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I'm only implying that you have no idea what you're talking about. And the devs would never hand any component of the game over to "a player" for any purpose much less rebalancing.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
If what you are implying is true, then my respect for the powers team just hit the floor. Nothing personal, but if they are handing the set over to a player to rebalance then all I can do is laugh.
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On the other hand, I don't see how it could be interpreted as anything but an attempt at a personal insult to imply the powers team would have to be severely impaired to trust anything I have to say about powerset balance. Whether that's more of an insult towards me, or them, is debatable. We are in agreement, though, that its funny.
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At the moment, not really possible.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
I don't remember power animations being different or it being discussed as something possible.
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I never got the impression that Umbral and Arcana were bashing each other either. It seemed more like a spirited debate over CAK for starters and then game balancing overall and each other's opinions of the Devs standpoint.
Frosticus on the other hand, seems to have a chip on his shoulder (still not sure why).
Myself I would be interested in seeing how some of the suggested changes (Umbral's in particular) effect overall survival and DPS of MA compared with current primaries (especially Dark). This would be the real telling factor in whether its reasonable.
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To the best of my understanding, the bickering here was not about animation time changes but about changing Eagle's Claw from a high single target damage attack to a mid-high ST and low AoE attack. I'm pretty sure that by tweaking the damage numbers of the ST and AoE components of such an attack, it could be one in PvP and the other in PvE, eliminating the need for that discussion to even be happening.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I don't remember power animations being different or it being discussed as something possible.
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On a more personal note, I really wish that "make it like Thunder Strike" wasn't the go-to easy solution for high-tier, high-damage, low-DPA single target attacks. I'm well aware that the balancing equations make AoE ludicrously more efficient than ST in PvE, but heaping more undifferentiated AoE powers onto underperforming sets seems like the least interesting solution.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
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Thank god. So your nebulous ramblings were just that. While you've proven you are the supreme armchair quarterback around here (congrats I guess) we'll just have to agree to disagree about who has a clue or not considering you think CAK is the jumping off point.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I'm only implying that you have no idea what you're talking about. And the devs would never hand any component of the game over to "a player" for any purpose much less rebalancing.
On the other hand, I don't see how it could be interpreted as anything but an attempt at a personal insult to imply the powers team would have to be severely impaired to trust anything I have to say about powerset balance. Whether that's more of an insult towards me, or them, is debatable. We are in agreement, though, that its funny. |
I actually breathed a sigh of relief with the information you just revealed. One it restores some of my faith in the developer team because it puts your statements about how
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
When I finally get MA looked at, you'll know it when CAK is significantly altered.
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It's my mistake though I failed to see where you said
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
For a variety of reasons I can't discuss, I've basically taken every idea I've ever had for buffing MA and set them on fire. But I've started rethinking the entire process from scratch based on the current state of the game and the latest greatest game engine mechanics. After Going Rogue launches, I'm going to take a brand new approach to reconceptualizing the design of MA.
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As is often the case 20 minutes I'll never get back from speaking to you, but maybe in another 10 posts you'll berate someone else and finally reveal whatever information you are sitting on and we can all continue on with our lives. Until then, cheers.
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About MA? Not really. I'm in no real position to hide anything about MA specifically. All I said was that as soon as Going Rogue releases, I'm going to make it a priority to get the devs to reopen the design of MA. And I don't do that by telling Castle "go look at MA." That's not really my way. I'll present an actual reference design for MA and discuss it with him (or someone else on the powers team): that's more my style.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
As it got drowned out by you reminiscing about the good old days. It's funny you say something like this and then speak with such absolution about how you'd go after CAK first, but I'll just assume as usual you have some information that none of us do and you are now lording it over us.
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My ability to make progress on such an endeavor is what it is, and that's all I'm saying about that. If you think I'm "the supreme armchair quarterback around here" then that ability is strictly limited. For anyone else that thinks otherwise, this is just an opportunity to think aloud, before I settle in on what that reference point design will look like.
