Compare the numbers to scrapper not tanks. Because thats who they have the same numbers as. The caps are the same as tanks. But you will need external buffs to reach those levels in some cases.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
Quote:
I bolded the parts where you are going wrong.|
Originally Posted by Donna_
Ok so I have had a few tanks in my time and I am now turning my attention to making a brute... however i am having issues on mids making one as survivable as I am used to.
So far nothing seems to be as good as it's Tanker counter-part.... (I know this is the way that it's meant to be.) Any how, I had a bash as an SR build... can anyone better this, advise me, even suggest another set or pair of sets.... Thanks in advance for your help |
Brutes aren't redside tanks. They're Brutes. Their job isn't to emulate tanks. They're not designed to attain tank levels of mitigation without outside support (although IO sets can let you do this anyway). On the flip side, Brutes belt out a lot more damage than tanks, once you build up a full head of steam, and benefit a lot more from outside damage buffs than tanks.
Brutes are their own AT, just like Dominators are not redside controllers and Corruptors are not redside defenders. Trying to play the redside ATs as if they were just villainous versions or blueside ATs is a recipe for frustration, disappointment and a generally bad time, for both you and everyone you team with.
Quote:
That SR build has 46% to 51% Defense to all positions, all above defense caps, and a half a second interrupt on a 37.6% self-heal that recharges in under 10 seconds. You pretty much completely ignore Defense Debuffs, as well.| Any how, I had a bash as an SR build... can anyone better this, advise me, even suggest another set or pair of sets.... |
You are survivable on a level that even many tanks would envy. I've got a Mace/SR Brute and a Claws/SR Brute, both with defenses for positions ranging from 44% to 46%, with a similar heal, and I'm basically unkillable outside of multiple repeat knocks from the streak breaker, or if I'm just really not paying attention.
My only immediate suggestions, off the top of my head, would be to dump Taunt (building Fury as a SS brute is not hard at all) to pick up Gloom. Gloom for Brutes is awesome. If that doesn't fit your concept, just leave it with the basic slot and a taunt enhancement (are you going for PVP here? That's the only reason to put accuracy in it, but lolpvp), and move the other slots around.
Adding another slot to Stamina and putting the +end proc in it will help some, but your Endurance is still going to be a bit on the rough side at 2.96/s recovery.
You don't need the +3% psi defense from your Scirroco set in Footstomp. Given your end issues you might want to dump the damage proc for an End Reduction (would drop it by 3 points, which every 10 seconds adds up in prolonged combat) unless you intend to just chow on blues.
The other slot could go into Aid Self for a third piece of Numina's and a few extra HP.
Also, that extra Defense enhancement in Combat Jumping isn't providing you any substantial protection. It's 1.88% without and 2.35 with. Move that slot to Health for a third Numi and that's another HP bump.
Alternately, use one of the slots for Health and put another Miracle in it for the extra Endurance/sec, and swap out the Doctored Wounds in Aid Self for Miracle IOs. It's not a ton of Endurance, but every little bit helps.
Regardless, you want the +end proc in Stamina.
Quote:
exactly.
|
Originally Posted by emberly
i bolded the parts where you are going wrong.
Brutes aren't redside tanks. They're brutes. Their job isn't to emulate tanks. They're not designed to attain tank levels of mitigation without outside support (although io sets can let you do this anyway). On the flip side, brutes belt out a lot more damage than tanks, once you build up a full head of steam, and benefit a lot more from outside damage buffs than tanks. Brutes are their own at, just like dominators are not redside controllers and corruptors are not redside defenders. Trying to play the redside ats as if they were just villainous versions or blueside ats is a recipe for frustration, disappointment and a generally bad time, for both you and everyone you team with. |
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
As it has already been stated, brutes are not tankers. MMs are not tankers. Tankers are tankers. If you are looking for a redside tanker- wait until Going Rogue. Brutes are brutes. I personally never have problems making Brutes survivable. The caps are the same as tankers, and assuming you are using IOs, you can do some pretty sick things.
To be brutally honest, I think sometimes people place far too much importance on survivability and not enough on damage dealing. Sure, your granite armor tank has some of the highest damage mitigation in the game, but there is reason tankers aren't known for their ability to deal damage. Brutes, on the other hand, can do both.
