Ghouls have such a long aggro range that you usually end up fighting 2 groups at once. I've been forced to run for it more now than I ever have before...


@FloatingFatMan

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

Posted

There was quite a good (in myopinion) suggestion to reduce or even eliminate the recharge on rest. It wouldn't really effect the difficulty of anything (since if you could have used rest, you could have just stood their waiting), but there would be less waiting.


Always remember, we were Heroes.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zortel View Post
I enjoy Praetoria, I mostly enjoy soloing, and I love the content and choices. The stated points were just things that rankled me a little, or were more noticeable on my other characters (Got 8 in Praetoria so far at various levels).

There's a fine line between challenge though ("THE GHOULS ARE COMING" AAAAAH! *Desperate Fight*) and boring. (*waits around for HP/End/Rest to recharge*)

I hope what I said didn't imply that I was being dismissive of your points. While I may not mind recharge my hp/end because I consider it a small price to pay for not getting killed in the last fight, I can easily understand how another person will find it an annoying pain in the butt.


 

Posted

I really like OP's point #6. It'd be nice if, whenever the leader picks a mish (in any location), you get a large pop-up window and can read the mission or close it if you don't want to. Maybe even have it like those help pop-ups (exclamation points) where if it comes up you can close it and read it later. That way you know what's going on and feel much more immersed in the CoX world.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan View Post
I'm with Z. I love Praetoria, the morality missions, the mobs, the new powersets, the GORGEOUS visuals. But the end problems are a little frustrating, especially as Ghouls have such a long aggro range that you usually end up fighting 2 groups at once. I've been forced to run for it more now than I ever have before...
Yeah, the falling back doesn't bother me as much. But I've always been a little daft.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
I hope what I said didn't imply that I was being dismissive of your points. While I may not mind recharge my hp/end because I consider it a small price to pay for not getting killed in the last fight, I can easily understand how another person will find it an annoying pain in the butt.
Not at all I was simply expanding on a view point of mine that was tucked away at the bottom of a post that some might consider to be the common internet animal, the teal dear/tl;dr.

Regarding the comment on recharges, I made a suggestion like this myself a few months back:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...highlight=Rest

Though some people thought it was just whining to give up 3 out of 24 power picks for Stamina (which was odd as it was about Rest), and others that I should, in more words, learn2play.


 

Posted

I've had great fun on my new Dom so far. My tank has been fun too, when on a team. His first Morality mission last night was an exercise in pure frustration. It simply took too long. I was playing a low damage team-oriented AT and I was being forced to solo a mission while still in the TO range. It was the most boring time I've had in game in a while. Punch, punch. Wait. Punch, punch. Wait. The mobs weren't really doing a lot to me, but then I wasn't doing a lot to them either.

And what is up with there being nowhere to adjust our difficulty in Praetoria? Being able to set mob spawns to -1 was a big boon for lower damage AT's. Why the heck is it a good idea to take it away from us in the shiny new content?


 

Posted

I've played a Grav/Rad Controller and a SS/WP Brute and not had any problems solo. Been fun actually. Will admit that it is a bit more challenging than Paragon City, but that makes it more exciting for me; admittedly though I'm very good at games, especially this one. I know how to make the most of what I've got and also use the environment to my advantage. (Quick Tip: If you get ambushes, use LoS to draw them near you so you can ambush them.)

Also I haven't used any Vet powers, before anyone throws that at me ;-)

On the topic of endurance I once again have no problems. Nothing that a 'catch a breathe' couldn't fix anyway. Somehow I have this vision of people fighting with sprint on, and using their powers inefficiently, like using Knockout Blow on a minion with 20% health instead of waiting 1s for Jab.

All I would suggest is that everyone looks at their own playstyle and see how they can improve. Players have a habbit of blaming the game sometimes a bit of reflection and improvement would suffice better.