City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Electric Control - From Dev Meet & Greet

Airhammer

By Airhammer,
Posted on: 2010-04-28 22:12 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Castle View Post
Pretty close. I can't say which bits are wrong, but...pretty darn close! The tier 4 "unique power" is quickly becoming one of my favorite powers in the game.
At least I know I wasn't imagining things - but PLEEEEEASE a couple more sneak peeks!

Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
Quote:
16. Has Paragon Studios redefined "player" to require your mouse to subscribe separately from your keyboard?
If your mouse has greater processing power than your gfx card, the answer is yes.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Castle View Post
Pretty close. I can't say which bits are wrong, but...pretty darn close! The tier 4 "unique power" is quickly becoming one of my favorite powers in the game.
How close is my suggestion? Particularly Re: End Drain.

If Elec Control doesn't use End Drain as a big part of it's mitigation, I will be very disappointed

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon View Post
I hope not. I hate all my experiences with End Drain being weak everywhere else in the game.
They could use it as an opportunity to make end drain useful.

A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!

 

Posted

My Blaster and Corruptor have no issue draining end. I find it a very useful tool.

The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.

If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina View Post
They could use it as an opportunity to make end drain useful.
I find it very useful on my elec/elec blapper. Hop in, Short Circuit and Power Sink and none (except bosses) can attack.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by DaveMebs View Post
I find it very useful on my elec/elec blapper. Hop in, Short Circuit and Power Sink and none (except bosses) can attack.
They could use it as an opportunity to make end drain useful for those who don't have Short Circuit, such as every elec powerset other than Elec Blast, or Power Sink.

Elec Melee
Elec Assault
Epic Pools

To do this it must be made non-binary in some way, such as attack debufs, which would improve it for others while having no effect for those who can drop enemy energy to 0.

A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina View Post
To do this it must be made non-binary in some way.
Making it non-binary is what would seem most likely to make it useless.

Most of the foes still have frightening attacks they can do even with almost no endurance left. That just doesn't cut it. Binary control is where its at (Confuse, Hold, Stun). Even the other forms of non-binary control (knockdown, slow) at least prevent a certain percentage of attacks from coming your way. But endurance drain only prevents some of the exotic attacks, however, you'll still eat full alpha. It will just be basic attack alpha, the stuff they can do with only 5 endurance left. But that is still too much incoming damage to be worth it.

They could make the endurance go to zero and STAY at zero for 10-20 seconds but at that point it may as well be a stun.

Now if they did something like make a "retributive endurance drain" ... something like a curse in which any time the enemy used endurance while cursed, they'd damage themselves moderately ... THAT would be a good unique power. But, you'd still want traditional types of control too. That way, you can EITHER lock them down OR make them damage themselves, or possibly both slow them and curse them.

Lewis

Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan

 

Posted

End drain is not a control power. It's a secondary effect of many other powers, which is why I proposed adding another type of debuff that is essentially mutually exclusive with it.

A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon View Post
Making it non-binary is what would seem most likely to make it useless.

Most of the foes still have frightening attacks they can do even with almost no endurance left. That just doesn't cut it. Binary control is where its at (Confuse, Hold, Stun). Even the other forms of non-binary control (knockdown, slow) at least prevent a certain percentage of attacks from coming your way. But endurance drain only prevents some of the exotic attacks, however, you'll still eat full alpha. It will just be basic attack alpha, the stuff they can do with only 5 endurance left. But that is still too much incoming damage to be worth it.

They could make the endurance go to zero and STAY at zero for 10-20 seconds but at that point it may as well be a stun.

Now if they did something like make a "retributive endurance drain" ... something like a curse in which any time the enemy used endurance while cursed, they'd damage themselves moderately ... THAT would be a good unique power. But, you'd still want traditional types of control too. That way, you can EITHER lock them down OR make them damage themselves, or possibly both slow them and curse them.

Lewis
I was thinking of a way to make it non-binary that would be numerically and most likely tangibly better than the way it currently operates.

I don't know how feasible this would be but (arbitrary numbers) I wouldn't mind testing out a system of end drain that operates through tiers of negations.
ie. Drain npc down to:
70% end and 1 random attack is greyed out and become unusable. It could be their brawl or it could be their KO blow. Random
50% end and a 2nd random attack is greyed
30% end and a 3rd random attack is locked out
20% 4th
10% 5th
0% as current

I think I'd start with a system that only counters "attacks", but who knows it could be expanded to include pretty much any power the NPC has.

