Paragon City is evil?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-05-28 15:16 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
The Rogue Isles is evolved anarchy. People have jobs and there are hospitals, but there is no Bill of Rights. There are no laws, only common sense rules like "Don't cross Arachnos" and "Don't pick fights with people that can beat you up."
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
The Rogue Isles don't hold elections, Recluse assassinated the previous president and took over, and he's been a dictator ever since.
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Of course, the highest law is "don't f$#k with the Arbiters".
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
#1. The Lost are not technically homeless...well not all of them... many were just kidnapped and turned
#2. the more important question is who keeps smashing old style TVs over their heads and who finances that!
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Actually quite a few of them have nice spacious warehouses to live in, so until some enterprising individual comes along and decides to convert them all into fancy lofts for bored rich kids....|
Originally Posted by Durakken
#1. The Lost are not technically homeless...well not all of them... many were just kidnapped and turned
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| #2. the more important question is who keeps smashing old style TVs over their heads and who finances that! |
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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How does "homeless" = "starving"? |
NobleFox confuses me: So are you saying the Rikti magically generated these homeless persons from thin air in order to use previously nonexistent starving homeless persons to infiltrate our society from the bottom up by... uhh I don't even get where your logic is coming from here. How can homeless people tempted by Rikti into becoming Rikti servants not count as homeless people? If the Lost aren't "real" homeless people lured into working for the Rikti, then why does the canon plot insist they are? |
Dec out.
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Yeah, you just keep telling yourself she doesn't know. |
falloutsurvivor wears blinders: GG your post scare me. I hope you never get in a position of power. You're evil without knowing it. |
Dec out.
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Well, since they don't have valid addresses, they can't get mail, so no food stamps, welfare assistance or unemployment checks. They also can't get jobs. At least, not locally. Some weird crap that employers seem to enjoy doing, insisting that potential employees have places of residence which aren't constructed of cardboard. Or on wheels. Not sure about cardboard on wheels...|
Originally Posted by Decorum
How does "homeless" = "starving"?
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Anyway, we know they aren't leaving Paragon City, so they aren't working. We also know that there aren't any small rodents or mammals for them to catch and eat, or if there were, they've caught and eaten them all and now have nothing left to catch and eat. The only birds around are seagulls, and they seem to have either eaten all of those, too, or driven them away with their foul stench (no, seriously, they don't have homes, so they don't have showers, and it never rains, and they seem to have an unnatural fondness for sewers...).
They do panhandle (now), sometimes, but that's usually inside missions... where there are no civilians... just other Lost... who are presumably just as broke, smelly and overwhelmed with craving for squirrel flesh as the ones who are panhandling...
So we're back to the cannibalism possibility. If they aren't hungry, it's not because they're successful beggars (they aren't), or catching squirrels (they aren't), or being supported by the state (they aren't), or hard-working members of the lower class (they aren't), it's probably because they're nom-nom-noming on Soylent Green.
I'd rather think of them as starving, personally. Last thing I want to have to worry about is what might happen if I get jumped by the Lost in a sewer mission and my medi-port beacon goes on the fritz.
I dunno about in the Lumiverse, but around here most of the homeless end up at the Mission, with places to sleep and even when there's not room, there's always food available. You see them on the street because the Mission doesn't allow them to stay during the day.
Dec out.
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There are no homeless people in the Lumiverse. At the moment, there are also no floors, which is making dancing rather awkward.|
Originally Posted by Decorum
I dunno about in the Lumiverse, but around here most of the homeless end up at the Mission, with places to sleep and even when there's not room, there's always food available. You see them on the street because the Mission doesn't allow them to stay during the day.
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In Richmond, VA, however, there are many homeless people. Most of them are more interested in conning strangers out of money than in improving their situation. Most of them are homeless because they don't want to work. Not because they can't, because they choose not to. Since night is the only time I'm comfortable going outside (i have to leave the house for work, food or to pay bills, but i don't do it happily or willingly), I run into them frequently. They seem to gravitate to me for some reason. -_-
Having been homeless (for a few months, shortly after i moved to this city, eleven or twelve years ago), I understand the difficulties they face. But I also understand that all but the most severely mentally or physically ill can change that situation, just as I did. It's not easy, but it's possible. Most, though, don't bother. And I doubt they spend much time at whatever charitable organizations exist in this city, either.
Well, to be fair, we don't have a huge homeless problem here. I'm sure that has much to do with our weather. People want to leave Michigan winters and head to warmer climes...like Richmond VA. 
Dec out.
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Ironically, this is to such a degree that, as a villain, you can beat up Lord Recluse, but not an Arbiter.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Of course, the highest law is "don't f$#k with the Arbiters".
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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The way I understand it, there are two levels to the Rogue Isles government:|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
There are no elections, but there are laws and political officials. Each island has a governor and a marshal (both appointed by Recluse). The governors deal with domestic stuff and the marshals deal with security.
