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I didn't get to see many villain matches as I was primarily playing heroes at that point. But from what I hear, yes, both of those players were also premier stalkers.
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Originally Posted by slickadelaphante
You forgot to mention Donkey Punch and Divine Majestic
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@Ethical Inquiry
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1. modoom was bad.|
Originally Posted by Pareto
I'm pretty sure those stalkers were top notch, unlike the stalkers of this issue. People like Banzai and Zero and Vert and Modoom could actually get AS's in those matches, stalkers today just trow sharks.
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2. there's stalkers that would definitely outplay the f out of modoom that still play.
3. see #1.
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people in this game tend to live off legendary individuals all to often... while i'm not hoping to take credit from anyone you've mentioned (except modoom), there's still people i'd put on par with the lower tier of that group that still play. liberty, kro and oz come to mind. bleak is still around-ish, right? trance definitely counts.|
Originally Posted by Pareto
I didn't get to see many villain matches as I was primarily playing heroes at that point. But from what I hear, yes, both of those players were also premier stalkers.
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in all seriousness, i got away with more ridiculous planted spikes against many of the people you listed and trance and bleak didn't let me do that even once this last season...
I'm sure all of us can name plenty of good stalkers, but the rules regarding stalkers had nothing to do with stalkers being good/bad, or even ASing at all for that matter.
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Duh. But the problem is the 60% refusing to play, not the idea itself. Like I said from the beginning, this community is not capable of doing something like it. Not sure what we're arguing about. I said it's a good idea but is not realistic. You say it's a bad idea because it's not realistic. I think we can stop arguing now.
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Originally Posted by Silit
An idea that would result in 60% of the already tiny PvP community refusing to play sounds pretty terrible to me.
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yeah, it has everything to do with damage control post-retardo-style implementations of a blind-line-up rule.
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Originally Posted by Silit
I'm sure all of us can name plenty of good stalkers, but the rules regarding stalkers had nothing to do with stalkers being good/bad, or even ASing at all for that matter.
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I love how this thread made a complete turn round in topic of conversation.
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Originally Posted by iLostCountBarrier
Way wrong.
We had teams with 3 forts and 2 mms that actually knew how use their pets in the villain ladder. Stalkers were still used and definitely got the job done. |
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Originally Posted by slickadelaphante
I love how this thread made a complete turn round in topic of conversation.
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http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6685529/3-hot-and-vex-3
Back on point regarding new people getting rolled and running off the ladder compensates for that. You move up it by challenging teams above you and winning . People get rolled in practicesn etc and learn to get better. When it was Jal Fol and Velocity they were practicing with each other . Rolling a lower a lower ranked team did nothing for u unless your feel good tank was empty. Lower team would ask to practice to learn to get better. You got better challenged the team above you..win sometime lose some time and try again.
Personally, I'm still all about blind line-ups. Things just progress more smoothly.
I sort of assumed, regardless of what we chose for how we did line-ups, we'd still have a limit on Stalkers simply because Sharks are so ridiculous. This hasn't changed, so that's why.
Supermax is still Super-retarded.
So, we should probably get some people together to hammer out a few details concerning what's carried over from the League, and what's sticking from the Ladder. Obviously, the hybrid would be ideal, at least in my opinion, but we should at least get a better idea of how everyone feels.
How do we go about that? League team Caps? People who are likely to lead teams in the Ladder? Something else entirely? So I'm gonna go drink some vegetable oil while someone finds the answers to these questions.
Try to keep the cap a little high. A lot of my team will be casual players, with a small more hardcore main group.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
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I disagree. During the test ladder there was ALWAYS small server events going on simutaneously. Tvplp or whatever it was called also ran simutaneously. There should be no conflict being matches are scheduled rather than having to be weekly. Only an idiot would schedule a match for both at the same time if they know they have players participating in both.|
Originally Posted by vindizzLe
Running a small league on live alongside a test ladder is a bad idea. The intention isn't to split the focus, but rather to draw a majority to one area in order to strengthen it. As opposed to running a seperate league/ladder on live, you could opt instead to set aside a day every week where we run kickballs starting a certain time until there aren't enough players to continue on.
