Blizzard to remove the veil of anonymity
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-07-06 10:48 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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Except: |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Wrong.
When someone can issue a command in-game to return your RealID, you're boned. And, since the GMs direct a majority of tech support questions to the forums, forum use CANNOT be treated as "optional" |
1) The in-game command would be one of those things that would have needed to be changed.
2) They could have bypassed the second complaint by not requiring you to go to the forums for additional tech support. Which, to be honest, isn't something that should be happening in the first place to begin with.
But when it comes down to it, it doesen't change my original point: Blizzard planned to make a move people didn't like. People complained. Blizzard LISTENED. You don't have to "trust them", or continue to buy their products. But to continue to bash the hell out of them for *LISTENING* to the playerbase is idiotic.
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This is where we're going to have to disagree. Simply spending 15 minutes hashing their plans over with a real security professional would have gotten them the tongue-lashing for even thinking something like this was okay.|
Originally Posted by LiquidX
Except that in principle, it wasn't a bad idea.
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| Were there some legitimate concerns that needed to be addressed? Yes. But the idea itself wasn't a bad idea. |
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| And even if it WAS a truly bad idea, would you have prefer they just told their fanbase "[censored] it, quit your crying, and deal with it"? Or would you have prefered they listen, like they did? |
The fans dealt with it in the appropriate way. Penalizing Blizzard financially. Bypassing a nads-shot and kicking them firmly where they live. The pocketbook. They also hit them where Blizzard simply couldn't defend or silence. THE MEDIA. The company was made to look like a bunch of jackbooted imbeciles because of this.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Perhaps you don't understand what I'm doing.|
Originally Posted by LiquidX
But to continue to bash the hell out of them for *LISTENING* to the playerbase is idiotic.
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No. Not perhaps.
I'm not bashing them for (finally) listening to their players (after the players fought back in the media and monetarily).
I'm bashing them because they ever thought this idea was a Good Thing in the first place.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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If you are going to try to plead your case, let it stand on it's own merit. Obliquely referencing the "victimizability" of women (whether intentional or not) is a bit obsurd. Men get stalked, men get harassed and men can certainly get murdered. Reverse sexism should be made obvious where it occurs, and I try to do so... likewise with heterosexism (though that is not an issue here). And don't give me the statistics shpeal... because you just went out of your way to decry Venture's use of same.|
Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene
But yet for some reason stalking still happens, women still get harassed, women still get murdered.
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(Please note that I mean no offense by the above. It is stated bluntly so there is no misunderstanding about the content, not as an attempt to be a total d*****bag. Of course, you are free to label me as such if you wish.
)
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Then what I said wouldn't apply to you, now would it?
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Perhaps you don't understand what I'm doing.
No. Not perhaps. I'm not bashing them for (finally) listening to their players (after the players fought back in the media and monetarily). I'm bashing them because they ever thought this idea was a Good Thing in the first place. |
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Yeah. His name is Bobby Kotick.|
Originally Posted by Pouncer
I don't really think Blizzard is an evil company. I think some guy over there made a major boneheaded decision and I serously doubt they'll repeat it.
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-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
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And he will repeat it. This isn't his first bone-headed decision by far. As far as I can tell, the man's head is nothing but bone.
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Originally Posted by NinjaPirate
Yeah. His name is Bobby Kotick.
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i suspect there are horns and sixes as well |
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
And he will repeat it. This isn't his first bone-headed decision by far. As far as I can tell, the man's head is nothing but bone.
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There's no such thing as reverse sexism. I would think "reverse sexism" would mean not being sexist.|
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
If you are going to try to plead your case, let it stand on it's own merit. Obliquely referencing the "victimizability" of women (whether intentional or not) is a bit obsurd. Men get stalked, men get harassed and men can certainly get murdered. Reverse sexism should be made obvious where it occurs, and I try to do so... likewise with heterosexism (though that is not an issue here). And don't give me the statistics shpeal... because you just went out of your way to decry Venture's use of same.
