Live Patch Notes - 5/12/10

The_Coming_Storm · 05-12-2010 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emberly

This isn't a good change.

Perhaps it is if Hami is downable by people with competent ST attack chains.

GadgetDon · 05-12-2010 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castle

I fixed the bug which made their power not shut off when held. However, I ALSO fixed the bug which made them perma-hold themselves, so the LGTF will be harder than you remember. Too hard? Perhaps -- the Green Mitos have 50 points of hold protection (as opposed to -50...) now.

EDIT: The design intent for Green Mitos is you essentially HAVE to hold them or they are nigh unkillable.

In a Hami raid, with 50 people in the fight, that's a reasonable position.

In an LGTF with 8 random people, meaning there's at least a 50/50 chance you won't have any better hold than maybe a scrapper with petrifying gaze, not reasonable for any hold at all, much less a 50 magnitude hold.

Why? By the time you get to that mission, with a normal team not doing a speed run, you're an hour, maybe more spent on the TF. To discover that you just hit a wall because you don't have the team makeup expected is never fun, to discover that you hit that wall that late in the TF is maddening.

The LGTF is one of the really FUN TFs. Great story, great dialog, and until this change, loose enough that 8 people with their favorite characters can probably take it on regardless of AT mix.

It may be WAI, but it's badly, badly, badly broken.

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Radmind · 05-12-2010 06:44 PM

I'd complain about the changes.. but I can't even log in since for some reason the updater is trying to change my cityofheroes.exe to cityofheroes.old... it has an error and doesn't le t me go any farther...

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The_Coming_Storm · 05-12-2010 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GadgetDon

In a Hami raid, with 50 people in the fight, that's a reasonable position.

In an LGTF with 8 random people, meaning there's at least a 50/50 chance you won't have any better hold than maybe a scrapper with petrifying gaze, not reasonable for any hold at all, much less a 50 magnitude hold.

Why? By the time you get to that mission, with a normal team not doing a speed run, you're an hour, maybe more spent on the TF. To discover that you just hit a wall because you don't have the team makeup expected is never fun, to discover that you hit that wall that late in the TF is maddening.

The LGTF is one of the really FUN TFs. Great story, great dialog, and until this change, loose enough that 8 people with their favorite characters can probably take it on regardless of AT mix.

It may be WAI, but it's badly, badly, badly broken.

Pop reds, pop buffs, use a decent ST attack chain on Hami. Tell me that cannot work.

Bocus_King · 05-12-2010 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm

Pop reds, pop buffs, use a decent ST attack chain on Hami. Tell me that cannot work.

you sound like a broken record

The_Coming_Storm · 05-12-2010 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bocus_King

you sound like a broken record

So does everyone else. At least I have hope and have not given in to despair.

Leandro · 05-12-2010 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm

Pop reds, pop buffs, use a decent ST attack chain on Hami. Tell me that cannot work.

As reported, the mission won't end just by defeating Hami. So, that cannot work.

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TrueMetal · 05-12-2010 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm

Perhaps it is if Hami is downable by people with competent ST attack chains.

Dude, just cut the crap. You're annoying.

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Tempus Fugitive · 05-12-2010 06:49 PM

Geez guys. Ok the new fix is overboard. We get that. Even if Castle does want to fix it, you're not giving him a chance to reply. Give him a break. Is he perfect? No. Are any of us perfect?.... I didn't think so. Give him time. Issue 17 caused issues and they are quickly patching to fix them. I applaud the devs for this. I say good job devs and if the LGTF is undoable for the moment, try something else in the game. There are TONS of TF's and other things to do and see in this huge game we all still love.

Just my two cents worth.

Demonic_Gerbil · 05-12-2010 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm

Pop reds, pop buffs, use a decent ST attack chain on Hami. Tell me that cannot work.

Okay.

That cannot work.

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The_Coming_Storm · 05-12-2010 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueMetal

Dude, just cut the crap. You're annoying.

I am the shining light in the darkness!

Shadow Ravenwolf · 05-12-2010 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm

I am the shining light in the darkness!

You're more like the Emergency Broadcast Weekly Test, right in the middle of the best part of a TV Show.

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fallenz · 05-12-2010 06:57 PM

What is up with this patch? I got more lag than I ever had on test with Ultra Mode. I was getting with the same settings over a 30fps during a MS Raid in RWZ now tonight I'm down to 15fps if I was lucky during most of the raid. Huh???

fallenz · 05-12-2010 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castle

I fixed the bug which made their power not shut off when held. However, I ALSO fixed the bug which made them perma-hold themselves, so the LGTF will be harder than you remember. Too hard? Perhaps -- the Green Mitos have 50 points of hold protection (as opposed to -50...) now.

EDIT: The design intent for Green Mitos is you essentially HAVE to hold them or they are nigh unkillable.

Thanks Castle. I guess I want mark off LGTF as a taskforce to run now because I play mostly melee. yeahh maybe going back to EQ is a good idea now....