That way it isn't an all-or-nothing set up like it pretty much is now and it would work a bit more consistently because even some powerful end sappers have issues keeping a mob floored constantly. It would also make set ups that can drain a bit of end, but nothing special (like elec melee/assault) get a bit more mileage out of that secondary effect. And a bit more predictable results when stacking -end sources rather than 100% danger vs 0% danger that it nearly is now.

Sort of make it work a bit more like -recharge where even a little bit actually does something and just like -rech as you get the target closer to the limit it becomes more and more potent.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa View Post
Well, there are pictures of them in the PaX east video.
Link would be great, i cant seem to find it. Thanks.

 

Posted

You could just run around Cap au Diable until you run into the Gremlins for an idea of what they'll look like.

 

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Originally Posted by Shadow State View Post
Sweet, ty/.

 

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Originally Posted by Frosticus View Post
Sort of make it work a bit more like -recharge where even a little bit actually does something and just like -rech as you get the target closer to the limit it becomes more and more potent.
That's a worthy goal but I don't think your system does that. Basically, unless they are absolutely floored (with your system) and stay there, they'll still have a base attack they can use cheaply, which means you can get full alpha. So, I don't really see how that'd make such a power a reliable main control.

Now, if they have a regular/reliable main control, such as a stun, but they also have an END drain power (say a toggle like RI that drains end around a foe target) then that'd be cool. Having a blend of hard and soft control is always nice.

Lewis

Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan

 

Posted

I just want it !!! Ive wanted this for 4 years now !!! I tried an Elec/Storm defender.. hated it.. made a Ice/Storm controller instead.. Loved it.. still wanted Elec/Storm as a controller.. but also possibilitiess. Elec/Rad... a whole Particle theme. sweet !!! Elec/Kin !!! Yes Yes !!!!!

oooh dare I say it in this forum... Elec/Elec Dominator !!!!

The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.

If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon View Post
That's a worthy goal but I don't think your system does that. Basically, unless they are absolutely floored (with your system) and stay there, they'll still have a base attack they can use cheaply, which means you can get full alpha. So, I don't really see how that'd make such a power a reliable main control.

Now, if they have a regular/reliable main control, such as a stun, but they also have an END drain power (say a toggle like RI that drains end around a foe target) then that'd be cool. Having a blend of hard and soft control is always nice.

Lewis
I don't mean what I said as a main form of control, I meant that is how I would change the endurance drain mechanic for everyone. Elec control is still going to need forms of hard/soft control which it will be getting regardless of endurance drain.

 

Posted

Chain Induction is one of my favorite abilities - I hope the set sees some kind of effect that bounces similarly.

As for Endurance drain being more useful without being binary, I don't see why it would have to be super complicated. Just a few ideas:

-enemies deal less damage at lower endurance levels, starting when they drop under x%

-give elec control debuff or two which (-rech, -dam, -hit, -def, -whatever) scales in strength inversely with the target's endurance level

-add a damage bonus onto attacks against low endurance targets, or create a specific pet/attack which does bonus damage to said low end targets

-the elec pet could prioritize targets by lowest end level, giving you some measure of control over your pet, which would be unique amongst controllers/MMs

-rather than focus all attacks towards the lowest end target, just one of the elec pet's attacks could be a periodic lightning bolt which follows the low end targeting scheme

-targets under x% endurance don't count consume one of the total bounces of previously mentioned chain induction-type attack. So say the AoE hold power elec control gets is actually 10 target max, moderate range single-targeted attack which bounces like chain induction, and 5 of 15 enemies are under the end threshold, you could hold all 15 targets, assuming the bounce didn't pick an extremely inopportune sequence (have them prioritize the lowest end targets to make it more reliable).

-the elec pet gains a stacking damage buff any time endurance is drained nearby, perhaps including drain from its own electrical attacks

-all mobs are changed to do 10x current damage at full endurance, and lose 10% damage every time you drop their endurance by 10, making 0-10 endurance mobs do normal damage. (yes this is a joke)

...and so on and so on. I think there's plenty of room to work with when it comes to endurance drain, and it doesn't have to be focused exclusively on control.