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Also, the stuff I talked about? Stalkers harassing women? Happens far more often to women than men. Just being a woman playing a video game can often be enough to attract attention.
You misunderstood my criticism of Venture's use of statistics if you think I said any use of statistics was bad. What I said was that he's trying to use statistics to cloak the fact that this stuff happens, by pretending that it's okay to enable an increased amount of potential harassment and violence if it's a small amount, and implying that rather than one person being killed, maybe 1,000 people are each .1% murdered.
The murder was more a matter of abusive exes stalking their ex-wives and ex-girlfriends and trying or succeeding at killing them, something that happens more frequently than it should, and is a context that Ventrue tried to erase by just making the blanket statement that men are more likely to be murdered than women, and not looking at how women are often murdered.
Also, my argument was not about the victimizability of women. It was about how some (NOT ALL <-- NEON ******* LETTERS) men often try to victimize women. Of course all men don't try to victimize women, and it's true that some women victimizes men, but in the context of video games? I've heard lots of stories about women being stalked and harassed. I've been stalked and harassed. I honestly have never heard about men being stalked and harassed by women in video games.
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(Please note that I mean no offense by the above. It is stated bluntly so there is no misunderstanding about the content, not as an attempt to be a total d*****bag. Of course, you are free to label me as such if you wish. )
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Anyway, I'm dropping this now, and I hope you're willing to do the same.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
Mysterious coincidences!
Shortly after Blizzard announced this, I was asking a friend who plays CoH for information, and he pointed me at this thread. By a further amazing coincidence, a couple of hours later I had a trial account.
I may well end up resubbing to WoW, depending on how the rest of this plays out, but I am thus far finding CoH an interesting change. It's a hard sell for me, though, because fundamentally I want to kill internet dragons.
Still, CoH seems pretty friendly. Also, Levelling Pact, best idea ever. Awesome.
BTW, I am totally aware of the irony in posting by the name I'm most widely known by in order to gripe about how stupid it is to make people post under their "real names". Back in the late 80s, I mistakenly concluded that there was no need to worry much about privacy, and at this point, well, it's a bit late to change my mind.
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I have two objections to this argument.|
Originally Posted by LiquidX
Except you would have STILL had controll over your name and identity, BY NOT POSTING ON THEIR FORUMS. Keep in mind, forums are no way essential to a game. Look at CoH/V: It's widely been known that only around 1% of the playerbase is active on the forums.
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The first is that, for WoW, the forums are perhaps a bit more essential, in that if you want technical support, and it becomes non-trivial, you are nearly always advised to post in the forums. I've used the tech support forums, and they really are pretty good -- I've gotten correct answers to fairly tricky questions, quite quickly, when I've tried those forums. The same thing goes for customer service. With many requests, a post in the customer service forum will be resolved before you would have been done hitting redial if you were trying to call in. Now, it's true that most people aren't active in the forums, but it can be awfully useful to have the option.
The second is a more fundamental thing. If someone were to say "the forums are too busy, so we're instituting a new policy, women can't use the forums", no one would tolerate it for a second. No one would say "oh, it's okay, you can play the game, just don't use the forums." That the exact group of people who can't use the forums under that policy isn't as clearly a single well-defined protected class does not, IMHO, change the substance of the problem. There are people whose jobs require them not to post on forums under their own names, there are people trying to avoid stalkers, and there are women who don't really want to pick up that much harassment.
Honestly, though, I'm more offended by the dishonesty than I am by the details of the proposed change. Think about how much time Blizzard had spent explaining that Real ID was only for use with people you knew in real life. FWIW, in defense of Blizzard as such, there's multiple reports suggesting that the actual Blizzard employees hated this, and that it was a policy imposed/defined by Activision. Which, you know, totally makes a huge difference, right? :P
Still, if I went around expecting megacorps to be ethical or honest, I'd starve. I try to maintain reasonably low expectations of humanity.
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I'll put this line first... because it wouldn't make sense to respond to it at the end. (Obviously, I have not dropped it. However, I still stand by what I said before that NONE of that post was intended to be mean-spirited.)|
Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene
Anyway, I'm dropping this now, and I hope you're willing to do the same.
