Sooo when is MA going to be adjusted?

I like hearing your opinions about how you will change the set when the devs give you the green light to do so.

Either your opinion of yourself is lost in the stratosphere, or the dev's really are out of ideas to the point they will hand it over to you.

Anyway, the fact that you don't realize why a crippling attack would do slow and immobilize is humorous. Moreso why you don't realize the rationale for setting it at mag 2. But it is topped by you thinking it should be the jumping off point to re-balancing the set, when if done properly it would be the second last power touched (assuming we aren't allowed to go after provoke, which means yes, tweaked even after buildup).

I'd love to hear why you think I'm wrong, but I doubt you have anything to say that extends beyond what you've already stated in this thread. Which has been underwhelming so far.

I hope you do get your shot at re-balancing MA. I'd like to see your great ideas come in to play as I'm sure you are just being humble and have much better plans than you've expressed so far. Yes I know that is a farfetched premise, but what are we without hope?. Likely outcome is it becomes another toon I stop playing, but that's not a really big deal to me.

Edit: /signed for the changes Umbral just proposed. I'd like to add a long duration dot to cobra strike when used with focus chi as it fits in my mind. Those changes would push MA up to being one of the most enjoyable sets imo. I'm curious how knockup and knockback work at the same time though, ie when they both proc on crane kick? which effect takes precedence?

Non single target damage means that the power is greatly nerfed dmg wise in PvP in addition to your scaled nerf already...

Sorry but this suggestion is bad... and tbh annoys me too because you are suggesting and asking dev's to take away something that many pvp'rs enjoy.

Suggesting changes to powers that only benefit your category of play style (pve) is very selfish.

PvP'ers have taken enough nerfage for the sake of non pvp'rs already.
Enough is enough!

Will do.


The devs are not out of ideas yet, so I'm going to have to go with (a), final answer.


If only you knew the level of restraint I'm required to apply here. Its actually a luxury I hope you fully appreciate, being a smart-***. Trust me when I say you'd miss it if it was gone.

Sorry that post made about as much sense as buying a Zebra and calling it Spot.

I don't see where the 15 frames of animation will come from. BaB squeezed out the pause in the backflip already just to get it down to 2.53s.

Actually, the pause is still there. It's smaller than it used to be, but it's still present.

Honestly, I really don't care where those frames come from. I'm completely fed up with having to deal with long animation times making powers virtually useless just because BABs wants to make 'em pretty. As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't really matter what it looks like as long as the animation time is appropriate for the power to effective and the animation makes sense. That should be Castle's primary concern as well. It should be up to BABs to make the most out of the animation time that Castle gives him.

Ever since Dual Pistols hit test, I've had to imagine that this conversation takes place every time a set is designed:

I can't think of any other reason why there would be so many attacks that are so much longer than they have any reason to be now that we know how animation time affects performance. In all honesty, the powers guys should be setting strict animation time budgets for each power and telling BABs to do what he can with those. From what I've heard from Castle, it seems that he's a lot softer on animation time restrictions than he should be.

I realize that it's going to piss off a lot of people, but animation time shouldn't be under the authority of the animation guys which it seems like it has and likely always will be. It affects the performance of a power more than almost any other attribute nowadays because it has no guiding principle behind it other than a vague heuristic where the devs decide aesthetics and performance collide, regardless of whether that collision renders what should be a powerful power useless because it takes too long to do anything.

Agreed

I'd say probably because a majority of us want pretty animations.

Suggesting changes just because you want to gain an untoward advantage in your specific play area of interest is similarly selfish, especially when your suggestion is directly counter to the very reason why the power is largely useless in the first place.

The CoX engine is a joke for PvP. If PvP was really a high priority for devs, there would be a lot more happening than the little changes that occur that don't really do much to make the entire system operate better. If you can't tell that, then I'm not sure why you're even here.

You're suggesting that changes that would greatly improve the effectiveness of a power and powerset in PvE where it is used substantially more often (do you really want to try and argue this?) should be cast aside exclusively because they would negatively affect your performance in PvP (which is still kinda funny when you realize just how powerful EC already is in PvP and you just want to make it stronger). Personally, I don't think the devs should apply the AoE damage nerf to the power (especially since it's largely there as a bonus to the power, not as a fundamental attribute of it). I'm not even sure why that rule exists in the first place since it's not like players stand around together allowing you to get huge gains out of AoEs, and AoE powers already take penalties to end and rech because they can affect multiple targets.

I'm also rather amused that you didn't comment on the sheer plethora of secondary effects and mez effects that the set would get in "exchange" for the EC "nerf" in PvP (though that would assume you want the set to not be able to 2 shot anything you see in Siren's Call and would rather see it perform on a roughly similar level to the rest of the melee sets; go figure).

Pretty doesn't have to mean "takes longer than it has any right to where performance is concerned". Katana is actually a very aesthetically attractive set, but it's not hindered by long animation times. If anything, those fast animations make it look better because it looks like you're actually fighting and not just striking a new pose every 2 seconds.