I understand that people try (and normally succeed) to get KBs going nightly, but back in the day, Friday night kickballs on test always garnered interest from not only the high end competitive players, but newer players as well. Posting on the boards about it regularly and getting a larger portion of players to try and make it on a set night isn't a bad idea, and achieves a similar goal that a separate league on live does. On the note of high end teams allowing players to warm the bench more often, I can speak more from experience here than you can considering you're terrible and don't have much test league experience, but the best of 3 match option allows teams to rotate in non-starters so that they have a chance to prove themselves as well. This goes back to the issue of players practicing and proving that they deserve to start for a team. If we're running another league on live to accommodate "bench-warmers", that may eventually cause a division between players trying to run a test league successfully, and those who would rather stay on live simply because they don't have to try in order to start for their teams. |
As far as it causing a division between players trying to run a test league successfully and those that would prefer to stay on live....ummm shouldn't pvp be promoted for everyone, not just the highend test leaguers? I realize that may be the only pvp that you personally care about but the world doesn't revolve around you and there are others that are not of your calibur that want organized pvp as well.
The whole bench warmers get cycled in to best 2 out of 3 rounds is bull and you know it. Every single test team I was on rarely even let the benchwarmers play practice matches against other teams more less do an official match against other teams. Being all the teams I was on you probably would label as ****** I am sure the top notch team (s) you were on surely didn't let crappy people start just to be nice. On the occassion that a subpar player was allowed in an official it was ONE match and ONLY if it was against a team they were confidant they could beat even with carrying someone subpar. That is the way it should be. I agree 100% people should have to take their licks and earn their way up. However there still needs to be an avenue for regular, crappy, noobs players to have organized pvp, regardless.
I can think of atleast 30 players from the current league that want to continue organized pvp that will never get on any of the teams so far that are showing interest. There are probably twice that many that expressed interest in joining the league that couldn't mid season that might join the next great event planned if they could get a team. They also would never be picked for any of the teams showing interest in a ladder. Sorry but to me those people deserve organized pvp just as much as the ladder people do.
If they are that interested they can make their own teams.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
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Wow, so much hate for someone that's never said anything to you. I'd probably care if I had any idea who you are.
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Originally Posted by Vexington
Supermax is still Super-retarded.
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Kat, what I think you're missing is the point/fact that anyone could join *this* Ladder and still compete in fun, competitive matches. Even if one or two teams initially are doing better than the others, there will be other teams of relative skill for the other lower-end teams to practice against.
Running two League/Ladders seems like it'd split the PvP community, rather than focus it into something more broad. Kickballs, and random Tourneys could still be regularly held on Test or Live servers with no conflict, or at least little.
As far as there never being conflicting practice/match times, I think it could easily be more complicated than you seemed to let on. It'd be easy if the Leader of one team was making sure a single other player or players on ONE other team currently involved in a separate Ladder didn't have an issue, but if people are more spread out, it'd be a mess to find out who's doing what, when, etc.
I'm in favor of the more random events with regularly scheduled kickballs. Again, any team can join the potential Ladder, so there's no need. If the only fear is of losing, PvP isn't for you, because even in a mini-Ladder, there are teams that will be dominant, and one team will be the worst. No getting around it.
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So a person brand new to pvp or still fairly new to pvp should make their own organized test team? Sounds like a recipe for pvp IO farming to me. Thats like telling a chihuahua if they want some bootie they should climb up on a step ladder and attempt to screw the rotweiller.
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Originally Posted by ConFlict
If they are that interested they can make their own teams.