While I'm on the subject, Umbral mentioned that I haven't commented too much on the details of most of his suggestions. The reason for that is that while I normally recommend, and normally follow, the rule that small tweaks are better than dramatic changes, beacuse they are much more likely to be acceptable to the devs, this is the one case where I'm going to break that rule myself and seek out dramatic (mechanically) changes. Things like changing TK to mag 1 + 10% mag 1 are actually old suggestions: going all the way back to when Tk's stun was first changed. A year ago, I would have agreed with the suggestion as being both fair and reasonable. Today, for a variety of reasons I think its insufficiently dramatic of a change, at least on its own. As I said, I'm breaking the very rule I recommend to other players when making powerset suggestions in attempting to propose a more complex set of changes. As a result, I'm taking the calculated gamble that in swinging for the fences I'll strike out completely. But I've been playing this game with MA for a long time, and I think now's the time to do so. That's just me.
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Fair enough. I overlooked that part, and apologize for the somewhat sarcastic reply.
| To the best of my understanding, the bickering here was not about animation time changes but about changing Eagle's Claw from a high single target damage attack to a mid-high ST and low AoE attack. I'm pretty sure that by tweaking the damage numbers of the ST and AoE components of such an attack, it could be one in PvP and the other in PvE, eliminating the need for that discussion to even be happening |
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It's not the easy go-to solution.|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
To the best of my understanding, the bickering here was not about animation time changes but about changing Eagle's Claw from a high single target damage attack to a mid-high ST and low AoE attack. I'm pretty sure that by tweaking the damage numbers of the ST and AoE components of such an attack, it could be one in PvP and the other in PvE, eliminating the need for that discussion to even be happening.
On a more personal note, I really wish that "make it like Thunder Strike" wasn't the go-to easy solution for high-tier, high-damage, low-DPA single target attacks. I'm well aware that the balancing equations make AoE ludicrously more efficient than ST in PvE, but heaping more undifferentiated AoE powers onto underperforming sets seems like the least interesting solution. |
The easy go-to solution is to just increase it's damage, and thusly rch/end cost...basically be like Total Focus. Which works for me.
If they put it on the same recharge/end cost as Total Focus, and thusly the same damage, I'd be okay with it.
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Guess what I've seen recommended more than once as a fix to Total Focus. There's a reason I said "high tier high damage low DPA ST attack".|
Originally Posted by BrandX
It's not the easy go-to solution.
The easy go-to solution is to just increase it's damage, and thusly rch/end cost...basically be like Total Focus. Which works for me. If they put it on the same recharge/end cost as Total Focus, and thusly the same damage, I'd be okay with it. |
More generally, there are three suggestions that always come up whenever any ST attack is singled out for poor performance:
1. Increase damage.
2. Decrease animation.
3. Make it an AoE.
These are boring to me. I generally see this as an opportunity to do something bizarre instead. But, as I said, that's a personal preference.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
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Quote:
Is it sad that I'm also waiting for GoRo to release, not because I want to play in Praetoria or because I want to play with the new sets, but rather because I want Castle and the powers team to have their free time back so I can get them to start working on other powerset suggestions I've got? Curse the GoRo workload!|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
About MA? Not really. I'm in no real position to hide anything about MA specifically. All I said was that as soon as Going Rogue releases, I'm going to make it a priority to get the devs to reopen the design of MA.
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| And I don't do that by telling Castle "go look at MA." That's not really my way. I'll present an actual reference design for MA and discuss it with him (or someone else on the powers team): that's more my style. |
I'm curious about what your "swing for the fences" approach would look like, though. I thought I was being pretty liberal with the secondary effects in my suggestion (well, not spectacularly liberal, but definitely to such an extent that each power had a better secondary effect than any other power of the same power level), so I'd be curious how you would go completely over the top and yet still manage to put out something balanced (though "swinging for the fences" for you might equate to giving Castle pretty good reasons to break the Cottage Rule, which is something that I definitely go out of my way to avoid asking for).