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| There's no such thing as reverse sexism. I would think "reverse sexism" would mean not being sexist. |
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Also, the stuff I talked about? Stalkers harassing women? Happens far more often to women than men. Just being a woman playing a video game can often be enough to attract attention. You misunderstood my criticism of Venture's use of statistics if you think I said any use of statistics was bad. What I said was that he's trying to use statistics to cloak the fact that this stuff happens, by pretending that it's okay to enable an increased amount of potential harassment and violence if it's a small amount, and implying that rather than one person being killed, maybe 1,000 people are each .1% murdered. |
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| Also, my argument was not about the victimizability of women. It was about how some (NOT ALL <-- NEON ******* LETTERS) men often try to victimize women. Of course all men don't try to victimize women, and it's true that some women victimizes men, but in the context of video games? I've heard lots of stories about women being stalked and harassed. I've been stalked and harassed. I honestly have never heard about men being stalked and harassed by women in video games. |
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| I wish people wouldn't say "I mean no offense" because that's usually out of your hands when you hit send, and usually the impulse to say it is the first sign you're about to step in something messy. Even so, I'm not offended by your complete misreading of my point, Thirty-Seven, I just wish you'd read more carefully before you decided to jump in with both feet. |
Second, I said that, because I KNEW it was likely that you would read some sort of argument with you into my post that wasn't there. I agree with you! I just wanted to make it clear that a bit of gender neutrality would have actually STRENGTHENED your point. You do no one any service by only mentioning the victimization of women.
How did I misread anything? I read what was written, as it was written. If what you wrote, wasn't what you meant, either change it, or put a disclaimer on it.
Well, there's lots of stuff I'd like to comment on, but I'll refrain, and say welcome to CoH Seebs, I hope you enjoy your stay.
Then I'd like to post this, have people draw their own conclusions, and say it, and situations like it, are far more common than some people seem to think, often getting too far ingame (and thanks to no real ID baloney, not getting /further/ than ingame... usually.)
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I can't speak for everyone, but I think you are misunderstanding what has happened. I don't think anyone is bashing them for listening, and I don't think the display of real names was the only problem. That they put it ingame, with pathetic security is horrific (never mind the concept by itself, there is no reason not to have cross server chat/friends with screen names instead). That they would try this at all is horrific. That they /still/ plan to push it is horrific. That there is no apology, or acknowledgment of any of this is disgusting. Read some of the links in this thread. Bobby Kotick of Activision is in charge of Blizzard now, and he wants to see this through. This is /not/ the last we've heard. And what we're mostly STILL upset with Blizzard about is that while they won't show real ID on the forums, THEY HAVE NOT REVERSED THEIR POLICIES OR MINDSET THAT TOOK THEM HERE.
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Originally Posted by LiquidX
People complained. Blizzard LISTENED. You don't have to "trust them", or continue to buy their products. But to continue to bash the hell out of them for *LISTENING* to the playerbase is idiotic.
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Having read a number of the posts on a fair few forums regarding this issue from both sides my initial thoughts remain the same.
I find it hard to believe that a company as large and sophisticated as Blizzard would not have foreseen the furore the REALID announcement would create, I therefore cry PR stunt on the part of Blizz.
I think the reaction by both the player base and the media have made this an unprecedented event and as the saying goes, there is no such thing as bad publicity.
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welcome to City of Heroes.|
Originally Posted by seebs
Mysterious coincidences!
Shortly after Blizzard announced this, I was asking a friend who plays CoH for information, and he pointed me at this thread. By a further amazing coincidence, a couple of hours later I had a trial account. I may well end up resubbing to WoW, depending on how the rest of this plays out, but I am thus far finding CoH an interesting change. It's a hard sell for me, though, because fundamentally I want to kill internet dragons. Still, CoH seems pretty friendly. Also, Levelling Pact, best idea ever. Awesome. BTW, I am totally aware of the irony in posting by the name I'm most widely known by in order to gripe about how stupid it is to make people post under their "real names". Back in the late 80s, I mistakenly concluded that there was no need to worry much about privacy, and at this point, well, it's a bit late to change my mind. |
May you enjoy our game.