If Castle simply gave BABs a number and told him to do the best he could with it, I doubt we'd suddenly see a drop in prettiness. I have confidence that BABs is a skilled enough animator that he can actually make a 1.5 second punch look just as good as a 2 second punch, especially since the problem with so many of the actual problem animations is dramatic slowing or outright pauses that just look silly and annoying after the second time you see it.

If what you are implying is true, then my respect for the powers team just hit the floor. Nothing personal, but if they are handing the set over to a player to rebalance then all I can do is laugh.

I don't really care about your personal restraint. Honestly I can't express how little it impacts me, but if you want me to put the importance of a video game into perspective just ask. It probably won't make you happy though. This just goes to show how high your head is in the clouds and if Castle handed the set over to you I hope he is embarrassed to show his face at the office. Best of luck with it though, you will absolutely need it if they acknowledge you as the designer and you don't have a red name to shelter you.

Definitely looking forward to you living up to your self proclaimed brilliance with this set.

I agree. As a single event some of the long animations are aesthetically pleasing, but when you chain them together it is often the faster sets that become the most visually attractive especially when the power effects start being taken in to consideration rather than just the animation.

Let's take one of my favorite sets...Dual Blades. My two favorite attacks in the set purely on the animation side of things?

Vengeful Slice (2.64 animation) and Typhoons Edge (2.508 animation). Those are considered long animations.

Eagle's Claw...long animation.

And do you really think those animations would lose their luster if they were sped up a bit?

Is it me, or are you bashing Arcana for bashing suggestions from Umbral, who bashes suggestions from others himself? o.O

Then going on a tirade about it?

Actually...yes. For those two in Dual Blades, it just might. I really can't see anywhere in those two animations where anything could be cut without making it look choppy.

It's kinda like some of the punches added in Martial Arts. They're kept with the animation time of the original kicks, but they don't flow as well.

Eagle's Claw...hmmm...maybe. I have to admit, I like the hang time, which I recall used to be longer.

It's just you.

First, I'd like to defend myself by saying that I try to only bash bad ideas and then provide the logical underpinnings for the reasons why those are bad ideas. I rarely if ever simply say "bad idea" unless I feel that it should be self-explanatory,

Second, I don't think Arcanaville is bashing my ideas so much as calling into question the capacity for them to be brought to bear (and, even then, only one of them: reducing EC's animation time without changing everything people like about it). If anything, Arcanaville comments very little on the suggestions I make and tends to focus on the general game design interactions that I make reference to (something I've always found kinda strange since I've always expected her to throw some math at me when I'm throwing down with set design). Here, the "debate" that she and I entered into was largely one of suggestion direction (what basic concepts the suggestion should operate under and what directions it should go in) that I think the both of us arrived at a largely amicable agreement on (though Arcanaville and I generally only ever argue on very abstract game design concepts that prevent a de facto "correct" answer from ever really being established).

Here's another post that you will have to defend yourself from.



- Yes true, that's why I suggest you leave the set alone, only thing I mentioned before was Focus Chi and that was because it related to a previous post saying make FC like Rage, not exactly but unsure how it would differ.
So that was an example... I didn't quote figures, %'s this should be that and that should be this etc etc...

So if that is the suggestion that you refer to, explain how Build Up is the very reason why the power is largely useless in the first place. <-- ( your words btw)

- The CoX engine for pvp is not the topic for debate, neither is the priority in which the dev's rate it.. so tbh if you can't tell that i'm not the one that shouldn't be in forums.

Yes your changes that benefit you to make the powerset the way you like it should be cast aside, I suggest that that if you want a PvE set go play with Dual Blades or Electric Melee, you know, the two brand new powersets that have been given specificallty with PvE in mind.

and to reply to your little in comment dig....

You obviously don't know me, and yes I will argue this til you give up or /ignore me.
And I very much doubt that MA is used substantially more in PvE than PvP. As it it a primarily PvP set!

Seriously where you getting this from? I didn't suggest a change to EC.

What secondary effects are worth nerfing your teir 9 for damage on a scrapper ???
If I wanted a controller guess what I would roll. ... Duh!

I don't pvp in SC tyvm





Sooooooooooo,

In conclusion your idea to change MA into a PvE set is selfish and narrowminded.

How about we ask the devs to make all other PvE sets single target damage, you wouldn't like that would you?

Was BABs doing animations at release?

Even if he was, animation time wasn't considered in balance equations back then.

The cottage rule definitely applies here. Significantly changing a flashy animation that people love would tick off a large portion of the playerbase. However....

Those powers manage to squeeze more actions into their animation time than Eagle's Claw does. They look faster. Which is why I think it's feasible for Eagle's Claw to be sped up and still keep it's basic uber-cool animation intact.

Apparently when they initially designed MA there was a crystal ball floating around, that told the devs "you will be introducing PvP a year from now. Then a few years after that you will be completely changing PvP so it works completely differently from PvE. You'd better give the players a powerset that will be strong in the new PvP."

I don't remember power animations being different or it being discussed as something possible.

That said, the argument of not changing something for fear of nerfing its PVP effectiveness is ludicrous seeing as we're talking about 3 or 4 players, tops.