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This is why the PVPEC was created,Kat. It's the PVPEC's job to create live events for all of the players with an interest in pvp. It isn't the responsibility of the ladder people to hold hands and indoctrine players. It is their(ladder guys//gals) job to provide a standard of example for great team play.It's the pvpec's job to provide events for novices and those that don't make the cut on a ladder team.At the same time the Pvpec should do blatant advertising about when ladder matches and practices will occur.That allows players with a taste to go observe and begin to understand what's needed to be on a ladder team.|
Originally Posted by CriticalKat
I disagree. During the test ladder there was ALWAYS small server events going on simutaneously. Tvplp or whatever it was called also ran simutaneously. There should be no conflict being matches are scheduled rather than having to be weekly. Only an idiot would schedule a match for both at the same time if they know they have players participating in both.
As far as it causing a division between players trying to run a test league successfully and those that would prefer to stay on live....ummm shouldn't pvp be promoted for everyone, not just the highend test leaguers? I realize that may be the only pvp that you personally care about but the world doesn't revolve around you and there are others that are not of your calibur that want organized pvp as well. The whole bench warmers get cycled in to best 2 out of 3 rounds is bull and you know it. Every single test team I was on rarely even let the benchwarmers play practice matches against other teams more less do an official match against other teams. Being all the teams I was on you probably would label as ****** I am sure the top notch team (s) you were on surely didn't let crappy people start just to be nice. On the occassion that a subpar player was allowed in an official it was ONE match and ONLY if it was against a team they were confidant they could beat even with carrying someone subpar. That is the way it should be. I agree 100% people should have to take their licks and earn their way up. However there still needs to be an avenue for regular, crappy, noobs players to have organized pvp, regardless. I can think of atleast 30 players from the current league that want to continue organized pvp that will never get on any of the teams so far that are showing interest. There are probably twice that many that expressed interest in joining the league that couldn't mid season that might join the next great event planned if they could get a team. They also would never be picked for any of the teams showing interest in a ladder. Sorry but to me those people deserve organized pvp just as much as the ladder people do. |
I don't think the answer here for the ladder stuff is an open draft or splitting teams. The answer is letting the Ladder Captains run as they see fit ( with the teams they choose). Then the PVPEC steps up with more server events for people wanting to get their feet wet. In addition, it's alot easier to do events on ONE server. Barrage Freedom with events from lvl 4's to even perhaps a 1 v1 melee ladder. Add a zone war. There are many things that can be done to entice new pvp or semi interesteds without messing up the ladder.
I will happily volunteer time to doing server things for new pvp players on Freedom and know a few others willing to do the same.Beat ya to that whole" If you don't like it than volunteer !!" response.
In short, the Pvpec shouldn't be involved in the ladder at all. Theres plenty more stuff PVPEC could be doing to facilitate pvp.Guys and gals on the ladder are already participating in pvp as established groups.
disclaimer:^^ that's imho.
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You don't have to say anything *TO* me to clearly demonstrate your stupidity. You're not helping any cause, so I'm not sure why you're still lurking. Your ideas are bad and flawed. Go away.
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Originally Posted by Supermax
Wow, so much hate for someone that's never said anything to you. I'd probably care if I had any idea who you are.
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UJL did it.|
Originally Posted by CriticalKat
So a person brand new to pvp or still fairly new to pvp should make their own organized test team? Sounds like a recipe for pvp IO farming to me. Thats like telling a chihuahua if they want some bootie they should climb up on a step ladder and attempt to screw the rotweiller.
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Dark Revolution did it.
The last incarnation of Freaks/Bloodline did it.
So did LoLVirtue.
It's obviously true that they can start their own from scratch, but if we also get a sign-up thread for people interested in being on Ladder teams, people could be looked at more closely to further facilitate. I don't see any huge problems, honestly. Just a little legwork in a few areas.
