Paragon City is evil?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-05-28 15:16 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Last I knew, cannon wise you tagged them with a teleport tag and teleported them off the Zig.
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Originally Posted by Duncan_Frost
Canon-wise, you actually just "defeated" them, the same way that villains do - so you could be doing anything from arresting them to feeding them their own organs to letting them off with a stern warning
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
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Hmmm, you may be right:|
Originally Posted by DMystic
Longbow are not affiliated with the UN.
and I think a lot of "looking the other way" is happening. |
They were organized by Miss Liberty.
They are trained and supplied by NATO.
They are part of Freedom Corps, whose primary purpose seems to be to support heroes, particularly those of Paragon City.
They are categorized as a 'militia' by Arachnos.
So they could be viewed as anything from an arm of NATO to terrorists in the eyes of international law (presuming that the law is close in the game world to what I think it is in the real world).
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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That is what you are supposed to do per canon. Nothing ensures that that is what you (RP-wise) actually do, by design.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Last I knew, cannon wise you tagged them with a teleport tag and teleported them off the Zig.
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Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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But the discussion is purely Cannon based is it not. Not RP based.
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Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
That is what you are supposed to do per canon. Nothing ensures that that is what you (RP-wise) actually do, by design.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
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Supposedly...|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Last I knew, cannon wise you tagged them with a teleport tag and teleported them off the Zig.
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There are 3 things that can happen in the lore.
I shoot you with tags...somehow... and they malfunction and you die
I shoot you with tags...somehow... and they teleport you to the Zig or a Hospital
I shoot you with tags...somehow... and they malfunction, but your teleporter doesn't and you get teleported to somewhere else.
Supposedly only the upper tiers have good teleporters though so it's best not to rely on them...so apparently I shoot you till your subdued and then somewhere in that if I'm nice and don't mess up I tag you which sends you off through some method to a hospital or the zig... Unfortunately the lower tier villains have to rely on me not being a screw up and nice to be saved >.> and me having and adequate supply of tags. Otherwise they're dead.
Just because you are a villain does not mean you are from the Rogue Isles. That nut job Recluse just steals you away and they have no extradition treaty with the US.
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But when you listen to them they are still starving. The Lost ARE homeless and others that are being Riktified. Whether it's a cult or what not is irrelevant. They are starving and they are homeless now.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Once they team up with the Rikti, they have access to better stuff than a normal homeless person would have
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And personally I get the giggles when I turn a Lost boss back into a human and the other Lost turn on them.
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Steals you away? I'm pretty sure you get a choice or not of getting on that helecopter from tutorial...and everyone seems to say "yes" |
Originally Posted by BlackArachnia
Just because you are a villain does not mean you are from the Rogue Isles. That nut job Recluse just steals you away and they have no extradition treaty with the US.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
And what about characters that don't run the tutorial?
Or how about SoA's that have never stepped foot in Paragon(Mayhem's are not required to be completed for advancement)
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If someone went about killing all the criminals they'd be considered criminals themselves.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
Supposedly...
There are 3 things that can happen in the lore. I shoot you with tags...somehow... and they malfunction and you die I shoot you with tags...somehow... and they teleport you to the Zig or a Hospital I shoot you with tags...somehow... and they malfunction, but your teleporter doesn't and you get teleported to somewhere else. Supposedly only the upper tiers have good teleporters though so it's best not to rely on them...so apparently I shoot you till your subdued and then somewhere in that if I'm nice and don't mess up I tag you which sends you off through some method to a hospital or the zig... Unfortunately the lower tier villains have to rely on me not being a screw up and nice to be saved >.> and me having and adequate supply of tags. Otherwise they're dead. |
I have no problem with people RPing how they want. But really, for the PPD being cannonically one of the most NON-corrupt police forces ever, they wouldn't work with someone who was killing people (from that reality PoV people like to throw around)...and even in mainstream comics, those who go around just killing criminals are hunted by police.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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They're still amazingly enough, known criminals or registered heroes.|
Originally Posted by DMystic
And what about characters that don't run the tutorial?
Or how about SoA's that have never stepped foot in Paragon(Mayhem's are not required to be completed for advancement) |
And because one SoA doesn't go about stepping a foot in Paragon, doesn't mean that Arachnos as a whole doesn't. Safeguard proves that SoA's do.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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you do realize that teleporting people is a new development in CoH world... licensed hereos have been around for 40+ years so yeah... you're wrong.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
If someone went about killing all the criminals they'd be considered criminals themselves.
I have no problem with people RPing how they want. But really, for the PPD being cannonically one of the most NON-corrupt police forces ever, they wouldn't work with someone who was killing people (from that reality PoV people like to throw around)...and even in mainstream comics, those who go around just killing criminals are hunted by police. |
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Not really. What makes you think they allowed licensed heroes to just go around killing?