A quick note: many servers have dedicated Badge or Teaming global channels. Joining your server's global channel community will aid in finding a continuous source of teams.
I pretty much agree, although I have gotten the impression from a couple of comments (including an email I got back from privacy@) that they may actually add an "alias" feature to Real ID. At which point it would, *poof*, instantly turn into a feature I could almost use -- and could use, if they let you use the alias for invites.
FWIW, I had two key arguments against Real ID forums. One, though much more emotionally persuasive to me, was irrelevant to most people; I have a transgendered friend who would, for a number of fairly obvious reasons, be unable to use any game feature that involves displaying your current legal name.
The one that I have found really effective, though, for arguing with people who think all you have to do is not troll and there's no risk to you for posting on forums, is this:
We had a trade channel troll in our guild for a while. We try to be cool about giving people second chances as long as they don't bring drama to the guild, but it was not a great fit. This guy was a legend on the server in terms of how many people had him on ignore, would drop group instantly if they saw him, and so on. Anyway, he got to be enough of a problem that he got kicked out of the guild. He responded by starting a thread in the forums accusing one of the guild officers of ninjaing some loot which, in fact, had never dropped. (A few weeks later, he transferred to a different faction so people wouldn't know him, which lasted a good three or four weeks, now he's got the same reputation again.)
Here's the thing. This guy holds grudges like you wouldn't believe. He says, quite often, that it is his duty to retaliate when people disrespect him or injure him.
What do you think would happen if any officer of the guild that kicked him ever posted in the guild recruitment forum under their real name?
This is why the whole notion was stupid.
Thanks for the welcome. CoH is a pretty big shift from what I'm used to, and I'm still finding the interface a bit confusing, but I think I'll keep a subscription. Even if I don't play it all the time, it looks pretty fun, and the community and developers seem pretty awesome compared to the cesspits of the Blizz forums. (To be fair, there's some awesome people in WoW. They're just spread a little thin among all the nutjobs.)
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I have a dedicated source of a very small team, because I'm playing with my spouse. We've been facerolling through newbie content despite not knowing how to play, but we're getting better.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
A quick note: many servers have dedicated Badge or Teaming global channels. Joining your server's global channel community will aid in finding a continuous source of teams.
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I may be forced to tone down my roleplaying instincts, though. Normally, if I'm playing "a hero", I can't just ignore someone being mugged, but I seem to get slowed down a lot by this attitude...
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I didn't say I thought you were mean-spirited, I told you I didn't take offense. I suggested that saying "no offense" is generally a bad move because if you feel the need to say it, you're probably saying something that could be said better.|
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
I'll put this line first... because it wouldn't make sense to respond to it at the end. (Obviously, I have not dropped it. However, I still stand by what I said before that NONE of that post was intended to be mean-spirited.)
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As I said, I'm not continuing this. I didn't read your response, I don't intend to read your response. I've made my points.
I will actually suggest one last thing: You seem to assume that my examples were meant to cover the entirety of what was wrong with this policy. I suggest you consider what I wrote to be examples of what could go wrong.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Although, any reasonable, empathic human being would in fact see this as persuasive because to do otherwise is to advocate harm (whether it's social or potentially physical) against another human being. But maybe I have impossibly high standards!|
Originally Posted by seebs
I pretty much agree, although I have gotten the impression from a couple of comments (including an email I got back from privacy@) that they may actually add an "alias" feature to Real ID. At which point it would, *poof*, instantly turn into a feature I could almost use -- and could use, if they let you use the alias for invites.
