What the Hell Were They Thinking? (villain equipment)

So, I've had this question that's been weighing on my mind for a while about various villain groups in Paragon and the Rogue Isles, namely the paramilitary groups and for some of them, their means of 'stealth' operations.

The Council and Fifth Column are the most glaring example since you see them so soon.
The Nacht and Penumbra divisions are supposed to be the covert operations branches of their respective groups according to text.
What we see in game are guys who employ sub-machine guns, high powered rifles (okay), shotguns (what?), grenades, enormous chain guns, and rocket launchers. (WTF?!)
On the note of special and stealth operation cells, there's Malta. They can be excused to some extent since they do have to fight metahumans, but it really goes too far when they bring out their Titans into a small office building or cave just to assassinate some CIA clerk who asked all the wrong questions when a simple backstab or poisoned cup of coffee should have done just as well. This fails to even go into the fact that both of these "covert operatives" can be seen WORKING OUTSIDE IN BROAD DAYLIGHT.
The most mild of these offenders is the Knives of Artemis, they're big problem is mostly that their standard MO would leave messy blood stains and trails everywhere as well as conspicuous amounts of caltrops laying around and white, sticky substances from their web grenades. But they are at least only seen outside in Grandville where few, credible people, would be likely to see them and those that are vaguely credible already are aware of their organization's existence.

Now on a lesser related note we have the Sky Raiders, who, despite a bulk of the units spending their time in the air, are often seen with close quarters flame throwers and using submachine guns. This is understandable for the basic Raiders who are explicitly mentioned to be equipped for situations where they're not expected to be flying, and for teleporters, but for Wing Raiders and their officers, there's no excuse.

So who else has asked these questions before?

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

Malta clearly lives by the mantra of "go big or go home."

Criminals are dumb - that's why we catch them so easily

Yeah as soon as I got the "Headhunter Red 2-4-2 has called you out" paper I was like, huh? If he had a problem with me he'd just disappear me. And whatever happened to Headhunter Red 2-4-2 anyway? I haven't seen him in the paper in a while. It was a cute Easter Egg.

The Kronos titan isn't such a big deal, in the context of the World Wide Red arc it's an indication of just how desperate the Malta are getting, if they're willing to send their giant robot after you.

And what is it with the CoT? Who the hell performs dark magic and human sacrifices in public parks in heavily populated areas in broad daylight? Perez I can understand, but Steel Canyon? Founder's Falls?

As Iron pointed out, no real problem with the Council/5th Modus Operandi. Stealthy to the Target Area, sure. But then it gets lit up like the 4th of July.

I do, however, also HATE the 'on the street' prescence of Malta and Knives. They should, if nothing else, be confined to spawning in cover/shadows/behind things. NOT out in broad daylight.

Council and 5th, fine. They have their recruitment drives, intimidation acts, fighting between each other and general 'We are Here!' street prescence. That works. CoT works too; the ancient mages are just too damn arrogant for their own good. And who's going to argue other than a cape when you have an elven foot flaming Behemoth backing you up?

But if I had any say in it, you'd really have to hunt in corners and dark places to find the Knives and Malta. Oh, and Crey would only be doing shady things in backalleys, too. So much for the corporate front...

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Well one of the problems is that if it were done "realistically", your mission briefing would be:

Contact: We've received information that the Malta Group may be targetting a corporate whistle-blower over at the SomeCompany offices, you'd better get over there and check it out.

(moments later): Mission Failed

Contact: Hmm, cwb seems to have accidently added a large quantity of rat poison instead of coffee creamer to his daily caffeine fix....Sorry about that.

--

Contact: Sorry hero, I did have some feelers out about Senator XYZ and his connection to the Council, but he seems to have vanished and no one has any idea where he could be. Why don't you come back later.

--

Contact: (said in a strangely stilted monotone) No hero, I do not think that you should waste any more time investigating this so-called Circle of Thorns . . .

--

etc...