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Some of what you said I agree with. Let me pose a question for you then. Anyone can join this ladder we are speaking about true enough. A new pvp'r or crappy pvp'r should not be running a team (proof = me just running CIGAL). Ok so look at your POWT, the entire team throughout the season. Now honestly ask yourself how many of them you would let join your ladder team. Maybe you are a nice guy and would let them all (which I doubt). How much play time would they get?|
Originally Posted by Vexington
Kat, what I think you're missing is the point/fact that anyone could join *this* Ladder and still compete in fun, competitive matches. Even if one or two teams initially are doing better than the others, there will be other teams of relative skill for the other lower-end teams to practice against.
Running two League/Ladders seems like it'd split the PvP community, rather than focus it into something more broad. Kickballs, and random Tourneys could still be regularly held on Test or Live servers with no conflict, or at least little. As far as there never being conflicting practice/match times, I think it could easily be more complicated than you seemed to let on. It'd be easy if the Leader of one team was making sure a single other player or players on ONE other team currently involved in a separate Ladder didn't have an issue, but if people are more spread out, it'd be a mess to find out who's doing what, when, etc. I'm in favor of the more random events with regularly scheduled kickballs. Again, any team can join the potential Ladder, so there's no need. If the only fear is of losing, PvP isn't for you, because even in a mini-Ladder, there are teams that will be dominant, and one team will be the worst. No getting around it. |
The whole point of the retarded rules we had in the League was to get new people introduced in to pvp to build the community up. Each team may have a couple of those people that got good enough in the past 3 months to make it on a test team. That still leaves a huge percent of people that didn't. We (PVPEC and people that took their time out to try to teach new people) totally wasted our time and effort if we don't continue to not only provide organized pvp for those people but also for other new people coming in to the game or suddenly showing some interest in pvp.
If I wanted to play with the *people* on my entire team, they would all play matches consistently. Obviously some more than others, but that's the way it goes. Going on skill alone, yeah, they'd all get in the matches, Kat.
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I know that is why the PVPEC was created. Being a leader of the PVPEC is why I am arguing the fact that we need something server side besides regular random events. Something more organized. Some of the ladder people are disagreeing and saying its a conflict.....|
Originally Posted by DitzyBlonde
This is why the PVPEC was created,Kat. It's the PVPEC's job to create live events for all of the players with an interest in pvp. It isn't the responsibility of the ladder people to hold hands and indoctrine players. It is their(ladder guys//gals) job to provide a standard of example for great team play.It's the pvpec's job to provide events for novices and those that don't make the cut on a ladder team.At the same time the Pvpec should do blatant advertising about when ladder matches and practices will occur.That allows players with a taste to go observe and begin to understand what's needed to be on a ladder team.
I don't think the answer here for the ladder stuff is an open draft or splitting teams. The answer is letting the Ladder Captains run as they see fit ( with the teams they choose). Then the PVPEC steps up with more server events for people wanting to get their feet wet. In addition, it's alot easier to do events on ONE server. Barrage Freedom with events from lvl 4's to even perhaps a 1 v1 melee ladder. Add a zone war. There are many things that can be done to entice new pvp or semi interesteds without messing up the ladder. I will happily volunteer time to doing server things for new pvp players on Freedom and know a few others willing to do the same.Beat ya to that whole" If you don't like it than volunteer !!" response. In short, the Pvpec shouldn't be involved in the ladder at all. Theres plenty more stuff PVPEC could be doing to facilitate pvp.Guys and gals on the ladder are already participating in pvp as established groups. disclaimer:^^ that's imho. |
The PVPEC will not be involved in the ladder at all, besides some reps that might join or run teams. The ladder already knows how to run itself, there is not need for the PVPEC to do any work there.
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Kk. Glad to hear that, Elf Stalker already expressed an interest and is looking for a team. :-)
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Originally Posted by Vexington
If I wanted to play with the *people* on my entire team, they would all play matches consistently. Obviously some more than others, but that's the way it goes. Going on skill alone, yeah, they'd all get in the matches, Kat.
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You forgot to mention Donkey Punch and Divine Majestic