 

Posted

Things I want;

A Chain induction esque move, but with a bigger jump range, even if it was like Blind in Illusion Control, whci hhas a small chance of putting to Sleep a nearby enemy. But something with a bit more visual umph.

Also A Lightning Rod-esque Tele-PBAoE-Hold would be friggin awesome.

Elec/Kin, Elec/Rad, Elec/Storm - yeah, its gonna be a busy time for me in GR....

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl View Post
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega_Jamie View Post
Things I want;

A Chain induction esque move, but with a bigger jump range, even if it was like Blind in Illusion Control, whci hhas a small chance of putting to Sleep a nearby enemy. But something with a bit more visual umph.

Also A Lightning Rod-esque Tele-PBAoE-Hold would be friggin awesome.

Elec/Kin, Elec/Rad, Elec/Storm - yeah, its gonna be a busy time for me in GR....
I definitely agree with a chain induction type move, and while I think it'd be really neat for it to be the set's bread and butter control move, assuming the delay between bounces wouldn't leave you too open to alpha strikes (it'd need a pretty good range).

Actually I'd be pretty stoked if the majority of the set's moves used that mechanic.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega_Jamie View Post
Things I want;

A Chain induction esque move, but with a bigger jump range, even if it was like Blind in Illusion Control, whci hhas a small chance of putting to Sleep a nearby enemy. But something with a bit more visual umph.

Also A Lightning Rod-esque Tele-PBAoE-Hold would be friggin awesome.

Elec/Kin, Elec/Rad, Elec/Storm - yeah, its gonna be a busy time for me in GR....
If Electric Control got a Teleport attack and a chain attack...the set would go from "meh" for me, to "OMG I MUST CHECK IT OUT"...

..that would just be to much awesome!

BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
If Electric Control got a Teleport attack and a chain attack...the set would go from "meh" for me, to "OMG I MUST CHECK IT OUT"...

..that would just be to much awesome!
Well other sets have PBAoE control attacks which, for best effect require you to wade into the middle of the mob, bringing Illusion into my argument again, this provides this type of control, and gives you a choice of 2 powers which will negate any chance of an alpha strike against you before you use it (the 2 stealth powers)

So I think mimicing the 2 really cool mechanics of ELM would certainly be possible, and wouldnt necessarily be OP.

and would then bring people who arnt stoked about the idea of electric control whatever it contains to the table, just to check out it's mechanics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl View Post
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega_Jamie View Post
Things I want;

A Chain induction esque move, but with a bigger jump range, even if it was like Blind in Illusion Control, whci hhas a small chance of putting to Sleep a nearby enemy. But something with a bit more visual umph.

Also A Lightning Rod-esque Tele-PBAoE-Hold would be friggin awesome.

Elec/Kin, Elec/Rad, Elec/Storm - yeah, its gonna be a busy time for me in GR....

well they already have something like that coded in the game. Just look at the attack done by a blue mito. It can jump from a target to another until there is no target and the range is pretty long. also it drains endurance iirc. The PBAOE end drain field from the mito would also make a nice "lightning field" kinda like the confuse aura.

 

Posted

When something's nervous system stops functioning correctly, which a sudden or sustained electric shock can easily bring about, every single function performed by their metabolism (or their circuits, for machines) is likely to function less well.

In addition to the effects usually associated with electricity in COX, electricity could easily be argued to reduce perception, reduce mob to hit values, reduce mob damage, reduce agility-based defenses, reduce movement and attack recharge rates, reduce regeneration rates, reduce recovery rates, and cause knockdown. Of course, putting mobs to sleep would make sense as an addition to one or more of this menu of control options. A buff to the recovery rate of friendlies could also make sense, much like spirit tree, only in a more "electric" kind of way.

To date, -endurance and -recovery have been the primary negative effects associated with electricity, with holds and sleeps also in the mix. But, a character based around electric control could quite easily bring more to the table than that.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired Angel View Post
Now I will probably get shot down for this for not having the quote (I am such an idiot for not having my chat log switched on!) - hopefully one of the other EU players will be able to help me - but something I think Castle said about Electric Control on the EU test server last night was that half the powers are completely different to any other control set.

For me that got me quite excited
*raises hand*

I asked the question about how unique Electric Control was going to be (specifically if it'd have fancy looks like Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning did), and Castle said the animations weren't that unique, but the actual powers were indeed very different.

~union4lyfe~