I agree it breaks immersion...
Seeing Malta in broad Daylight in Peregrine Isle, or getting a paper mission where one of Malta bosses "calls you out". Or seeing Knives of Artemis so easily around... in broad daylight.

Its silly seeing Circle of Thorn mages conduct magical rituals in broad daylight in a public place, as it is seeing Vahzilok do the same.
Come to think of it, any group that relies on stealth or being subversive should not be that easy to spot in broad daylight.

Take Fusionette and Faultline (two heroes) that has gotten their names (one more then the other) dragged into the gutter by game mechanics, and Lady Jane being all "Gung-ho"-chick by us players.

I say Game-mechanics.
The Hidden enemy groups are not dumb or stupid, its breaking immersion so that we can easily street-swipe. It would have been better if we could see them only at night time, but then...
Imagine you get a hunt mission and you have to wait until nighttime (just as you have to wait for Banished pantheon masks spawning in Talos at night to get the badge... I imagine you would be annoyed if this was to go for more villain groups (I know I might).
Via the current game-mechanics we can take down the villains when we want and when we see them.

Personally I would DEFINITLY want to see the Devs replace the captured animation on many of the npc heroes that you are going to rendavous with. Come-on we don't need to see Faultline captured by Rikti, (make him fight them).

What I'm trying to get here is... the fact that immersion has to be put aside for the gameplay/mechanics. Thats my two cents anyway. (I wish it was not)

@peacemoon. Oh yes having Paragon Protectors fight crime etc since they "publically" "are" heroes, through Creys publicity machine. I like your idea.

What gets me is the Rikti in Peregrine Island. Sure, i don't see many on the streets in between flying places, but the beach is swarming with them, and there isn't a Vanguard operative in sight ...

However, one point i would like to make is the Hellions. Yes, the Hellions. You only have to travel about 10 seconds away from Atlas Plaza and there are several crimes being commited. Considering they're commiting these crimes in what is essentially the centre of crime fighting central, they could at least show an attempt at trying not to be seen etc. But as mentioned before, it's sacrificing a believable aspect of the game for game mechanics. Though i myself would like to see mentioned changes. One can only dream ...

See!!! This all goes to what I have been saying as part of "Dynamic Content (tm)". The various groups should be doing what they are suppose to be doing, where they are supposed to be doing it! You don't see Vanguard hanging out on the street corners, because they have a war to fight, but you do see Rikti in Founders having daiquiris down on the river walk. It's all part of the fact that we are spoon-feed criminals to boost our egos early in our careers, but I feel it's bad practice.

The annoying thing about Peregrine Island for me is the amount of "Gee the Carnies and/or Malta are raising a ruckus on Peregrine... go beat up 20-50 of them..."

...then I have trouble finding many of them ...


What do I find everywhere constantly causing trouble?

Nemesis

So why don't I get a majority of "Go pound on the Nemesissies" missions?
Give me a "Jaeger Meister" badge or something...

(I'd love to have the caltrop supply contract for the Knives... easy money!)

Then again, if they ever get around to a zone revamp, drop the "go arrest X" missions altogether.

Ahh, Thorn wielders. Theres a poor schmuck group who got stuck in the wrong level bracket...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

The enemies we fight are the incompetent ones. The competent ones are too smart to stick around and wait for a hero/villain to show up.

Twas Brillig, and the slithy toves did gire and gimble-

DAMNIT! Can't get that outta my head now! >_<

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

No. Brillig's username on the forums here hence me posting after him

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Actually, about the only thing that baffles and annoys me is just how incredibly stupid many of the groups are.

For example, put yourself in this situation. You and three of your compadres come across a mark. One guy hits the mark square in the chest with a shotgun blast. No effect, mark keeps coming. Another guy blasts the mark square in the shoulder with a sledgehammer. Nothin'. Third guy empties an SMG clip into the mark. Nada. So you, being the super genius you are, decide you're going to get the job done....with your bowie knife? Come on! I want slicer type mobs given AoC-esque graphic death animations just because they're probably the dumbest mobs ever.

Here's something that always annoyed/amused me: