While the loss of a 30% damage buff may seem like a lot at first glance, that's only because it is a rather large loss. For purposed of calculating average damage output, 75% fury is a safe value to use. Although some sets might consider that too generous.
Be well, people of CoH.
Wasn't it something like 75-80% that you were using when comparing Brutes and Scrappers, BillZ?
At any rate, I am pretty okay with these changes. I dare say I might even be happy with them.
Yup, heavy preventative-mitigation sets (both primaries and secondaries) like knockdowns, disorients, etc. really put a noticeable dent in Fury generation. On the positive side, it's now worth going for tougher secondaries like /Stone or /SR because they interfere less with Fury generation and pair them with less mitigating primaries like Fire/ for maximal Fury generation.
Also worth noting that Shadow Maul no longer causes a noticeable drop in the Fury bar. Yay!
The downside is, slower sets also have a tougher time generating Fury - I'm looking at you Elec/ and Stone/ with your 3+ second AOEs and disorients.
For what it's worth, Castle was using a battle axe Brute to playtest these changes.
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
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I don't mind the change. It needed to happen. And I used 90% fury on the first round comparison and 75% fury on the low recharge one.
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Originally Posted by Warkupo
Wasn't it something like 75-80% that you were using when comparing Brutes and Scrappers, BillZ?
At any rate, I am pretty okay with these changes. I dare say I might even be happy with them. |
Be well, people of CoH.
Brutes are going to be more steady for most people after this change. Lower, but steady. With appropriate spikes for hard content.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Not surprising. Fury was designed to scale roughly with spawn size; I16 changed spawn scaling dramatically. Suddenly every solo brute in the game could stay at max fury practically all the time. So I18 will rescale fury.
What they're changing Fury!
I can only see more and more nerfs in the future now...
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Stop that.
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Originally Posted by GangstaBlade
What they're changing Fury!
I can only see more and more nerfs in the future now... |
They are making brutes less awesome!
I will complain as much as I want.
Brutes are hard capped at 85% resistance.
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I believe that change was pulled. Last I checked, they still cap at 90% like tanks.
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
Brutes are hard capped at 85% resistance.
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Be well, people of CoH.
well then 
*glares at Abrams*
In my experience, it has always been difficult to build fury in larger teams, especially teaming with tanks and scrappers. This seems like it will just make fury building more difficult and encourage brutes to solo more and team less.
I'm with Ponytail on this one. While solo, I can still pump out the damage and maintain high fury, just not as high as before. In groups it will be even more difficult to keep that damage high and having 2 brutes or even just a brute and a tank on the team will make it even more difficult to build fury than before.
Yes fury probably should have been changed on the high end but not the low end. I would have put the bar at around 50% instead of 30%. Devs seem to have a flair for overnerfing things.
Only time will tell.
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This is all just a ploy to make it so brutes stop asking for Ice because devs hate villians.|
Originally Posted by tarrantm
Yup, heavy preventative-mitigation sets (both primaries and secondaries) like knockdowns, disorients, etc. really put a noticeable dent in Fury generation. On the positive side, it's now worth going for tougher secondaries like /Stone or /SR because they interfere less with Fury generation and pair them with less mitigating primaries like Fire/ for maximal Fury generation.
Also worth noting that Shadow Maul no longer causes a noticeable drop in the Fury bar. Yay! The downside is, slower sets also have a tougher time generating Fury - I'm looking at you Elec/ and Stone/ with your 3+ second AOEs and disorients. |
DOOOOOOOOOM!!!
I'm not thrilled with the Fury changes, but it could have been worse.
Not too worried about building/maintaining Fury on teams. I don't usually have much of a problem in the co-op zones. Can't imagine post GR to be much different. Just have to beat the tank to the spawn. Scrappers do it all the time.
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I've found that Fury is actually easier to build up to around 50% as long as I can attack, and the .75/sec degradation during battle means that, assuming I don't have to go searching for spawns on a map, I usually go into a fight with a nice little chunk of Fury already in place.|
Originally Posted by Ponytail
In my experience, it has always been difficult to build fury in larger teams, especially teaming with tanks and scrappers. This seems like it will just make fury building more difficult and encourage brutes to solo more and team less.
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Now, teaming IS a different dynamic because you won't necessarily have all the aggro for yourself. With these changes, I can still hit 70% or higher fairly quickly off just 2 or 3 enemies. But if enemies are getting dropped so fast that you can't build up a lot of Fury, then you really shouldn't worry about building Fury. You're still in there slugging away and it's not your fault that the team is steamrolling through the mission. Enjoy your XP and loot.
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
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No, they are not. They are making Brutes more awesome.
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Originally Posted by GangstaBlade
They are making brutes less awesome!
I will complain as much as I want. |
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Biggest Troll on the forums? I'll give you a hint:
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"If we weren't killing the enemies so quickly I could kill faster!"
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
But if enemies are getting dropped so fast that you can't build up a lot of Fury, then you really shouldn't worry about building Fury. You're still in there slugging away and it's not your fault that the team is steamrolling through the mission. Enjoy your XP and loot.
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As far as I recall, only a handful of players provided feedback on team performance. The version of Fury that's going live is FAR better than the initial round of balancing. The first swing at a Fury revamp would have made it difficult for any Brute to consistently maintain much more than 55% Fury (110% enhanced damage) while in suboptimal teaming situations. The current version should put Brutes squarely around 65% even in terrible conditions. |
Originally Posted by HelinCarnate
In groups it will be even more difficult to keep that damage high and having 2 brutes or even just a brute and a tank on the team will make it even more difficult to build fury than before.
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**With that being said. I never was able to team with more than 4 players on Beta.**
This is undoubtedly a nerf-- one that hits teamed Brutes harder than solo Brutes. But it's pretty fair given what some players were advocating, which was a peak performance of 60 Fury.
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I've tried the new Fury. I don't mind the changes and really don't see any performance loss at all. As to the damage cap reduction, no big deal.
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Originally Posted by Kheldarn
No, they are not. They are making Brutes more awesome.
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So what I didn't get so far is why after all these years they felt it necessary to make this change, or any change to Brutes. In my opinion, Brutes are pretty balanced compared to Scrappers. Brutes have better peak performance but Scrappers are much more consistent. This change seems like it was designed to make Brutes play more consistently like Scrappers, except that they still start off fights extremely weak. Certainly Brutes don't need any more incentive than they already have to solo.
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I guess you can keep saying that if it makes you feel better, but a nerf is a nerf. None of my Brutes will be as effective post-i18 as they were before it, especially those I tended to team with. All because of whiny hero players.
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Originally Posted by Kheldarn
No, they are not. They are making Brutes more awesome.
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@Eisenzahn
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Since the Going Rogue NDA was lifted today, I figured I'd swing in and post the changes to Fury that have been made:
- Fixed a bug which prevented bonus Fury generation when attacking other players or very difficult targets such as Archvillains. The bonus is a flat 5 points per qualifying target hit by the attack, up to 70% Fury. Note that unlike standard Fury generation, this bonus only applies if the attack hits the target.
Under most situations, Fury generation "caps" out at between 75% and 80% now, although actual generation still depends on spawn size and ability to have enemies attack you, and you them. The reduction in overall Fury generation means that Brutes can still out-damage Scrappers at the high end, but not outperform them in the manner they formerly could. The bonus Fury generation from AVs, players, and monsters is VERY nice. I was able to max out an SS/Inv Brute of mine at around 75% Fury against a Quarry one-on-one in a few seconds.Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."