Of course, the highest law is "don't f$#k with the Arbiters". |
1. To normal people it is a classic authoritarian one party state, with a cult-of-personality ruler, militarized police, no real elections and so on.
2. For people with powers it is different. They are allowed to do anything they are powerful enough to get away with so long as they:
a) don't touch an arbiter, as you said
b) don't interfere with point 1 above - which rules out most "hero stuff"
And of course, "do what you want" means that others can do what they want to you - unless you are powerful enough to stop them.
I do not suffer from altitis, I enjoy every character of it.
There are governors and marshals, but are there actual laws on the books and a legal system (maybe this should be directed to Ask a Dev/Canon Fodder...or Venture, who may know even more, hee hee) per se?
Or is it more of a Medieval system where there are go-to people to whom you can complain ("If you have been assaulted by a super powered being, hang up and dial 911..."), but its' totally their call whether they deal with it themselves or kick it upstairs, with no official list of precedents being kept and the like?
If you want to bulldoze an orphanage and put in a toxic waste factory, do you just bribe the Governor and send out the Constructicons without so much as sending along lollipops and bleacher seats for the kids?
As Arachnos Commander pointed out to me in game, the streets of the Rogue Islands are fairly safe compared to Paragon City...you don't see purse snatchers on every corner. But that doesn't mean there is an actual law against purse snatching.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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Only evil people would think I was evil |
Originally Posted by Decorum
Yeah, you just keep telling yourself she doesn't know.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
So you do know?
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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I know I'm not evil - I'm not even prepared to play vigilante stuff in a video game |
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
So you do know?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I think they probably just have directives/orders from above, which would work like laws, but they wouldn't actually be written down.|
Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
There are governors and marshals, but are there actual laws on the books and a legal system (maybe this should be directed to Ask a Dev/Canon Fodder...or Venture, who may know even more, hee hee) per se?
Or is it more of a Medieval system where there are go-to people to whom you can complain ("If you have been assaulted by a super powered being, hang up and dial 911..."), but its' totally their call whether they deal with it themselves or kick it upstairs, with no official list of precedents being kept and the like? If you want to bulldoze an orphanage and put in a toxic waste factory, do you just bribe the Governor and send out the Constructicons without so much as sending along lollipops and bleacher seats for the kids? As Arachnos Commander pointed out to me in game, the streets of the Rogue Islands are fairly safe compared to Paragon City...you don't see purse snatchers on every corner. But that doesn't mean there is an actual law against purse snatching. |
Like if he controls most of the media there, he can make sure that any new directives are spread to everyone, and his minions would be told to enforce the new rules.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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When the only differences between you and Tyrant are gender and willingness to kill, non-evil people start to question it, too.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Only evil people would think I was evil
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The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
Golden Girl is most definitely NOT evil.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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Well, there are more differences than just those two - although those two are pretty big differences |
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
When the only differences between you and Tyrant are gender and willingness to kill, non-evil people start to question it, too.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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If there are, I've never seen evidence of them. Similarities yes, but no differences.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Well, there are more differences than just those two - although those two are pretty big differences
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The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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Not wanting to rule the world or multiple worlds is also quite a big difference |
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
If there are, I've never seen evidence of them. Similarities yes, but no differences.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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(Why do I do this to myself)|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Not wanting to rule the world or multiple worlds is also quite a big difference
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I don't think Tyrant "wants" to rule the world either. He just feels like he "has" to. He backed off once and things got really bad. Now he'll never let go of control again. He can't, he's convinced the consequences would be worse than anything he could do.
Paragon Unleashed, Unleash Yourself!
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So he's going to invade Primal Earth just in case? |
Originally Posted by Blood Spectre
(Why do I do this to myself)
I don't think Tyrant "wants" to rule the world either. He just feels like he "has" to. He backed off once and things got really bad. Now he'll never let go of control again. He can't, he's convinced the consequences would be worse than anything he could do. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Well, didn't Ms Liberty and crew invade Praetoria and kidnap Dominatrix in the comic books? Let me rephrase that in human terms. Extra dimensional invaders crossed into his world and stole his grand daughter.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
So he's going to invade Primal Earth just in case?
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If they can do that, what else might they do? Who might get hurt because of their meddling? He can't let it go unanswered. It's too risky. The last time he took that chance, people died. This time it could be someone close to him. He HAS to act.
Paragon Unleashed, Unleash Yourself!
Skulls, Hellions, Trolls, Outcast, none of them are shown to be willing to give anything away to another enemy group, so the Lost aren't getting free weapons from any of them.
High-level Lost come out of Terra Volta and go rampaging through the Hollows when nobody is looking, beating up greys and taking their guns.
Lower-level Lost wander through Kings Row and Skyway when nobody is looking, picking up all the guns the Skulls and Trolls dropped when some hero beat them up.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World