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I try to be a good boy, but noooooo! Gotta go and change the rules on me. /e grumbles|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
As I said, I'm breaking the very rule I recommend to other players when making powerset suggestions in attempting to propose a more complex set of changes. As a result, I'm taking the calculated gamble that in swinging for the fences I'll strike out completely.
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Imma standard code rant myself here before I even start
Thunder Kick - mag 2 KUp
Cobra strike - remove stun, up damage to 79.8, -15% res 15s Does not stack with self
Crane Kick - Mag 4 KUp, 60% chance for Mag6 KB after a delay to make it look like a cool matrix-esque arc.
Crippling Axe Kick / -fly 1.6, runspd -40, jmpspd -40, -10% res 10s Does not stack with self
Dragon's Tail - Increase radius to 10ft
Eagle's Claw - Remove stun, add -10% res for 10s, increase crit chance to 20%, add a mag7 KUp delayed to the jump of the enemy part of the animation, and a reverse knockback delayed to the flip part of the animation. Make it look like you tossed the enemy with a suicide throw.
Now I haven't seen the code for the game so I don't know how knockback is coded, but I am curious as to why reverse knockback is not doable without engine reworking.
If you have programed an effect added to an enemy that overides control and forces animations and movement relative to two entities for one direction, why is it somehow more difficult for the other direction?
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I'm going to guess, based on the way that other effects work, that negative knockback isn't "knockback in the other direction" - it's knockback protection.
I have a question, actually, since I've seen more than one person suggest knockup as an effect of Crane Kick. What makes you feel that Crane Kick, as it is animated, should knock an enemy upwards rather than backwards? It looks like a very strong horizontal force to me.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
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Quote:
Its hard to be specific at the moment without getting into trouble. Let me toss out some non-specific ideas that I've been kicking around for several months now, but haven't completely nailed down into numbers and such yet.| I'm curious about what your "swing for the fences" approach would look like, though. |
MA is a single-target focused set. I don't want to change that. I'm not a believer in the "AoE is everything, anything without AoE is gimp" theory of powerset balance. But I do think that given the power of AoE, single target sets have to be particularly good at it. There are a number of ways to be a really effective single-target focused powerset. DM has one way: stacking tohit debuff is *really* effective when you are focused on just a few targets. Another possibility are the stacking -RES in sonic blast. Sonic attack does have multiple AoEs so its not AoE deficient, but it does excel in focusing damage on single targets because of its escalating resistance debuff.
These effects already exist. I'm interested in looking at new effects that don't exist and could be made special to MA, like combos are for Dual Blades. One possibility, I thought, was to have MA attacks "tag" their targets with a very brief duration tag. They would also check for the presence of the tag and based on the presence of the tag increase the critical chance of the attack. So repeated attacks against the same target would give MA an increased critical hit chance. This increases MA damage against single targets (dragon's tail wouldn't deliver the tag or check the tag) without actually buffing the base damage of any of its powers. This would be "situational" damage, and that means its under the discretion of the designer, not the formula.
I've always suspected that Focus Chi was going to be something other than Build Up at the beginning of time, and then the devs ran out of time and copied Build Up. When you look at the original scrapper secondaries, it looks like the devs *started* to try to come up with original boost powers. Broadsword (and its pseudo-cousin Katana) and Spines had Build Up. Claws has Follow Up. Dark Melee has Soul Drain. Martial Arts has Focus Chi, but its a Build Up clone. Its I believe the only Build Up clone not actually called Build Up in the original released powersets. They named it, then didn't design it.
Unfortunately, people like Build Up so the cottage rule prevents making an exotic Build Up. I suggested many times in the past replacing BU with PBU (actually, that suggestion predates PBU) but with rebalanced numbers, just because it preserves the functionality of BU. But that's kinda boring to me now.
