City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

impact of account-wide inf on poverty consciousness

all_hell

By all_hell,
Posted on: 2010-07-06 10:49 in The Market and Inventions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodion View Post
Similarly, if they don't understand which drops should be posted on the market and which should be vendored, they will continue to be relative paupers. You need a basic understanding of the worth of things in order to become wealthy, in real life as in this game.
How to help with that? An earlier poster described players who vendored valuable stuff because all their bid slots were filled with trash. I'll guess that they were paranoid about losing their listing fees for the garbage. What might be better ways to spread the word about what's valuable?

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugOne View Post
What might be better ways to spread the word about what's valuable?
Don't spread the word about what's valuable, but more so general knowledge of how to look at the market and to get an idea of how to figure out for themselves... otherwise whatever niche they're all told about will be diluted and killed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight View Post
By what you highlighted, he means it's trivial to transfer inf between characters, thanks to the email system. He DOES NOT MEAN that you have ONE 'inf' display for ALL characters.
Thank you thank you thank you, for clearing that up. I guess i can leave my (well some of it) inf liquid for now

Currently Playing:

A bunch of toons! (Freedom, Virtue, and a few on Infinity)

 

Posted

Quote:
They aren't doing it mechanically- all characters will still have all of the 2b inf cap to play around with.

But in practical terms, the ability to email ourselves inf means all of our characters potentially have access to all of our inf, not just the bit they've earned for themselves.
LOL - wow this thread had me going for a moment thinking what the fellow above thought having one inf display.

I was trying to imagine 1) isnt there a cap on holdings, and 2) how would they stuff a couple hundred billion into one display, 3) and lastly how much was I gonna end up losing and crying to support about the next day...lol.

Over the hills and through the woods.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
So, amidst all the (justifiable) excitement about the upcoming market merger one fairly major related change has mostly skimmed along under the radar.

No longer is inf bound to this or that character or faction, it is now part of an account-wide pool....or multi-account wide, for those who indulge in such things.

For us in-the-know types, this is more a QOL change than anything as players have always found ways around silly systemic limitations on their inf.

But I wonder if the impact on our old friend the "casual gamer" won't be more profound than anticipated. One popular complaint over the years has been "I like to play my alts too much, so I can't make a fortune". Now, what was once 16 individual cups of inf is one gallon.

Another popular accusation is that "sugar daddies" funding other characters is an underhanded practice. Well, there are no more sugar daddies. Your entire account shares the same inf pool....it's positively Socialist!

I'm wondering if, once all this sinks in, a new generation of 'casual gamers' will be less hostile and conspiracy minded about the market. Any thoughts?
Its still not going to help them. Until you reach lvl 50 your earning potential just isnt really there unless you get some crazy rare drops. The odds of that happening is that much worse if you dont stay on an alt long enough for said drop to occur. So while if they could combine funds now they could afford a few things but if they end up having to deal with it when everyone else can combine funds its going to push stuff that much further out of their price range. Had they not made merits bind on acquire they would have some chance but now they have zero chance at getting something.

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Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpeter View Post
Indeed. We'll get complaints that pooling your inf is ebil because each character should stand on their own two feet for RP reasons. If you don't like the market, you don't like the market. That will never change.
That would be Venture saying that easily. Which is crazy since you can just as easily RP it the other way by saying you are calling in a favor from one of your alts for something thus the transfer of inf.

Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator

Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
But I wonder if the impact on our old friend the "casual gamer" won't be more profound than anticipated. One popular complaint over the years has been "I like to play my alts too much, so I can't make a fortune". Now, what was once 16 individual cups of inf is one gallon.

Another popular accusation is that "sugar daddies" funding other characters is an underhanded practice. Well, there are no more sugar daddies. Your entire account shares the same inf pool....it's positively Socialist!

I'm wondering if, once all this sinks in, a new generation of 'casual gamers' will be less hostile and conspiracy minded about the market. Any thoughts?
I was "hostile and conspiracy minded about the market" until I started elaborate contrivances to concentrate inf accumulation on a single character. Part of this was a question of having too many alts, and no real "main"; accumulating that much inf on any one character threatened to get dull.

Thank God that this game does not include tedium like progression raiding, which more or less forces you into playing a single character consistently.