Don't get me wrong, I hope that GR will bring new challenges that will renew a need for supreme survivability, but in the current game, I think that tankers have levels of survivability that reach into the overkill zone.
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
Compare a Tankers damage to a Brute, see how that works out.
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
Quote:
Just a guess, but I think what Donna meant by this was she understands that brutes are NOT supposed to be as good as their tanker counterparts, counterpart meaning the armor sets (Brute Invuln vs. Tank Invuln, not Brute vs. Tank or Brute=Tank).|
Originally Posted by Donna_
So far nothing seems to be as good as it's Tanker counter-part....
(I know this is the way that it's meant to be.) |
At least, that's the sense I got when I read the OP. I could of course be wrong, but that's how I read it.
~WP
I thought that i would have a little play with your build and this is what i came up with, it offers you a bit more recovery and regen than what you posted as well as well over the cap for melee ranged & aoe.I also subbed super jump for gloom but you could swap out taunt if you prefered as it is a great single target power on a brute.
Hope it helps in some way.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.704
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Super Strength
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Medicine
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(5), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(7), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(7), RedFtn-Def(9), RedFtn-EndRdx(9)
Level 2: Focused Senses -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(11), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(11), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(13), RedFtn-Def(13), RedFtn-EndRdx(15)
Level 4: Agile -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(15), LkGmblr-Def(17), LkGmblr-Rchg+(17)
Level 6: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 8: Knockout Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(21), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(21), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Lock-Acc/Rchg(25)
Level 10: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(27), Ksmt-ToHit+(27)
Level 14: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(19), Numna-Heal(29), Mrcl-Rcvry+(31), RgnTis-Regen+(31), Mrcl-Heal(33)
Level 16: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 18: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(19), Aegis-Psi/Status(29), Aegis-ResDam(33), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(34), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(31), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(36), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(36)
Level 22: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(36), LkGmblr-Rchg+(37), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 24: Dodge -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(39)
Level 26: Evasion -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(40), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 28: Lucky -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(40)
Level 30: Rage -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-Build%(34), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(42), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(42), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(43), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(43)
Level 32: Foot Stomp -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(33), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(37), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), FrcFbk-Rechg%(40)
Level 35: Quickness -- Run-I(A)
Level 38: Aid Other -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Aid Self -- Numna-Heal/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(43), IntRdx-I(45), Numna-Heal(46), Mrcl-Heal(48)
Level 44: Gloom -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb(45), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(45), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(46), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 47: Haymaker -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(48), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(50), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Taunt -- Zinger-Dam%(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 4: Ninja Run
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
- 6.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 6.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 6.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 6.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 6.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 6.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 6.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 6.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 15.5% Defense(Smashing)
- 15.5% Defense(Lethal)
- 10.5% Defense(Fire)
- 10.5% Defense(Cold)
- 7.38% Defense(Energy)
- 7.38% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 11.1% Defense(Melee)
- 11.8% Defense(Ranged)
- 13.3% Defense(AoE)
- 27% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 30% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 10% FlySpeed
- 236.1 HP (15.8%) HitPoints
- 10% JumpHeight
- 10% JumpSpeed
- MezResist(Immobilize) 12.7%
- 18.5% (0.31 End/sec) Recovery
- 66% (4.13 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 5.02% Resistance(Fire)
- 2.52% Resistance(Cold)
- 3.13% Resistance(Negative)
- 3% Resistance(Psionic)
- 15% RunSpeed
- 2.5% XPDebtProtection
Code:
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That build is truly horrible Jay-dee.
How can I spend most cash for least effect, kinetic combats have no place in positional defence builds, and punch/haymaker horribly underslotted at a cost of several hundred million.