Here's a *really* exotic idea for BU in terms of mechanics that I think, of all the ideas I have on paper, has the *least* chance of getting added to the game, but I still think is a cool idea. Its one I've been thinking about for a while in terms of whether its possible to do within the confines of the current game engine, regardless of crazy twisted implementation, or really requires new tech. I think the latter, but I'm still not sure. Suppose BU's recharge was cut in *half*, from 90s to 45s. And suppose further that after you activate BU, when BU expires a self-suppression power kicks in that cuts the buff of BU in half, which lasts for 90s.
In other words, when you use BU, you get a full strength BU. It recharges in 45s. But if you use it again between 45s and 90s after use, you only get a half strength BU. So you have a choice: get half the strength twice as often, or full strength half as often. Now *that*'s an exotic mechanic, but it doesn't actually change what you can do with the power, except for having to explain to players that if they use it immediately it won't be at full strength. That right there might be the critical stumbling block to the whole idea: players won't expect such a radical change in gameplay controls.
The other problem is that when you slot BU, somehow the suppression power has to reduce in duration to match the recharge of BU, and I don't know how to do that yet without asking for code. But I think that would be a way to give MA a really unique Build Up that nevertheless can be used exactly like the current BU now.
(One possible way to mimic this behavior would be to give the player two powers when they select Focus Chi, one with half strength and 45s recharge and the other identical to the current BU, each of which suppresses the other when used. But while the precedent for that option was set with Dual Pistols, I don't think its one the devs are eager to repeat. And slotting gets *real* ugly).
CAK is the power that singularly sits there mocking me in my tray. Its secondary effects are, without rehashing that debate, pitiful. But if I overload the power with a rainbow of effects designed to stack with other powers, I run the risk of buffing Martial Arts by buffing the power least often taken, which is not something I want to do. I already chewed the devs out for increasing the cross-synergy in SR to the point where losing *any* of the six defensive powers radically reduces survivability, a feature no other defensive set can claim. But I also don't want a weak CAK. That makes it ground zero for resolving the secondary effect problem: how to grant more secondary effects in a way that won't require the entire set to leverage, but in a way where each power's secondary effects are distinctly valuable *and* all reasonable combinations of powers have a combined secondary effect total that is reasonable.
There's a couple ways I'm thinking about I can't really mention yet, but one off the wall idea I actually had long ago, that was originally shot down for technical reasons I now think I can overcome, is to create a new pseudo-effect called "stagger." Stagger would actually be a grantpower: it would grant the target a special passive that had a percentage chance to induce a knockdown to self. So basically, while under the influence of this power, targets would occasionally fall down. That works quite well as a complement to immobilize/slow, the concept of the power, and as damage mitigation. It would have to be very carefully moderated in PvP of course, and there would need to be some thought put into how to deal with higher ranked targets. If I make the effect resistable, anything that buffs knockback resistance will nullify the effect. Conversely, if its unresistable it will be knocking down AVs and Giant Monsters. I think this needs to be "target=" specific. Maybe unresistable to minions and the like, resistable to EBs and higher. I've honestly not spent enough time on this idea to fully flesh out the numbers on it, because I have other alternatives I'm also working on, but this was actually near the top of my list for CAK before I began pursuing other slightly more set-synergistic ideas.
Why CAK is a good place to start here is that its the standard for secondary effects across the set. Once you decide what to do with CAK, you can decide how strong the secondary effects should be for the rest of the powerset. If "stagger" ends up being an appropriate effect in terms of power, you can use that to guide whether the stun in TK is appropriate, or the knockdown percentage in Dragon's Tail, or whether EC should have knockdown also. But if you go the other way around, buffing EC and TK first, you'll probably paint yourself into a corner and have nowhere to go with CAK. CAK is the place to try out exotic ideas, because its so obviously underpowered. It therefore gives a lot of latitude in what will work and not work. And if you get the right exotic idea into CAK, you can let that spill over into other powers in a way that keeps the set on a relatively even keel.