Castle · 05-12-2010 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leandro

Sorry Castle, you went WAY over with this change. You need to lower their protection if you want any teams other than 8 controllers/dominators to be able to do this.

Perhaps. Probably, in fact. I made it match the original design. If needed (and judging by reactions, it probably is) I'll drop the protection some in a future update. It will never be as easy as it was when the green mito's perma-held themselves though.

SaintNicster · 05-12-2010 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castle

I fixed the bug which made their power not shut off when held. However, I ALSO fixed the bug which made them perma-hold themselves, so the LGTF will be harder than you remember. Too hard? Perhaps -- the Green Mitos have 50 points of hold protection (as opposed to -50...) now.

EDIT: The design intent for Green Mitos is you essentially HAVE to hold them or they are nigh unkillable.

Are they supposed to be killable?

50 points reminds me of the PToD, and I can't remember the last time that I was in a group that was able to hold an AV while the PToD were active. Those at least have the advantage of going down every few minutes.

Might it be possible to tone this down a bit? Maybe try giving them the standard AV purple triangles (complete with crash/cool down)?

Edit: and he replies as I do. fun times

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The_Coming_Storm · 05-12-2010 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castle

Perhaps. Probably, in fact. I made it match the original design. If needed (and judging by reactions, it probably is) I'll drop the protection some in a future update. It will never be as easy as it was when the green mito's perma-held themselves though.

Are the mitos supposed to die when the nucleus dies as in the raid version?

Castle · 05-12-2010 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm

Are the mitos supposed to die when the nucleus dies as in the raid version?

Not a clue. I'd have to ask the mission writer. I assume it works like a standard encounter, rather than like the Hamidon Zone Event, though.

PC_guy · 05-12-2010 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castle

Perhaps. Probably, in fact. I made it match the original design. If needed (and judging by reactions, it probably is) I'll drop the protection some in a future update. It will never be as easy as it was when the green mito's perma-held themselves though.

why was it fixed in the first place? even if they did have negative holds, it wasn't tf breaking or exploitable.

Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.

Lonelyshade · 05-12-2010 07:14 PM

>.< ok lag has increased , not only are the costumes not fixed m contact screen lag not fixed, instead it even increased . now costume menu bring up takes even longer .
It seems now during respec pressing backwards on powers a couple steps crashes my game .
Putting bloom on high messes up the whole bitmaps on the screen .
Turning it into a city of tokens . but doesn´t crashes the comp .

Where is the SOA bane maces customisation colors . not returned in game yet .
Ok is there anyway to get a no ultra mode patch ?
Cause this lag and costume lag is freaking me out .

And i can press go ultra once all costume pieces and graphic bugs are solved .

GadgetDon · 05-12-2010 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castle

Perhaps. Probably, in fact. I made it match the original design. If needed (and judging by reactions, it probably is) I'll drop the protection some in a future update. It will never be as easy as it was when the green mito's perma-held themselves though.

So the LGTF was never as hard as it was originally designed to be.

That's not the question to ask. The question to ask is, was the difficulty of the LGTF prior to this patch too easy? (And more importantly, was this mission of the LGTF where the difficulty is an issue?) In my view, no. I'll grant that the devs may have a different view, but look at it in the ecosystem of other TFs, and what people like about it.

And the other question to ask: Is it "fun" for 8 people who want to run the TF, seeing none of them are on controllers or dominators, to have to ask each other "OK, who has someone they can switch to? Nobody? OK, someone has to sit out and we need to find one who wants to run the LGTF."

Or more generically, what is the "fun" part of the challenge that says "your ability to continue the TF that you've just spent an hour+ on depends on the ability to generate a sufficient magnitude hold, with no workarounds or alternative strategies possible"

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Rajani Isa · 05-12-2010 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castle

Perhaps. Probably, in fact. I made it match the original design. If needed (and judging by reactions, it probably is) I'll drop the protection some in a future update. It will never be as easy as it was when the green mito's perma-held themselves though.

So you are saying the design intent of the mission with the Weakened Hamidon is to either take forever OR demand 5pts of hold from each task force member on a perma basis?

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Verene · 05-12-2010 07:29 PM

How about just keeping the hold resistance and dropping the hold protect? Could even up the hold resistance and it'd still be doable but more difficult. 50 protect is insane assuming we're not running 3 or 4 permadom mind/ doms per team.

Also, the merits were assigned to lgtf based on its 'unintended' form. Are we going to get more merits for it after the forthcoming fix?

UberGuy · 05-12-2010 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verene

Also, the merits were assigned to lgtf based on its 'unintended' form. Are we going to get more merits for it after the forthcoming fix?

A direct, proactive change on this basis seems unlikely. What it sounds like they do is monitor the median completion time and make adjustments. If people start taking longer on median, the reward will go up accordingly.

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Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
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Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

Bocus_King · 05-12-2010 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberGuy

A direct, proactive change on this basis seems unlikely. What it sounds like they do is monitor the median completion time and make adjustments. If people start taking longer on median, the reward will go up accordingly.

To bad median completion times don't include failed attempts.