FWIW, I had two key arguments against Real ID forums. One, though much more emotionally persuasive to me, was irrelevant to most people; I have a transgendered friend who would, for a number of fairly obvious reasons, be unable to use any game feature that involves displaying your current legal name. |
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| The one that I have found really effective, though, for arguing with people who think all you have to do is not troll and there's no risk to you for posting on forums, is this: |
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Welcome indeed. We actually DO have the alias system here on CoH. You have a Global Name, beginning with "@". Send a tell to that and you send one to whatever character you've logged on with. But there's no way to get your real name with it. We're superheroes, after all. We respect secret identities. |
Originally Posted by seebs
I have a dedicated source of a very small team, because I'm playing with my spouse. We've been facerolling through newbie content despite not knowing how to play, but we're getting better.
I may be forced to tone down my roleplaying instincts, though. Normally, if I'm playing "a hero", I can't just ignore someone being mugged, but I seem to get slowed down a lot by this attitude... |
Also here's a free syntax tip. Tells in CoH are formatted "/tell [name], [message]". Remember that comma. Everyone makes that mistake when they come from another MMO.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
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Originally Posted by seebs
I may well end up resubbing to WoW, depending on how the rest of this plays out, but I am thus far finding CoH an interesting change. It's a hard sell for me, though, because fundamentally I want to kill internet dragons.
Still, CoH seems pretty friendly. Also, Levelling Pact, best idea ever. Awesome. |
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Originally Posted by seebs
I have a dedicated source of a very small team, because I'm playing with my spouse. We've been facerolling through newbie content despite not knowing how to play, but we're getting better.
I may be forced to tone down my roleplaying instincts, though. Normally, if I'm playing "a hero", I can't just ignore someone being mugged, but I seem to get slowed down a lot by this attitude... |
CoH IS pretty friendly.
I've played a handful of MMOs including a couple of years in WOW. I keep coming back here.If you are faceplanting a lot, please send a cry for help out on the broadcast or global channels. There are heroes in this game, after all, and several veterans love to assist and train new players (the villains tolerate and help you, too.
)As to dragons, yeah, we killed them all. lol. (Well, we did leave the Archvillain Dra'Gon for you.) But when you're strong enough, do go take 16 or more of your friends and tackle Lusca, the giant octopus invading Independence Port. It will require a bit of coordination and strategy. We've got several Giant Monsters class beasties, actually, on both hero and villain sides.
As to the heroic rp, I tend to see anything grey as not there, and anything not tied to my missions as not there. Otherwise, it would be like trying to clean out the cemeteries of Duskwood. A noble cause, but the game mechanics keep resetting them behind you.
I don't see why this is a big deal.
Just set up a proxy identity, and pay for your account using gamecards/Giftcards.
Easily done.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
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If your account is already set up, you cannot do this.|
Originally Posted by Test_Rat
I don't see why this is a big deal.
Just set up a proxy identity, and pay for your account using gamecards/Giftcards. Easily done. |
I certainly am not starting over on a new account with a fake name after all the work I've put into my current account. Like hell!
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Welcome to City of Heroes! Though, if you have good taste, welcome to City of Villains! |
Originally Posted by seebs
Mysterious coincidences!
Shortly after Blizzard announced this, I was asking a friend who plays CoH for information, and he pointed me at this thread. By a further amazing coincidence, a couple of hours later I had a trial account. I may well end up resubbing to WoW, depending on how the rest of this plays out, but I am thus far finding CoH an interesting change. It's a hard sell for me, though, because fundamentally I want to kill internet dragons. Still, CoH seems pretty friendly. Also, Levelling Pact, best idea ever. Awesome. BTW, I am totally aware of the irony in posting by the name I'm most widely known by in order to gripe about how stupid it is to make people post under their "real names". Back in the late 80s, I mistakenly concluded that there was no need to worry much about privacy, and at this point, well, it's a bit late to change my mind. |
We're excited to have no players, so don't hesitate to ask any questions. There's no shame in being a newb here. Bombard us with "Which key is the 'any' key?"
PM me if you have any issues, and feel free to update us as you learn the game. We'd love to hear opinions, too.
Rock on, Seebs, buddy. You've made the right choice.
When someone can issue a command in-game to return your RealID, you're boned.
And, since the GMs direct a majority of tech support questions to the forums, forum use CANNOT be treated as "optional"
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.