<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by EvilRyu View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpeter View Post
Indeed. We'll get complaints that pooling your inf is ebil because each character should stand on their own two feet for RP reasons. If you don't like the market, you don't like the market. That will never change.
That would be Venture saying that easily. Which is crazy since you can just as easily RP it the other way by saying you are calling in a favor from one of your alts for something thus the transfer of inf.
I actually do like my characters to "stand on their own two feet" unless there is an IC reason they'd be receiving inf from other characters. Hard to see it as a cause for complaint, though. It's easy enough to just refrain from clicking the email button if I don't want to, but it's nice that the option is there, when I do want to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilRyu View Post
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Not really relevant, but I like this note in your sig. I recently spent almost my character's inf on a recipe for a proc I really wanted. Then I noticed he had some merits and decided, just for kicks, to try a couple of rare recipe rolls. He got two recipes and sold them for 80 mil (combined). Small beans to some, but quite the thrill for me.

- Crystal

 

Posted

With global e-mail allowing each individual character's market slots to become part of a greater meta-being, it means that I don't have to worry about clogging up the character I'm currently playing. I can now list items that might be of questionable short-term return that will both increase my overall income and well as pump supply into the channel.

 

Posted

I suspect we will see the continued trend of good items getting more expensive and not-so-good items getting cheaper, people will complain about high prices and other people will complain about not enough supply (which generally means prices are too low).

So yes, continued inflation. It will be interesting to see how many different items on the market hit the influence cap over the next year.

Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html

 

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people will complain about high prices and other people will complain about not enough supply (which generally means prices are too low).
No, low supply causes high prices. If prices were too low, they would go up to compensate, resulting in higher prices (which is how supply and demand works).

Quote:
So yes, continued inflation. It will be interesting to see how many different items on the market hit the influence cap over the next year.
If more than a few hit the cap, the Dev's hands will basically be forced. Either they'll have to raise the inf cap, increase the supply somehow (i.e. bump the drop rate, artificially add more to the market, etc), or remove inf from the market.

IMO, the last option is the best, since there's going to be virtually zero inf leaving the market come the next update (removing the transaction fees), which means inflation will spike. They need to create a legitimate (legitimate = something people are willing to use, if not want to use) inf sink, to begin draining at least some inf from the economy (ideally, to cause the total inf in the economy to begin slowly decreasing, increasing the purchasing power of inf). I don't think there's any one way they could do this, but a few different ones (fix prestige conversion, create artificial sellers on the market, etc) might be enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal_Smoke View Post
I actually do like my characters to "stand on their own two feet" unless there is an IC reason they'd be receiving inf from other characters.




- Crystal
My in character reason would be they are all pretty much in the same Super Group and they want to help each other be the best possible heroes that they can be.

Enjoy your day please.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight View Post
No, low supply causes high prices. If prices were too low, they would go up to compensate, resulting in higher prices (which is how supply and demand works).

If more than a few hit the cap, the Dev's hands will basically be forced. Either they'll have to raise the inf cap, increase the supply somehow (i.e. bump the drop rate, artificially add more to the market, etc), or remove inf from the market.

IMO, the last option is the best, since there's going to be virtually zero inf leaving the market come the next update (removing the transaction fees), which means inflation will spike. They need to create a legitimate (legitimate = something people are willing to use, if not want to use) inf sink, to begin draining at least some inf from the economy (ideally, to cause the total inf in the economy to begin slowly decreasing, increasing the purchasing power of inf). I don't think there's any one way they could do this, but a few different ones (fix prestige conversion, create artificial sellers on the market, etc) might be enough.
To the first point, I think that if people put a couple of 1,000,000,000 bids out on some lvl 33 Kinetic Combat pieces, and they were able to communicate those bids (on these forums, perhaps), then they would get their supply pretty quick. That tells me that the current supply that is currently in bases and on toons are not coming to market because there is not enough incentive. Yeah, I took Econ 102 as well. Heck, I taught it in grad school, hopefully not to you, since I'm not sure you are understanding how demand and supply interact in a multi-period environment.

To the second, I agree with your observation, but I would bet the farm on the second option within the next year or two. I'm not sure of which mechanism they will use, but I would bet even money that by the time 2012 rolls around, you will be able to "buy" any enhancement you want from a game vendor.

Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight View Post
since there's going to be virtually zero inf leaving the market come the next update (removing the transaction fees),
Did I miss something? I spend way too much time on these forums but don't recall seeing anything about the transaction fees going away.