That's sort of what I'm talking about when I'm talking about more mechanically unusual effects. They aren't necessarily stellar in net effect, they are still intended to fit into the balance requirements of the set. But they try to do so while honoring the cottage rule and also inventing very particularly interesting effects unique to MA. This might give a better idea of at least the general direction I'm heading in.
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Knockback is actually two separate effects. Knockback is a *mez* and its a *physics effect*.|
Originally Posted by William_Valence
Now I haven't seen the code for the game so I don't know how knockback is coded, but I am curious as to why reverse knockback is not doable without engine reworking.
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Knockback the mez has only magnitude. Negative magnitude is protection from knock. Positive magnitude is knock. Its actually directionless: its not a vector.
*If* you are knocked, that information is passed to the physics engine of the game, which looks at where you are, where the source of the knock is, the magnitude of the knock, and does its thing. The game "engine" itself has no real control over this. It cannot say "knock this way please." The physics engine, as far as I've been told, does this all by itself.
So there is no way for the powers system to tell the physics engine "knock, but the other way." That type of directional information isn't passed from powers engine to physics engine. So it would require rewriting that entire interface between the two. Its been suggested to me that gouging ones eyes out with a number two pencil is a more attractive option to untangling the code for that feature.
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Well, in my suggestion, it's largely there because I see the power as simply being an attempt to bowl the target over. The KU exists simply to demonstrate that you've simply pushed the target over (which is why the mag is so low) and they need to stand up, whereas the KB is what happens when you outright knock him off his feet. Knockup, as an effect, is largely a way to allow for higher mag knockback while preventing the target from getting thrown away from you.
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
I have a question, actually, since I've seen more than one person suggest knockup as an effect of Crane Kick. What makes you feel that Crane Kick, as it is animated, should knock an enemy upwards rather than backwards? It looks like a very strong horizontal force to me.
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Slotting shouldn't be too bad, having 50% damage buff and 50% damage buff that suppresses for 80s after 10s is really interesting.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Here's a *really* exotic idea for BU in terms of mechanics that I think, of all the ideas I have on paper, has the *least* chance of getting added to the game, but I still think is a cool idea. Its one I've been thinking about for a while in terms of whether its possible to do within the confines of the current game engine, regardless of crazy twisted implementation, or really requires new tech. I think the latter, but I'm still not sure. Suppose BU's recharge was cut in *half*, from 90s to 45s. And suppose further that after you activate BU, when BU expires a self-suppression power kicks in that cuts the buff of BU in half, which lasts for 90s.
In other words, when you use BU, you get a full strength BU. It recharges in 45s. But if you use it again between 45s and 90s after use, you only get a half strength BU. So you have a choice: get half the strength twice as often, or full strength half as often. Now *that*'s an exotic mechanic, but it doesn't actually change what you can do with the power, except for having to explain to players that if they use it immediately it won't be at full strength. That right there might be the critical stumbling block to the whole idea: players won't expect such a radical change in gameplay controls. |
Have the suppression duration equal to ((80+10)/(1+rech%slotted))-10 should let you modify both the power recharge and the suppression duration at the same time.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Knockback is actually two separate effects. Knockback is a *mez* and its a *physics effect*.
Knockback the mez has only magnitude. Negative magnitude is protection from knock. Positive magnitude is knock. Its actually directionless: its not a vector. *If* you are knocked, that information is passed to the physics engine of the game, which looks at where you are, where the source of the knock is, the magnitude of the knock, and does its thing. The game "engine" itself has no real control over this. It cannot say "knock this way please." The physics engine, as far as I've been told, does this all by itself. So there is no way for the powers system to tell the physics engine "knock, but the other way." That type of directional information isn't passed from powers engine to physics engine. So it would require rewriting that entire interface between the two. Its been suggested to me that gouging ones eyes out with a number two pencil is a more attractive option to untangling the code for that feature. |
A knockback physics effect may not have an angle or vector, but if it checks the location of the source of the effect and forces a move in relation to that location, my idea still has hope.