I don't have the time to tweak it atm, but that is not a build to follow.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
This is the SS/SR brute that I'm working towards. Five of the attacks (Punch, Boxing, Foot Stomp, Gloom, Dark Obliteration) have a purple set in their alternate slotting. The non-purple build is what he'll look like at 50, the purpled build is what he'll eventually look like when I have billions worth of purples.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.703
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Kobushi: Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Super Strength
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Punch
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
- (3) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
- (3) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (5) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (5) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (7) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (7) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (9) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (13) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (9) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (11) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (11) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (13) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
- (15) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
- (15) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (17) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (17) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Run Speed IO
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
- (34) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
- (34) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (36) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (36) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (50) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
- (39) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
- (40) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (40) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (40) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration
- (42) Miracle - Heal
- (43) Miracle - +Recovery
- (43) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (50) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/Endurance
- (50) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
- (19) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
- (19) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
- (21) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
- (21) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
- (27) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
- (A) Endurance Modification IO
- (42) Performance Shifter - EndMod
- (42) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (23) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (23) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (25) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (34) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Defense Buff IO
- (25) Defense Buff IO
- (29) Defense Buff IO
- (A) Defense Buff IO
- (27) Defense Buff IO
- (33) Defense Buff IO
- (A) Defense Buff IO
- (29) Defense Buff IO
- (33) Defense Buff IO
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (31) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (31) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (31) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (33) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Multi Strike - Accuracy/Damage
- (36) Multi Strike - Damage/Endurance
- (37) Multi Strike - Accuracy/Endurance
- (37) Multi Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (37) Multi Strike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Defense Buff IO
- (39) Defense Buff IO
- (39) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (A) Run Speed IO
- (A) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage
- (43) Decimation - Damage/Endurance
- (46) Decimation - Damage/Recharge
- (46) Decimation - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (48) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (A) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
- (45) Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance
- (45) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge
- (45) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (46) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (48) Recharge Reduction IO
- (48) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
Level 4: Ninja Run
@Roderick
Not meaning to sound like im flaming here but the fact people seem to think brutes are redside tankers is the reason a lot of hero players dont make it past level 10.
Yes Brutes have tanker resists cap but not they dont have the same resists, basically its a more IO set friendly version of a scrapper, with fury instead of crits.
Brutes can tank very well but so can scrappers if built right, the main differences between the two are crits/fury, resists caps and aoe taunt vs single target taunt, thats about it.
Quote:
LOL|
Originally Posted by Silas
Compare a Tankers damage to a Brute, see how that works out.
|
Its true, brurtes arent tanks. They are scrappers but better.
We don't need tank numbers cuz if your a good brute everything is dead before it can pose a threat anyway
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
Quote:
That's because nothing stacks up to Tanker level defenses, base resistances or hit points.|
Originally Posted by Donna_
Ok so I have had a few tanks in my time and I am now turning my attention to making a brute... however i am having issues on mids making one as survivable as I am used to.
So far nothing seems to be as good as it's Tanker counter-part.... |
Nothing.
Of course, you're building a Brute, which means you will kill your enemies at a speed no tanker - no matter how well built - could even come remotely close to.
Your goal, building a brute, is to get "just enough" mitigation to survive your primary focus. Which is to kill things, quickly.
SR softcapped will allow you to be very survivable, but if you're looking to invest in a build and want something that "tanks" you might try Invuln, Willpower or Stone.
I won't play stone myself, but it does exactly as advertised.
Yeah def sticking with SR now...
Would anyone else be able to have a go at tweaking the builds that have been posted?
Want something that everyone agrees can't really be better.
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
Everyone's opinion on whats best is going to be different. I myself do not have any patron powers, simply because it did not fit my toons concept. There is a guide in the guide section that is a basic SS/SR. Not everyone agrees with the guide, but that's what's so great about opinions, everyone has one.
Here's a link to the guide.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...605#post768605
Willpower has more passive regen than Regen does. Who thought that was a good idea?
Can we get a fix for Energy Melee instead of more new sets?
Ok so thank you all for your help so far... and I have had a little tinker with all the suggestions... So here's where i'm at..
Oh and I thought it would a point to mention I am making a boxer theme... so i'm afraid gloom or any other patron don't really fit :S
but i'm proud of this so far...
Code:
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Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
Ha! My 1st brute just hit 22 last night.
He's also a boxer themed toon. Thing is, Gloom will fit perfectly with his concept. Being an undead servant brought to life by magic and all...
In 6 years of playing I've mainly rolled blasters and support types.
I'm finding this Brute to play like a Blaster with defense!!
Once Fury builds up that is.
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
Ok so I have had a few tanks in my time and I am now turning my attention to making a brute... however i am having issues on mids making one as survivable as I am used to.
So far nothing seems to be as good as it's Tanker counter-part....
(I know this is the way that it's meant to be.)
Any how, I had a bash as an SR build... can anyone better this, advise me, even suggest another set or pair of sets....
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.