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Originally Posted by Durakken
you do realize that teleporting people is a new development in CoH world... licensed hereos have been around for 40+ years so yeah... you're wrong.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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And they have guns and alien weapons. Unless they're cannibals, their hunger is their own fault for wasting money on weaponry instead of buying a burger. If they are cannibals, they're criminals who need to be apprehended on sight and with lethal force if necessary. Even if they aren't cannibals, they are still criminals because they kidnap other people for <OMEGA CLEARANCE: CLASSIFIED> and attack heroes on sight.
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Originally Posted by BlackArachnia
They are starving and they are homeless now.
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it is? not calling you out but could you point me to some links? outside of arachnos guys like arbiter sands and the blood widow, who else mentions teleporting? usually when there is text, ti indicates we have arrested the named enemies, and it seems unlikely that the fodder have escape teleporters versus the guys in charge, so i had always assumed it was presented that you arrested all the enemies in the mission(blueside at least). |
Originally Posted by VileTerror
Well, it is effectively canon that pretty much all villain factions, even the simple gangs, have access to medical care of some sort. Whether hi-jacked medi-ports, homemade medi-ports, or Zig medi-ports, virtually all villain groups using living human recruits have some sort of contingency plan to survive death (at least on the blue-side. Not sure how all those Hellions and Skulls survive in the Rogue Isles).
Couple with that the likely possiblity that even after the Rikti invasions, the population of Paragon City is likely in the millions. Let's pull a random, and rather small number: Say about 5 million. Let's argue that 1 million of those are too old, and 2 million are too young to be part of any of the villain groups. Then let's say only 10% of the remaining pool have chosen to live their lives of crime. That's still 200,000 people. That's not including villains who immigrate (such as Malta personnel). |
as for your number of people consider how many enemies you drop in a single mission if you are running with a full group. with a few hous every day, you and your friends could totally clean out 200,000 enemies, in a few weeks and you arent the only hero on the street. Also, on a good night you could drop a good percentage of them, including bosses and lieutenants , I don't see street gangs having the internal structure to redistribute jobs within the gamgs that fast to make up for that kind of attrition, unless gangers in paragon are a lot brighter than gangers in real life are, usually internal fighting happens when gangs lose key organizational figures. often leading to splintering and inter factional warring for old territory.
like i said, it is a game mechanic, hellions and skulls are effectively giant rats and spiders, that is why i avoid looking too deeply at the gameworld, because it has to conform to the gameplay, and that leads to some very odd situations.
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Well, you have to remember also, that you run a mission, let's say 10 minutes. You just effectively spent 4 hours doing it in game time.
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Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
it is? not calling you out but could you point me to some links? outside of arachnos guys like arbiter sands and the blood widow, who else mentions teleporting? usually when there is text, ti indicates we have arrested the named enemies, and it seems unlikely that the fodder have escape teleporters versus the guys in charge, so i had always assumed it was presented that you arrested all the enemies in the mission(blueside at least).
as for your number of people consider how many enemies you drop in a single mission if you are running with a full group. with a few hous every day, you and your friends could totally clean out 200,000 enemies, in a few weeks and you arent the only hero on the street. Also, on a good night you could drop a good percentage of them, including bosses and lieutenants , I don't see street gangs having the internal structure to redistribute jobs within the gamgs that fast to make up for that kind of attrition, unless gangers in paragon are a lot brighter than gangers in real life are, usually internal fighting happens when gangs lose key organizational figures. often leading to splintering and inter factional warring for old territory. like i said, it is a game mechanic, hellions and skulls are effectively giant rats and spiders, that is why i avoid looking too deeply at the gameworld, because it has to conform to the gameplay, and that leads to some very odd situations. |
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The teleportation grid based on Rikti technology is a new development in Co*. Teleportation itself is not.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
you do realize that teleporting people is a new development in CoH world... licensed hereos have been around for 40+ years so yeah... you're wrong.
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One more Villain won´t hurt.|
Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
Yes. They have their own seat on the United Nations...
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Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
They are still convicts in the USA, and the USA can ask for them back.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
I shoot you with tags...somehow... and they malfunction and you die
I shoot you with tags...somehow... and they teleport you to the Zig or a Hospital I shoot you with tags...somehow... and they malfunction, but your teleporter doesn't and you get teleported to somewhere else. |
@Redcap
ANARCHY = A Society that does not need government
114. Ahrouns do not appreciate my particular brand of humour, so I should stop bleaching bulls-eyes in their fur.
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Wait, who says they're spending money to get these weapons. Hell, where would the BUY them from even if they were?