With pull, you wouldn't be saying knock the other way, you would be telling the physics engine to apply pull effect. The pull effect itself would be added to the engine, and when called up causes motion in the direction of the source similar to how knockback causes motion away from the source.
Now I could be oversimplifying things, or knockback could have been made over complicated and convoluted at the begining and it's too much trouble to fix, but I just don't understand how at the moment. Maybe I never will but whatever.
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What are your opinions on my method for instituting the same stylistic effect? Personally, I think it's a better solution than simply providing the power with baseline secondary effect augmentation because, honestly, unless you can get the mez on the target, increasing the duration doesn't really help you much.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Unfortunately, people like Build Up so the cottage rule prevents making an exotic Build Up. I suggested many times in the past replacing BU with PBU (actually, that suggestion predates PBU) but with rebalanced numbers, just because it preserves the functionality of BU. But that's kinda boring to me now.
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| CAK is the power that singularly sits there mocking me in my tray. Its secondary effects are, without rehashing that debate, pitiful. But if I overload the power with a rainbow of effects designed to stack with other powers, I run the risk of buffing Martial Arts by buffing the power least often taken, which is not something I want to do. |
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| That makes it ground zero for resolving the secondary effect problem: how to grant more secondary effects in a way that won't require the entire set to leverage, but in a way where each power's secondary effects are distinctly valuable *and* all reasonable combinations of powers have a combined secondary effect total that is reasonable. |
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| CAK is the place to try out exotic ideas, because its so obviously underpowered. |
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| This might give a better idea of at least the general direction I'm heading in. |
I'm curious as to the why you feel the need to reinvent the mechanics of MA rather than simply fixing them. The only problem MA's secondary effects have are largely due to magnitude and controllability (low proc rates and a reliance on mag based effects rather than debuffs). Those issues can be addressed without much effort on the devs or player's part unless you specifically feel that complicating the issue is somehow the only correct answer. Sometimes, simple is just the better solution. Don't try to reinvent the set to deal with the fact that the set has problems: just fix what's wrong with the set and be done with it.
You may start looking less like a self-righteous ***** if you actually starting talking rather than simply saying "well, I can't talk to you" or speaking in ridiculously vague generalizations. I'm operating under many of the same restrictions as you, but I'm not telling everyone and everything about how little I'm allowed to tell them. I make my recommendations with what I know in mind without referencing what I'm not allowed to reference. I know exactly the reasons why you're so fed up with Castle right now and why you're exasperated with the state of MA, but it does you no good to talk down to people by saying that they don't know how good they've got it because you can't smack them down. If anything, it makes you look like more of a pompous jackass than I do. And I go out of my way to look like a pompous jackass.
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Then since I am not, in fact, operating under the same restrictions that you are, I'm going to have to end my participation in this discussion.
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Originally Posted by Umbral
You may start looking less like a self-righteous ***** if you actually starting talking rather than simply saying "well, I can't talk to you" or speaking in ridiculously vague generalizations. I'm operating under many of the same restrictions as you, but I'm not telling everyone and everything about how little I'm allowed to tell them. I make my recommendations with what I know in mind without referencing what I'm not allowed to reference. I know exactly the reasons why you're so fed up with Castle right now and why you're exasperated with the state of MA, but it does you no good to talk down to people by saying that they don't know how good they've got it because you can't smack them down. If anything, it makes you look like more of a pompous jackass than I do. And I go out of my way to look like a pompous jackass.
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I said many, not all.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Then since I am not, in fact, operating under the same restrictions that you are, I'm going to have to end my participation in this discussion.