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The Mentor Project

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yomo_Kimyata View Post
That tells me that the current supply that is currently in bases and on toons are not coming to market because there is not enough incentive.
The supplies in bases is going to be relatively minor (and mostly forgotten), and those on toons are unlikely to be unslotted unless the toon is intentionally being gutted. They're really not all that worth considering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironblade View Post
Did I miss something? I spend way too much time on these forums but don't recall seeing anything about the transaction fees going away.
I remember reading it in (IIRC) one of the threads about the market merger. I just checked the original announcement and FAQ, but didn't see it, so it's possible I misremembered (I don't feel like going through all the red name posts again ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
So, amidst all the (justifiable) excitement about the upcoming market merger one fairly major related change has mostly skimmed along under the radar.

No longer is inf bound to this or that character or faction, it is now part of an account-wide pool....or multi-account wide, for those who indulge in such things.

For us in-the-know types, this is more a QOL change than anything as players have always found ways around silly systemic limitations on their inf.

But I wonder if the impact on our old friend the "casual gamer" won't be more profound than anticipated. One popular complaint over the years has been "I like to play my alts too much, so I can't make a fortune". Now, what was once 16 individual cups of inf is one gallon.

Another popular accusation is that "sugar daddies" funding other characters is an underhanded practice. Well, there are no more sugar daddies. Your entire account shares the same inf pool....it's positively Socialist!

I'm wondering if, once all this sinks in, a new generation of 'casual gamers' will be less hostile and conspiracy minded about the market. Any thoughts?
I think an old saw applies here. "A fool and his money are soon parted."

There are many folks that, despite what they will tell you, don't WANT to be "rich", "uber", or "successful". And rather than admit this to themselves or others, they shift blame and complain that it cannot possibly be their fault.

So my prediction for the impact to the casual player is some few will believe the bar has been raised and allow themselves to have a little more. The mast majority will be unaffected but we may also see a brief surge in those that allow themselves to be enlightened in the ways of the market. Hail our new ebil brethren!

It's not how many times you get knocked down that count. It's how many times you get up.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight View Post
IMO, the last option is the best, since there's going to be virtually zero inf leaving the market come the next update (removing the transaction fees), which means inflation will spike.
Where have you gotten that they are removing transaction fees?

Edit: I didn't see you'd already been asked this and replied before I posted. I have been following this very closely, and I haven't seen anything to that effect.

Blue
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight View Post
The supplies in bases is going to be relatively minor (and mostly forgotten), and those on toons are unlikely to be unslotted unless the toon is intentionally being gutted. They're really not all that worth considering.
Really? I disagree with your point (I have hundreds of specific IOs in storage, and I am positive I am not the only one). And If someone were offering the right price to lead me to respec, I would do so.

The price right now is too low. For top end things, that is.

Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yomo_Kimyata View Post
To the first point, I think that if people put a couple of 1,000,000,000 bids out on some lvl 33 Kinetic Combat pieces, and they were able to communicate those bids (on these forums, perhaps), then they would get their supply pretty quick. That tells me that the current supply that is currently in bases and on toons are not coming to market because there is not enough incentive. Yeah, I took Econ 102 as well. Heck, I taught it in grad school, hopefully not to you, since I'm not sure you are understanding how demand and supply interact in a multi-period environment.
While I understand what you're saying, I'm willing to bet most of the low supply items on WW have high prices. It really depends on what you are counting as the source.

If they are low supply due to them being low supply drops (rares, purples etc) then the low supply drives UP prices.

However in reverse what you are saying is that sometimes the price effects supply and there are plenty available in game, just not in the market cos the prices aren't good enough.

I wouldn't call the later low supply as there clearly isn't enough demand to satisfy the supply hence the low prices. Sounds like that is oversupply to me.

 

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Originally Posted by JKCarrier View Post
Only to the extent that it will (at least initially) make it easier for casuals to pay the BUY IT NAO price, as they prefer. I don't think it will make people any more likely to learn how to "play" the market.
A million times this. Last night my roommate was doing a level 47 respec to get a final 50 IO build. He didn't have enough cash for everything, but I could not talk him into bidding what he had on him for one expensive recipe.

He said he would rather wait until the price came down or he had more money. Even though he's in the middle of putting together his final, unfinished build, he ended the night with zero bids on the market.

I highly doubt a bigger pool of cash would make him "play" the market.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by rsclark View Post
I highly doubt a bigger pool of cash would make him "play" the market.
This morning I was doing a small test seeing how easy it would be to buy up high supply low demand salvage to vendor. I was buying at 20-50 inf for the most part and while I was buying 10 or so stacks of 10 at a time someone else was buying the same stuff for 1000inf. Moral of the story is people are stupid.