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Originally Posted by Luminara
Unless they're cannibals, their hunger is their own fault for wasting money on weaponry instead of buying a burger.
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The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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still, even a batman level incompetant court system wouldnt be releasing the guys back on the streets as fast as we could clean them up, and after being pounded by an 8 foot tall robot who launched your butt into orbit with a ko blow, or some psycho woman in a leotard who set you on fire, would you really be inclined to go back an risk that again to spraypaint some walls and do petty purse thefts? I suspect some fellows may retire after the first beating based on simple self preservation.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Well, you have to remember also, that you run a mission, let's say 10 minutes. You just effectively spent 4 hours doing it in game time.
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Who says they are? The game's storyline doesn't seem to be set for THIS MANY heroes. The revolving door of the zig seems more along the line of a OOC joke, because the enemies keep spawning which has to happen with a MMO.|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
still, even a batman level incompetant court system wouldnt be releasing the guys back on the streets as fast as we could clean them up, and after being pounded by an 8 foot tall robot who launched your butt into orbit with a ko blow, or some psycho woman in a leotard who set you on fire, would you really be inclined to go back an risk that again to spraypaint some walls and do petty purse thefts? I suspect some fellows may retire after the first beating based on simple self preservation.
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But story wise, alot of these things should be cleaned up and taken care of.
Now let's assume they're not. Let's assume the Zig does have this revolving door. Just further proof that, No, whoever's toon really isn't killing anyone since Frostfire is back, so is that hellion you just killed earlier.
Well good job killer! You can't hero right and you can't kill right. You're 0 for 2 in two categories.
So why wouldn't they come back?
You can't kill them and they get out quickly.OR one can assume there really isn't THAT much crime on the street (or how does the hero have a life when outside the costume, since walking a few feet puts you right back in front of people who want to kill you).
And if you go the route I'm killing everyone, there really isn't a revolving door, I have to ask? You killed Tyrant once, why is he back from the same dimension as always.
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Or at least, get bigger guns.
@Redcap
ANARCHY = A Society that does not need government
114. Ahrouns do not appreciate my particular brand of humour, so I should stop bleaching bulls-eyes in their fur.
As a counter, rian, think of it this way:
"I just got away with robbing a little old lady! Sure, I may have been burnt/punched/necro'd . . . but I got instant medical care, a lawyer who got me off the hook in no time, and I'm back on the street. I'MMA DO IT AGAIN!"
If someone committed the crime in the first place, and had no lasting repercussions they're not about to change their tune because they felt a little* pain.
Just look at real-world criminals and their ilk. Guys who get in to bloody bar room brawls, having multiple bones broken and severe haemorrhaging all for "fun." They get out of the hospital, recover, and go right back to what they always did: broken bones and hemoraging.
Living in the downtown district of a city with a population of over 5 million, this kind of behaviour is extremely common right here in the real world. City of Heroes / City of Villains has just upped the degree which the violence and the recovery occur.
* "little" being subjective.
The way I look at it is this: every player is Warren Ellis.
Well, they wish. What I mean is, its up to each player, when deciding how the lore of their character goes or how they RP them, to decide to what extent they want to stretch canon, and therefore the suspension of disbeleif of their audience.
That audience may be everyone who reads your blog, just the members of your SG/people you hang with in Pocket D, family/friends, or just you.
If you want to say in your own head that you decapitate every foe you defeat and carry their heads in plain sight, that's fine. But if you ask ME to beleive it, its on you to make it beleivable. I could decide that it is just as beleivable that I knock you out with a flip of my finger and send you off to the Zig never to be seen again.
Canon is the responsibility of the Devs, and by playing in their playground you are presumed to be fitting into it unless you convince me otherwise.
By default, I choose not to beleive that Paragon City, RI, USA, condones licensed heroes murdering its innocent (until proven guilty) citizens on the street wholesale. Canon states that fatal levels of violence against presumed criminal is at least not the default.
At the same time, I do choose to beleive that a heroing license sanctions me to set people on fire for the crime of being an identifiable member of the Skulls gang (and therefore a presumed user of both performance enhancing drugs and magic) and engaging in a conversation that sounds like a drug deal in progress (with the understanding that once subdued they should be handed over to the courts for due process). That is also canon.
Per canon, you have some way of signaling to the Teleport Grid that a defeated villain is ready for pick up (also, presumably it is at least bad form to teleport a villain that has not been pre-defeated; it may be impossible). When you are issued your heroing license, you presumably agree to use this method to see to it that villains you have apprehended end up in the Zig. Presumably, nothing actually taps you on the shoulder and makes you do it if you are unwilling.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Longbow are not affiliated with the UN.
and I think a lot of "looking the other way" is happening.