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I find it amusing that so many of your contributions to discussions start with "well, I can't tell you everything", move into vague generalizations, and then end in "I'm leaving this discussion now because you aren't as awesome as me". I find it highly unlikely that you are operating under some explicit dev restriction that prevents you from talking about virtually anything, much less actually providing numbers for anything. You're not the only player that has gotten the ear of the devs before, and you're not the only player that they listen to (something that I'm more and more thankful for the more I end up discussing stuff with you; you really do believe you can do no wrong and that anyone that disagrees with you is arguing with the word of god).
Kinetic Combat: Knockdown Bonus IO
What if every damage attack in Martial Arts had a 20% chance to Knockdown ... as if they were all slotted (out of the box) with a Kinetic Combat proc?
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Not to jump into the flames...but...
Been playing MA since the beginning, though off and on as I've left and come back to the game several times. My first and still main character is lvl 50 MA / SR, and I love the character. I'm particularly enjoying the new punch animations as I always wanted him to be a puncher but didnt like the sfx of the elemental type sets.
I have felt aggravated teaming with blasters as it feels like I spend all my time chasing after mobs only to see them disintegrate before I can really close with them, but I've felt that frustration with other scrapper sets as well and think thats just the downside to playing a melee AT in a range heavy game.
I solo and team, though I favor soloing with this character as teammates usually slow me down. Some AV's, those with high Smashing resistance or excessive healing, are too much for me but most can be brought down if I bear down (SR helps with this); inspiration dependency to make that true varies.
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Having gotten that preamble out of the way, I've always felt that the character was above average on damage, going by feel from teamups with other scrappers. I've always slotted for damage and work Focus Chi into the chain as often as it comes up unless its just not needful situationally but I'm not doing anything crazy or unique in that regard.
I have teamed with a few scrappers that seemed to be out damaging me a bit, notably a couple of fire types and a elec / shield, but it wasn't orders of magnitudes of difference, and there was always some kind of an acceptible trade off -- generally I was more sustainable or was better against a single hard target.
However, CoH team combat has just gotten to the point where it moves so fast that anything that takes too long to animate just isn't feasible. Thus there is a big difference for how sets with a mix of long and short animations play solo vs teamed. Solo it doesnt matter if it takes EC 2.5s to animate - 2.5s is fast in normal people time. Teamed though, theres a big chance that the target of EC will be gone by the end of the 2.5 seconds.
I don't use CAK or Cobra Strike. I tried them in the past and quickly respec'd out of them. I used Thunder Kick for a long time but respec'd it out for Boxing to open up Tough and Weave without shedding a tear.
I have Eagles Claw and love both its flippy kick and haymaker animations, and I use it a lot solo. I have it slotted with Mako's Bite for a little extra oomph as well. However when teaming the long animation makes it impractical to use very often. I'll throw it on tough bosses and AV's because they'll still be alive by the time I finish the wind up, but otherwise if there are other damagers working a target the whiff factor of the target getting dropped while I'm still posturing is just too high.
Similarly, I love Dragon's Tail and I use it constantly solo. However, when teamed I might open with it if theres no tank trying to herd or controller trying to plant, or if we are getting mobbed. Otherwise, I rarely use it teamed as I either rarely have the chance (blasters are wiping all the packed mobs) or as it irritates some other team mates attempts to keep the mobs bunched up.
Focus Chi is awesome and a big booster for my soloing survivability, but again when teamed situationally I usually only have the opportunity to use it on hard targets.
The end result is, I have 5 of the 9 powers of my set and I use all 5 solo, but in teams I only use 2 or 3 reliably - Storm Kick, Crane Kick, and Focus Chi. FC + SK + CK + Boxing is a fast chain. Periodically Practiced Brawler will auto-trigger and slow me down, or FC will come up again and I'll decide to use it and every now and then I'll throw EC or DT just for variety or to finish off something that would take two smaller attacks. Otherwise DT is situational and EC is reserved for something tough.
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For me to take Cobra Strike, it would either need to do respectable damage or be a really reliable mitigation tool. I'm not worried about minions, and I'm not worried about lt's. I'm not even worried about most Bosses. The occasional EB or an AV is what worries me. CS is basically useless against such a foe. In the past I would also have added that the animation would have to change, but I quite like the alternate uppercut animation (so much so that I wish it were associated with CK instead).
For me to take CAK it would have to do something better than immob or slow the target. Even a -Recharge is pretty weak to me; in reality only a few targets are going to be standing long enough to get a second use of any ability potent enough for me to care about. I would take it if the "crippling" aspect of the power was say a 10 second non-stacking damage and / or accuracy debuff vs all target types as the extra mitigation would be welcome.
Thunder Kick is ok as an entry level power; it's a good chain filler early on. However it's not worth it at the higher end for me and swapping it for Boxing or another pool-opener is an easy decision. I don't think it's neeful, but if there were an intent to make it more attractive I would say that a respectable chance for Knockdown would make it a tougher decision to not take it.
Finally... Eagle's Claw. Personally, I would be happy with either a slight damage boost or a slight trimming of its animation to get its DPA into competitiveness. I would also be happy with an outside the box option like a %% chance for an extra tick of Lethal damage. I would be happy with a reliable chance for knockdown (not knockback). I would be happy with a respectable debuff on the target (which would make it more team friendly and more worth throwing in big boss fights). Really, I would be happy with a little something of just about any sort that didnt do something extreme to the power itself like replace its animation with something lame / boring or start launching targets across the room and out of melee range or cost too much END or take forever to cycle.
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I've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of my MA scrapper and while there was a time when he actually was pretty broken between MA and or SR revamps (in both directions), that's all long in the past and he feels pretty fair in PVE under the current paradigm, just slightly behind the power curve but not hopelessly out of sight of it. I've been able to compensate with Invention sets to be competitive, but if I were restricted to just SO's I think the character would feel a little anemic.
So, basically, I'm not looking for ultimate supremacy, just an even footing with the MA powerset peers.
Basically off-topic, but as a general rule, I value intelligence, knowledge, and competence more than I value humility, affability or politeness. That's not to say that those things are exclusive, and ideally someone is smart, humble, friendly, etc. But I'll take a blowhard who knows what they're talking about most of the time vs. 99% of people who have varying personalities but don't know what the hell they're talking about, especially when it comes to math, game design, and game mechanics. I'm not trying to say anyone in this thread is this or that particularly, just that I don't care how condescending, arrogant, or egomaniacal someone is, if at the end of the day (or several months, as it were) they know what they're on about and they produce good results. Even if they act secretive to the point of caricature, I'd rather they kept doing what they're doing even if it offends the delicate sensibilities of other people on an internet message board. lol
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I don't think I'm "more awesome" than any other player. I can discuss certain things up to a certain point, and then no further. Since you will not accept that situation at face value without further explanation, I can't pursue this line of thought beyond this point. Although I will continue to read the thread if any interesting ideas pop up, this will be my last post in it.
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Originally Posted by Umbral
I said many, not all.
I find it amusing that so many of your contributions to discussions start with "well, I can't tell you everything", move into vague generalizations, and then end in "I'm leaving this discussion now because you aren't as awesome as me". I find it highly unlikely that you are operating under some explicit dev restriction that prevents you from talking about virtually anything, much less actually providing numbers for anything. You're not the only player that has gotten the ear of the devs before, and you're not the only player that they listen to (something that I'm more and more thankful for the more I end up discussing stuff with you; you really do believe you can do no wrong and that anyone that disagrees with you is arguing with the word of god). |
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good choice.
| I will argue this til you give up or /ignore me |
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
Unless you can prove that powerset balance mandates a faster animation - a very high standard - I doubt you'll see a dramatically faster animation. And in this game where appearance is as important as performance, I also doubt you'll see anything other than a collaboration between the animators and the power designers when it comes to power animations and cast times.
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In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)